Whats the name of and where can I find the video that has all the islamic people

[roflmao]

Oh, geez.  That scared me.  I saw a Regal post and thought he was back for a second. 

Welcome back, rag-time4!

[rag-time4]

Oh, geez.  That scared me.  I saw a Regal post and thought he was back for a second. 

Welcome back, rag-time4!

ROFLMAO Thanks for the greeting!

After the assassination of the US ambassador in Benghazi, Libya, the situation is at least getting some coverage.... Though sadly its mostly coming from the right - with only a superficial treatment of the issue. One thing thats coming out is that the mass killings that were blamed on the government troops for propaganda purposes were actually perpetrated by the Islamist rebels:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/10/16/libya-new-proof-mass-killings-gaddafi-death-site

[HercTNT]

Funny really, good old Gadhafi sponsored the bombing of pan am flight 103 over lockerbie scotland. A civilian aircraft. Before he died, Gadhafi welcomed home the man responsible for the bombing as a national hero. Gadhafi was also responsible for selling arms and ammunition to the IRA who were using them on civilian targets. I don't know about the rest of whats going on over there, but tell me rag-time, in regards to Gadhafi, how do you demonize a demon?  This is kinda like your other rant, you say that you don't believe in or condone this kinda behavior, yet you feel that Gadhafi was unjustly demonized? Are you not aware of how much blood he has on his hands? You live in this country right. If were so bad, and guys like Gadhafi are so good, what are you doing here?

[rag-time4]

Funny really, good old Gadhafi sponsored the bombing of pan am flight 103 over lockerbie scotland. A civilian aircraft. Before he died, Gadhafi welcomed home the man responsible for the bombing as a national hero. Gadhafi was also responsible for selling arms and ammunition to the IRA who were using them on civilian targets. I don't know about the rest of whats going on over there, but tell me rag-time, in regards to Gadhafi, how do you demonize a demon?  This is kinda like your other rant, you say that you don't believe in or condone this kinda behavior, yet you feel that Gadhafi was unjustly demonized? Are you not aware of how much blood he has on his hands? You live in this country right. If were so bad, and guys like Gadhafi are so good, what are you doing here?

I dont believe Muammar Gadhafi sponsored the Lockerbie bombing at all. I believe his position was that the conviction was a bad one, and that the Libyan who was released should never have been imprisoned because he was not guilty.

I dont believe Muammar Gadhafi was a demon at all. Quite the contrary, he was always pushed his country to invest in African development as well as African political integration. I dont know much about Libyas relationship with the IRA, but I would be interested in reading about it. On the US side, I know that Ronald Reagan supported Saddam Hussein, and also continued Jimmy Carters policy of arming and supporting Osama Bin laden and other islamist extremists in Afghanistan as they fought the USSR.

During the W Bush administration, Libya agreed to partner with the US in fighting Islamist terrorism, and dismantled its WMD programs. Libyan citizens had access to universal higher education, housing, and healthcare under the former socialist government and the country had no national debt... though the citizens did not enjoy high standards of individual liberty. Libya was willing to partner against Islamist terrorism because the terrorists are/were the most bitter enemies of the former government.

Under the former government, Libya had the highest material standard of living in all Africa by many measures, such as literacy etc.

Why should I leave simply because I dont like the policies my country is undertaking? Id rather do my part to try to change things... Thats what democracy is supposed to be about!!

Anyway, with regards to Muammar Gadhafi, how can you demonize someone who did so much good? You say openly you dont actually know much about the situation in Libya... My position is that the bulk of the rebel fighters, and likely all of the leadership, are in fact terrorists. All of the mass killings we heard so much about that were blamed on the government were in fact committed by the rebels - and in addition, the soldiers and security personnel showed a pattern of restraint, including the early days of the rebellion before NATO bombs started falling.

[HercTNT]

You must be trolling, you have to be. The whole reason we helped remove him from power, at the request of france and germany, was because he was shooting his own people. Now thats what i call a saint. As for the IRA, he publicly supported them. If you knew what you were saying at all, you would be aware of that. Go read up on it, then come back and tell me how great he is.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Along the lines of what Emerald Rocker was saying... There has been some talk that the assassination may have been carried out by Jamahiriya (Libya's former government) supporters. Despite the lack of coverage in the mainstream media, the civil war in Libya remains ongoing. I think the widespread support for the former government, which is particularly strong in western Libya, wont get a lot of coverage. With the demonization of Muammar Gadhafi, the installation of a puppet regime by NATO has been presented as some kind of sick victory for NATO and US foreign policy...

I'm confused, just in what way does a over a year old reporting video have any bearing on the current situation exactly? Could you not find any recent news report compilations to better reflect the current situation? A year old video doesn't exactly confirm anything, and to be honest, you are talking almost as if you are reporting from ground zero. WTF are you, some kind of weekend warrior reporter all the sudden, similar to Geraldo, except commenting from afar in your den where its safe? You going to do a PCEFX special news report, show us where Gadhafi's hidden vaults are next, and film it in your backyard?  

