Shockman Prices?

[ProfessorProfessorson]

I saw a couple sell on eBay this year for <$30. The only two copies if Turbo Dynastic Hero that I've seen listed on eBay at all this year both sold for $50. Unfortunately, eBay shortened the completed listing history to favor gouging.

Shockman is one of the formally overpriced Turbo games that has been steadily coming down in price in gouging circles for a while now. Just like how noobs used to believe that $70 was the cheapest you could expect to find Air Zonk for, which now also sells for $20 - $30 on eBay.

Yeah about the $30 or less thing, I posted a link above. They have a record of every auction that has taken place for this year, and you can still view all of those. The price has not been steadily coming down. Instead it has maintained a high average that is too erratic to pick a solid going rate. Ebay doesn't ditch the auctions or anything completely, they just remove the ability to dig back only so far using their own user based internal search engine. Otherwise you are fine to view stuff via other search engines, you just cant view anything past 2012 with the link I posted above, which is why I asked.

Yeah a couple have ended in the 30 and below range, one in March, one in May. Did it set a new pricing trend though, nope, not a chance. I did a list of all of the auction amounts ended this year for the game that actually sold, along with their end bid amounts, month, and if it was sold via BID or BIN. Only 5 were sold via BIN prices, the majority of which were low priced. The rest, the other 13 copies, were sold via auction bids. The bidders clearly decided the going amount, not the seller. Due to that you can hardly blame the going rate on the seller, or label them a gouger. It would be like accusing yourself of the same for selling Ys 3 for over $260 when you had no play what so ever in the end auction amount.

20-30 range
-----------
36.00 May BIDS
24.00 Mar BIN
-------------
40 range
------------
41.00 Sep BIDS
39.99 Aug BIN
46.99 July BIDS
39.99 July BIDS
40.00 July BIN
41.75 May BIDS
------------
50 range
------------
49.99 Jun BIDS
51.06 Aug BIDS
52.00 Feb BIN
------------
60 range
------------
67.52 Jul BIDS
66.00 Jun BIDS
-----------
70 -80 range
-----------
76.99 Jul BIDS
79.99 Mar BIN
-----------
100 on up
-----------
102.50 Aug BIDS
102.50 Aug  BIDS (two times, two diff sellers and items, end amount the same, I know right?)
118.50 May BIDS

5 sold via BIN
13 sold via BIDS

[vestcoat]

The only other choice you have is to hold out and wait and maybe something will happen like what happened with Exile and Cosmic Fantasy 2, where a sudden influx of new sealed copies hit the market for cheap. While highly unlikely, it is possible.

Those copies were old stock from Working Designs. The chance of that happening again is basically nil. There are still a few big European sellers with piles of sealed games, but they seem to be well aware of their worth.

I saw a couple sell on eBay this year for <$30. The only two copies if Turbo Dynastic Hero that I've seen listed on eBay at all this year both sold for $50. Unfortunately, eBay shortened the completed listing history to favor gouging.

Shockman is one of the formally overpriced Turbo games that has been steadily coming down in price in gouging circles for a while now. Just like how noobs used to believe that $70 was the cheapest you could expect to find Air Zonk for, which now also sells for $20 - $30 on eBay.

Those $50 Dynastic Heroes were both unrelated BIN flukes that sold within seconds. Encouraging, but hardly a gauge of the game's worth. There was an auction this year that went for about $400. I remember seeing it and being encouraged by the relative lack of inflation because bought my copy for slightly less back in 2007 (dirty secret).

I agree with you on Shockman and Air Zonk. They haven't come down in price, but they've been all over the place for years. On a bad day, a CIB copy can fetch a $100 from an idiot in a bidding war and it's back to $50 the next. Boxless copies have always been affordable for the patient buyer. The only hucards that have continued to grow and seem to be genuinely rare are the '93 releases.

Yeah a couple have ended in the 30 and below range, one in March, one in May. Did it set a new pricing trend though, nope, not a chance. I did a list of all of the auction amounts ended this year for the game that actually sold, along with their end bid amounts, month, and if it was sold via BID or BIN.

Very nice list. I think most people would agree with your interpretation of the data, but personally I'm a very patient buyer and I err on lower side. IME, erratic price fluctuations on ebay are nothing new. I generally wait six months before buying an expensive game and use the lowest auction within that period to determine a real value.  

[Lost Monkey]

-----------
102.50 Aug BIDS
102.50 Aug  BIDS (two times, two diff sellers and items, end amount the same, I know right?)

Looking at the auctions - one was CIB and the other was manual and card only in generic jewel.   Big difference, same price...

[vestcoat]

BTW Professor, since you were gone awhile, I would say that most PCEFX grognards and f*ckEbay members follow some kind of lowest-price-in-recent-memory method when appraising games. "Recent" being the relative term. I go back a year or so; Black Tiger seems to go back several years; Nat seems to be frozen in 1995. All of this causes considerable debate with noobs when they try to flip last month's purchases.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

-----------
102.50 Aug BIDS
102.50 Aug  BIDS (two times, two diff sellers and items, end amount the same, I know right?)

Looking at the auctions - one was CIB and the other was manual and card only in generic jewel.   Big difference, same price...

Yeah exactly, big difference but odd they both managed to land at the exact same end auction amount. Random chance I guess.

Very nice list. I think most people would agree with your interpretation of the data, but personally I'm a very patient buyer and I err on lower side. IME, erratic price fluctuations on ebay are nothing new. I generally wait six months before buying an expensive game and use the lowest auction within that period to determine a real value.  

I can totally understand and relate with this. I am like that a lot, esp with games that I have never played before, or have not played in years because I don't want to risk throwing money away on a title I may not enjoy so much. Basically at times like that I give what I am willing to pay if the seller already sets a low price. But I dont like to do  low ball offers to people either. I don't like it done to me and I wont do it to others.

This other thing I want to mention, and I'm sure it will bother people and all, but I mean, why the f*ck do people bother maintaining a thread solely dedicated to just bitching about what a seller decides to price a game at. I can see maybe making light of it, a joke or two maybe in different threads, but I mean simply move on after that. Its not like anyone is actually forcing you to buy it at said price or anything. You may not like the price of girl scout cookies because Wal-Mart sells cheaper ones, but I don't see anyone maintaining huge rants about the Girl Scouts of America price gouging some damn thin mint cookies, nor any phone campaigns being started to bitch them out.

It just gets to the point that its silly. Therese better shit to worry about then ranting and raving about sellers prices, like ones who ripped people off, or don't deliver items as described. If some seller wants to price some game at some godly amount you are not willing to pay, who cares. Eventually no one will bite and he will have to lower his price or just be stuck with it. Its no skin off your back until you start stressing over it needlessly. And I mean its not like people here don't jack prices up either (Not namin names, but seriously, 30 for SCI, 35 for Gradius, 100 for Double Dragon 2???). I mean its to there its at a point like people feel they need to look for some bad guy from afar to point fingers at, and you don't really. Theres been plenty of bad guys and price gougers posting here off and on to stress over as is, and far more serious shit to worry about.

EDIT:

BTW Professor, since you were gone awhile, I would say that most PCEFX grognards and f*ckEbay members follow some kind of lowest-price-in-recent-memory method when appraising games. "Recent" being the relative term. I go back a year or so; Black Tiger seems to go back several years; Nat seems to be frozen in 1995. All of this causes considerable debate with noobs when they try to flip last month's purchases.

Yeah I dont do that. I like hard data to base my prices off of, and then if I am in the mood, which I usually am, if its a community related sale I am usually good with 80-90 percent of the average going rate off the hard data. Just a habit of mine. I'm pretty cool with people till they start sticking me with low ball crap.