And look, all things considered, I really was not for getting involved in another conflict on that side of the world. Considering how spread thin we are economically and military wise, from that POV alone it seemed like a bad idea. And I didn't want us to just hand a victory over to a upstart group we did not know much about, so for me, our country jumping into yet another conflict on another's behalf so soon seemed like a bad idea. But regardless, it would have been in poor taste to just sit aside and do nothing while so many civilians were being killed when we could actually help prevent it to some degree.

I mean f*ck Rags, demonizing Gadhafi, really, are you f*cking kidding me? The guy didn't need anyone to demonize him. He built his own notoriety up on his own over the years. By stating that demonizing bit, you kind of downplay every victim that had fallen to him, his regime,  and his death squads. Every rape perpetrated by them. Every crime ever committed, every murder. And there has been more then enough people to come forward to the press to testify about said crimes. You think half the country just came down with a sudden spell of delusions concerning all that crap, or that so many people would just lie about that shit? You think the mass graves filled with corpses with bullet wounds made themselves over the years? You think you could honestly confront some of these victims family members and say "Gadhafi was demonized" and come away with a clear conscience?

And as Herc said, you hate living here, gtfo. Go move to Iran, or Syria for that matter, and let us know how much better it is over there after you have spent a year or two in said countries. I anxiously await your report on ground zero Rags Muslim Paradise and how f*cking epic it is there for you. I'm not Capt. America by any means, but seriously Rags, you sound like a moronic poser. The f*cking anti US rhetoric from confused, white, weekend warrior Muslims, who grew up comfortably in the very same country they seem to despise, who think they know exactly how it really is in parts of the world they have never once visited, who have never bled nor sweated for no one else's cause, let alone their own, outside of standing in line for the next game system release, gets pretty f*cking old rather f*cking fast.

[Emerald Rocker]

Just popping in to say "I told you so! (a month ago)" to anyone who didn't believe me, when I said that a Youtube video was *not* the cause of all this.

[rag-time4]

You must be trolling, you have to be. The whole reason we helped remove him from power, at the request of france and germany, was because he was shooting his own people. Now thats what i call a saint. As for the IRA, he publicly supported them. If you knew what you were saying at all, you would be aware of that. Go read up on it, then come back and tell me how great he is.

The people being shot were attacking military sites. From the beginning of the uprising, the terrorists attacked police stations and army barracks etc with the aim of stealing weapons. Herc, you seem totally ignorant of the accomplishments of the Jamahiriya government, you only mention things you find negative. Even if true, Gadhafi's public support of the IRA is certainly comparable to the US support of Saddam Hussein, Osama bin ladin, up to the Saudi crushing violently the uprising in Bahrain: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/bahrain/index.html

You accuse Gadhafi of personally shooting his own people as if he was walking around with a rifle gunning people down simply for daring to protest. You neglect to acknowledge the fact that the rebellion in Libya was a violent uprising from the beginning, and many police and soldiers lost their lives as well - some victims of mass execution.

To say that "I must be trolling" is a weak, cowardly personal attack. Are you so terrified of an opposing, evidence-based viewpoint, that you cant respond in a more tolerant, intellectual manner? The civil war in Libya is a fairly major historical event, which is still unfolding with US involvement. My goal is not to incite you or anyone else... My goal is only to present an alternative view to counter the massive lies and propaganda pumped out by the mainstream.

Prof, I posted that older video because it shows a clear pattern of behavior among the rebel terrorists, complementing the Human Rights Watch report that came out only a few days ago.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/10/16/libya-new-proof-mass-killings-gaddafi-death-site

The report itself is written with an anti-Gaddafi slant, yet documents substantial evidence showing that the rebels were guilty of atrocity and war crimes.

Here is an excellent 2-part video, about 20 minutes total, which shows evidence of several key points: 1) Jamahiriya troops showed a pattern of restraint, and by and large only shot people in self defense 2) The rebellion was violent almost from the beginning, and showed strong signs of being a pre-planned, coordinated effort (contrary to the propaganda that taking up arms was spontaneous) 3) Rebel terrorists had a clear pattern of executing captives on mass, including non-uniformed captives 4) Rebel terrorists, after seizing weapons from government police stations and barracks, dug themselves in within various city centers, effectively taking large numbers of civilians hostage, and providing useful fuel for propaganda that the government troops were attacking civilians when it can clearly be argued that the government was trying to protect the citizens from violence at the hands of armed gangs and islamist terrorists. (Black civilians were particularly vulnerable)

Video part 1:
Video part 2:

Prof, you accuse me of anti-US rhetoric, yet you slam the Libyan Jamihirya as though it had no supporters and no accomplishments. Why pretend that the US doesnt have a mixed record, like any other country? The US should improve on her shortfalls the same as any other nation, yet when criticism is brought up by someone like me, I get demonized as well ... Told to "gtfo" etc... And you want me to move to Syria (currently under attack by US/NATO backed terrorists) or Iran (next in the US firing line)....