Almost forgot.
http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Shockman-TurboGrafx16-1992-/56236178?_refkw=shockman&_pcatid=2&rt=nc&_pcategid=139973&_pdpal=1&_dmpt=Video_Games_Games

Currently those  two listed there are what I would consider far past extreme for this game. Hopefully no one here jumps on them, but if so, whatever.

[Black Tiger]

I literally have very little time onlibe and am limited by what I can pist from my phone and much of this has been discussed in the past. "Trends" and peak prices only matter to sellers. Thd premium you pay for a game at a high price is for time. You are paying to obtain the gane NOW. If price for someone isn't much of a factor in buying a game, then it doesn't really matter the highs and lows. If it does, then as a buyer, only the lower end matters and if it's still too high, then the market shrinks further as there is yet one more less potential buyer.

Sealed game collectibles are conpletely independant of games to pkay values. Sealed gane prices only reflect real game prices to an extent when they aren't far off of compkete prices and this is often the case with lower priced games. If a sealed copy if a game sells fir ten times what the saje game goes for with case and manual, then it is part if a purely collectiboe market and ceases to be a game as the buyers are making sure that it literally will never be played. It is a plastic wrapped box. If the manufacturer screwed up and inserted the wrong game or no game, it still doesn't matter as it will not be opened or utilized.

What exactly does the source of those stats track? An official eBay UPC scan of a product like "Shockman TurboGrafx-16 game (1993)" or whatever, with the stock description and pic? Or is it an AI that gathers all the random listing like Shockman, Shock Man, and the many unique spellings of Turbo-Graphics16?

Anyway, this past year I happened to decide to pickup the rest of the Turbo HuCards I didn't already have and got all but one of them. This led me to see what most games have been going tor from a buyer's perspective. Too many times I saw games sell two or three times for what some would call "flukes" and then decide to finally seriously try to buy it. Only to hit a period of extra high prices and/or few listings. Reading what someone/thing posts and considering it hard data over what soneone else posts is fine. But my hard data has been what I personally witnessed this year. I was actually very surprised by how often it would come up for some reason and I'd check and there would he several Air Zonks both sold and available with BINs in the $20's and $30's.

The fluke with Dynastic Hero is finding one for sale at all. If the lack of listings creates a lack of reference for sellers and that leads to low BIN listings, it doesn't matter how things would be if all copies were already in the hands of gougers. That would he the fantasy, while the current situation, no matter how illogical to some, has been favoring the "fluke" scenario.

It seems like Necromancer has to say it once a week, but if this thread doesn't interest anyone, no one is forcing them to read or post. I am not interested in most of what goes on in Fighting Street and therefore don't post much there. What's the point of joining a discussion you see no point in to ask what's the point? It's true there ard better things to discuss... but they are also being discussed. This thread doesn't negate others. I've thought of doing a low selling price thread in the past, but as others have explained before, this thread already works as a general discussion of pricing for buyers (not sellers).

[ProfessorProfessorson]

I believe how it tracks it is via the name of the game, along with some variations on how it would be spelled and if the system name was in the title. About the only way it wouldn't be able to spot a auction is if the name was horribly misspelled, and if that ends up being the case, even the ebay search engine would fail at finding the game while it was currently listed. It also checks Amazon.com and Half. Currently there is "one" loose hu-card copy up on Amazon.com of Shockman for 49.99, with free shipping.

Air Zonk, in contrast to Shockman, has maintained a average price in the $30-40 range this year, via both BIDS and BIN, which is pretty reasonable all in all considering the quality of the game. It is also listed far more frequently then Shockman. Usually during the month there is 5-10 copies listed at any given time for Air Zonk, for both BID and BIN prices, and not all of them sell, where as when Shockman gets listed, it sells 98 percent of the time unless the price is just way way too crazy. The irony of all that is that Air Zonk is a far far better game then Shockman.

[turboswimbz]

Hmmm thanks guys, I really hadn't considered many of things brought up here.  I think what I'm seeing, and what I'm having issues with is 1) why exactly prices went haywire in the last 12 months or so, most likely it's just the influx of collectors and 2) and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming.  Video games are fun, period.  They are not life or death.  It just seems a little bit crazy for me to see these games bounce all over the place as there seems to be a scamble for them, and then for there to be people very personally upset over it.  I guess my breaking point was a couple of days ago when I was in a retro electronic/music store and the worker told me that it was unfair for me to offer anything less the current prices on e-bay auctions and amazon, and continually got upset over it when I suggested that he was wrong and I wouldn't buy anything.  And another guy in line was cursing at him, and trying to get me involved in some sort of match with this guy.  Needless to say I left about :10 later.
*screw ebay screw gougers screw those who can't have fun with games*   
      I like to hold out, myself and get what I think is a fair or good price for games, which is why I was posting about shockman, got an offer to buy a loose for 50 at said store and passed for now.   

[ProfessorProfessorson]

It seems like Necromancer has to say it once a week, but if this thread doesn't interest anyone, no one is forcing them to read or post. I am not interested in most of what goes on in Fighting Street and therefore don't post much there. What's the point of joining a discussion you see no point in to ask what's the point? It's true there ard better things to discuss... but they are also being discussed. This thread doesn't negate others. I've thought of doing a low selling price thread in the past, but as others have explained before, this thread already works as a general discussion of pricing for buyers (not sellers).

I think you are confusing this thread with the "ebay gouging much" thread, which I dont read much in except once in a blue moon for the reasons I stated above, because I don't care to stress over what people on ebay price stuff at if its too high for me. No one has stated there was no point to this thread, and no one is ragging on any specific sellers in here. This thread is actually pretty productive so far in general. Hard data has been posted and the discussion is good.

[turboswimbz]

I didn't mean for this to be a gouging thread, or selling thread anyway, I was really just looking into why I saw the big jump.  It in no way should be a comment on gouging but rather in pricing in general.  As well as how rare the game acutally is looking on as buyer.  there are many things that could be said and posted regarding this I am sure. 
  I am really trying to collect as many games as I can, while I can, and trying to come up with a realistic view of why I am seeing such sporadic and trending up of prices. I'm sure in a few weeks this thread shall be forgotten.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming.  Video games are fun, period.  They are not life or death.

/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby.  Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.

If anything, if you feel you just have to take some action concerning the matter, you can try to make a clean attempt to educate said seller, extend a olive branch of sorts, show them some solid evidence of what said game actually goes for ( dont just pm them saying "dude, are you a f*cking idiot, this game goes for like 20 bucks, I know cuz like I saw it go for that much like last week and stuff bro"), then leave the ball in their court. If they persist, then just ignore and continue on. Its no big deal. It's on them, not you.

[Lost Monkey]

and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming.  Video games are fun, period.  They are not life or death.

/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby.  Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.

If anything, if you feel you just have to take some action concerning the matter, you can try to make a clean attempt to educate said seller, extend a olive branch of sorts, show them some solid evidence of what said game actually goes for ( dont just pm them saying "dude, are you a f*cking idiot, this game goes for like 20 bucks, I know cuz like I saw it go for that much like last week and stuff bro"), then leave the ball in their court. If they persist, then just ignore and continue on. Its no big deal. It's on them, not you.

Agreed, for the most part.

Bottom line is, if a game is super expensive, and one wants to play it, you could always just fork over the cash for it and then sell it when you are done.

Unless you are a collector, in which case, you are generally going to have to get used to separating yourself from your money.

[turboswimbz]

and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming.  Video games are fun, period.  They are not life or death.

/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby.  Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.