Here is neo-conservative commentator glenn beck in a recent video explaining how the US is working with terrorists in Lybia and Syria:

Glenn Beck is certainly not muslim. Does he hate America for daring to say that the US is supporting terrorists? Biggest problem with Beck and others is theyre playing too much into the broken 2-party system and scapegoating Obama when Romney would be doing the exact same thing.

Also Prof, you throw a lot of personal attacks at me for being a white muslim and having a strong opinion on Libya despite having never been there, as though this legitimizes your mainstream-based opinion. But its not me thats putting the evidence out there. Human rights watch is telling you what happened. Videos taken by the rebels themselves and civilian witnesses tell the story after being analyzed. As the fog of war lifts, more of the truth will come out. Also, Muammar Gaddafi and the Libyan Jamahiriya have always been very good friends of the Nation of Islam here in America. My character judgement of Muammar Gaddafi is informed primarily by that relationship, as well as his consistent advocacy for a strong, independent, and united Africa. Libya was a destination country for black migrant workers, and black Libyans thought enough of the Jamahiriya to make up a significant portion of the police and armed forces.

[Sadler]

rag-time, have you ever been outside the US? If so, where and for how long?

[Emerald Rocker]

Louis Farrakhan is a massive racist.

[HercTNT]

I Thought about replying, then realized we have just one more regal-sin. You can't talk to people like this.

[Bernie]

This damn thread needs to be locked..  I swear.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

I have no main stream based opinion Rags. I am neither a Democrat, or a Republican, I don't vote for anyone in either party, because I don't care to compromise myself by choosing the lesser of two evils when I care for nothing either party is offering me.  I simply don't care to get caught up in such things, nor believe everything I see on TV simply because its on there. I also am by no means 100 percent Pro USA, USA DOES NOTHING WRONG, and I thought I made that clear when I mentioned that I by no means am Capt. f*cking America.

We have plenty of faults ourselves, from slavery, equal rights issues, giving black men syphilis, to maintaining Japanese detention centers during WWII, to treating returning soldiers from Nam like shit, and on and on and on. I don't need to run though the entire list of the United States faults just to make you aware that is how I feel, nor do I need to run through the entire list of positives you mentioned regarding that dictatorship, because the positives don't make up for the minuses, and its not my job to defend them, nor would I. The main difference here is you don't have to deal with even a shred of the same hardships others in Muslims countries have to live with daily. You're country, for all its faults, doesn't send someone to kill you because you decided to go down to 5th Avenue with a cardboard sign protesting how you feel you have been wronged by Obama or Bush or whomever. As bad as we are, we are still quite a few steps above many other countries. You grew up white, privileged compared to most youths in other countries, and your worst concern growing up was just typical every day bullshit.

Like I said, why don't you travel your wannabe ass to Libya, Iran, or Syria, and do some actual research yourself. Get in the shit, hear peoples first hand accounts. Do some missionary work. You wont though, its easier to dismiss the victims suffering from afar because you happened to like the values of the dictator that was in power. You also have no first hand experience with the people you are defending. You have not bled for their cause. You're just a weekend warrior, supporting them from afar with a few good words and some silent prayers that do no one a lick of good other then to make you feel better about yourself.

You want to be a REAL f*cking Muslim? Then try living in a real Muslims world, not just sitting on the sidelines reading books about how to eat like a Muslim and enjoying Muslim cuisine in-between prayer and visits to the local arcade. You grew up in the USA. Your typical worst problems are f*cking first world problems unless something major happens like cancer. You never had to worry about being dragged out into a street and shot depending on who was in power any given day of the week. You have not had to worry about having to sell your kids into some shity marriage to keep your family going. You have not had to worry about the Taliban coming to your village and stoning your daughter to death because she wanted to learn to f*cking read and go to school. Until you do, or until you travel and get some REAL first hand experience, not just crap you see on youtube, you are just nothing more then a typical white poser living in a privileged society maintaining the same old tired anti-US rhetoric, with NOTHING worth complaining about compared to those from afar whom you seem to either disparage or idolize, depending on what side of the regime they were on.

[rag-time4]

rag-time, have you ever been outside the US? If so, where and for how long?

Yes Sadler, I've been to the Phillipines twice for about a month each time.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

rag-time, have you ever been outside the US? If so, where and for how long?

Yes Sadler, I've been to the Phillipines twice for about a month each time.

Yeah, real life changing hardships there on your vacation to meet your wife and her family. I swear.....