If anything, if you feel you just have to take some action concerning the matter, you can try to make a clean attempt to educate said seller, extend a olive branch of sorts, show them some solid evidence of what said game actually goes for ( dont just pm them saying "dude, are you a f*cking idiot, this game goes for like 20 bucks, I know cuz like I saw it go for that much like last week and stuff bro"), then leave the ball in their court. If they persist, then just ignore and continue on. Its no big deal. It's on them, not you.

ahhhhhhhhh just came back to edit that in! thanks professor, and btw hope i haven't lowballed you on the trading. 

[vestcoat]

why the f*ck do people bother maintaining a thread solely dedicated to just bitching about what a seller decides to price a game at.

The gouging thread doesn't require maintaining! It's a self-perpetuating, life-giving, well of hate. Once a week Necro tells a re-seller to GTFO and it grows another twenty pages. It's miraculous.

You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby.   (emphasis added)

There is an annoying element of OMG! Perpetual shock! in the gouging thread. Some contributors seem to have nothing better to do than surf ebay all day and get in a huff over what should be a fact of life. I appreciate the links they post, but I don't always understand the high degree of emotional investment. High prices on ebay? Does a bear shit in the woods?

You mention an important point in your last line - most of us (I hope) see Turbo gaming as a hobby. Where the gouging thread really shines IMO is combating the increasingly prevalent business mentality. I may not care too much about individual prices, but nothing gets my goat like collector noobs talking about their "investments" and calculating inflation, or mentioning how "re-sellers deserve a 10-20% profit margin", or how "I bought it for $150 last year, so I'm asking $280". People are entitled to believe these things, but it's a real slap in the face when they're PCEFX members and not anonymous sellers trying to screw strangers on ebay.

It would be one thing if these "free market" advocates would keep to ebay, repair their own systems, figure out which games don't have cases, buy games at ebay prices, and be the rugged individuals they pretend to be, but after they've gotten all chummy and asked us for help and repair advice and appraisals and entered raffles and asked a million dumb, annoying questions, the last thing I want to hear is some f*cking lecture about how the act of owning a game for a few months increases its value.

Yes, the TG16 is a hobby and I love it. And nothing adds stress to a hobby like a bunch of investors and resellers trying to make a living by doing nothing.

And whatever your opinion of the gouging thread, it is a good place to fight with some of the most annoying members here.

[DarkKobold]

and I think this is what the professor was getting at, people who take the fun out of gaming.  Video games are fun, period.  They are not life or death.

/\THIS/\
I just hate seeing people get all upset over high prices on a item that isn't a necessity in life. If you really want to get pissed, get pissed at how the cost of food has gone up, but how the minimum wage barely has and is not able to match it. You see sumthings price is crazy high, cool, make fun of it, its cool to laugh and make a joke or two out of it, and a sellers stupidity to boot. But I mean, don't get all pissed off and crap, ranting for pages on end. Its just emotionally un-healthy for anyone to do that, and it adds stress to what is a otherwise enjoyable hobby.  Regardless of how angry you get, the seller isn't going to change his price. Sending them angry or harassing pms about their prices wont help matters either.

Thank you! Finally, said quite eloquently.

Bottom line is, if a game is super expensive, and one wants to play it, you could always just fork over the cash for it and then sell it when you are done.

Thank you for posting this - I believe this is more likely the eBay mentality of people spending far too much on games, than the paranoid delusion that there is an evil network of resellers buying all the TG stuff to hold on to it. There is even a term in economics for this.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

That said, this is what leads to bubbles popping. People paying $100 each for Shockman are in for a shock when it corrects itself back to a more reasonable price based on rarity and desirability (c'mon, the game is programmed so poorly, it f*cks up the composite signal.)

Also, anyone thinking that people are buying games at current, full prices off ebay, and then immediately reposts it for 15% higher is a fool. The math doesn't work out. Here is a primer. Ebay takes 16% off the top of the first $50, and 8% off the remaining up to $1,000. Now, if you buy a copy of Shockman for $100, you need to sell it for Approximately $115 just to make your money back. That would be dumb.