Duo save capacity comparisons and/or alternatives requested

[Bardoly]

I've only recently gotten a PC Engine Duo, and I've already run into save problems.  I've been playing several different games, and my system is only allowing me to save about 10-15 different saves.  According to this Turbo Duo Game Save FAQ, different game saves take up different amounts of memory.  I understand this, and I also understand that there is something called a TENNOKOE BANK which can help with running out of save memory without having to delete saves, although I don't fully understand how to use this yet, and I don't even have one right now.

My question is this:  Do the TG-16 Turbo Duo and all of the various PC Engine Duos all have the same save capacity?  Or do some of them have more or less save capacity?  As in, can one of the various Duo releases store more saves than the others?  If so, then I might want to look into getting the one with more save capacity, since I'm not fully understanding the benefits of the Tennokoe Bank yet, and I'm wanting to be able to save more than 10-15 different games.

[Necromancer]

They all have the same capacity of ~2000 units (bits?).  The Tennokoe Bank cards allow you to either move or swap the entire bank (no picking and choosing which files to archive) to one of three slots on the card.

[Bernie]

I believe they are all the same.  Invest in one of the tennokoe bank cards.  They are cheap and easy to use.  I can send you a basic guide if needed.  It would be nice if there were an option to make the save capacity bigger.  Not sure how that could/would be done though.

[Bardoly]

They all have the same capacity of ~2000 units (bits?).  The Tennokoe Bank cards allow you to either move or swap the entire bank (no picking and choosing which files to archive) to one of three slots on the card.

This is helpful information for sure.
So, are you saying that a single Tennokoe Bank card can basically store 3 times as much data as a Duo?
So basically, if I want to mantain all of my save game/high score/etc... save data, then I should probably get 2-3 Tennokoe Bank cards?

Also, aren't the Tennokoe Bank cards saved themselves by battery?  So when the battery dies, so do all of the saves?

Thanks.

[Bardoly]

I believe they are all the same.  Invest in one of the tennokoe bank cards.  They are cheap and easy to use.  I can send you a basic guide if needed.  It would be nice if there were an option to make the save capacity bigger.  Not sure how that could/would be done though.

If the guide is different from the GameFAQs guide link that I posted, then please send it to me.

Yes, it seems that it would be awesome if there were some way that a save card with SD card capability would be great, but alas, I too have no clue how that could be done as well.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, they are all the same and the Bank is pretty much your only option.

Honestly though, what are you really going to do with a save file for a game you haven't played in five years? I used to be really concerned about such things but after having owned turbo stuff for 20 years now I've come to realize that there just isn't much point trying to archive everything. By the time I come back to Dracula X I'm going to want to start from the beginning anyway.

[Necromancer]

So, are you saying that a single Tennokoe Bank card can basically store 3 times as much data as a Duo?

Yes.  Keep in mind that it saves the system's memory three times separately (not one big file) and that's all it does - you can't save directly to the card from within games.

So basically, if I want to mantain all of my save game/high score/etc... save data, then I should probably get 2-3 Tennokoe Bank cards?

That depends on how many and which games you have, as games like Sim Earth and Might & Magic III can use up one whole slot on the bank card all by themselves.

Also, aren't the Tennokoe Bank cards saved themselves by battery?  So when the battery dies, so do all of the saves?

Yep.  If you want a more reliable solution, you can use the Nanami (sp?) Bank utility or Chris Covell's BRAM tool to make hard copies of each save file - a lengthy and laborious process where you write down (and input) each save manually, like the worlds most tedious password..

[Bernie]

Whats the nanami bank utility? 

[Necromancer]

Whats the nanami bank utility?  

Use search, ya phookin' noob!  

It's a utility (that you burn to CD like a game iso) that can display each save file's hex data on screen or can recreate previously 'saved' files.  Here's a quote from Termis that describes the process in detail:

1. You download nanami, and it's an iso that you burn on to a CDR.  
2. Then you execute it on your PCE CD-based system.
3. Then to "back-up" a file, all that nanami does is display all the hex data of the save file on screen, and you have to manually write this down on a sheet of paper.  (Though it's 10 billion times easier & much less error prone if you just to take a few snapshots via a digital camera.)
4. Then you run one of the nanami utilities on your PC, and once again, manually type in all that binary data back in.  Obviously this is the part where it takes the longest time.  (though quick for small save files, a long RPG game, you can be typing for a good 7-10 minutes).
5. This recreates the save file on your PC
6. Then you create an iso file using one of the tools included in nanami.A
7. Now you burn another CDR of this iso image.
8. Now with this CDR again, you have to option to write that save file back on to the PCE SRAM, or go back to step 3) whenever you want to "backup" another file.

In sum, the big cons of this system is that you have to waste a CDR every time you want to write the save files you have on your PC back on to your Duo, and step 4), since it's a pain-in-the-ass.  But the big Pro is the fact that you have a permanent save file much more secure than a ten-no-koe bank, and you can store virtually unlimited number of save files on to that one CD.  Once again, I only recommend that you "backup" files via nanami only after you know for a fact that the particular save file you want to save is the "final" version you want to archive.  I basically treat ten-no-koe as my "temporary" backup these days.

[esteban]

You say "laborious", I say "grueling" process! 

[Bernie]

Screw that mess!  Lol

[BigusSchmuck]

Whats the nanami bank utility? 

Use search, ya phookin' noob! 

It's a utility (that you burn to CD like a game iso) that can display each save file's hex data on screen or can recreate previously 'saved' files.  Here's a quote from Termis that describes the process in detail:

1. You download nanami, and it's an iso that you burn on to a CDR. 
2. Then you execute it on your PCE CD-based system.
3. Then to "back-up" a file, all that nanami does is display all the hex data of the save file on screen, and you have to manually write this down on a sheet of paper.  (Though it's 10 billion times easier & much less error prone if you just to take a few snapshots via a digital camera.)
4. Then you run one of the nanami utilities on your PC, and once again, manually type in all that binary data back in.  Obviously this is the part where it takes the longest time.  (though quick for small save files, a long RPG game, you can be typing for a good 7-10 minutes).
5. This recreates the save file on your PC
6. Then you create an iso file using one of the tools included in nanami.A
7. Now you burn another CDR of this iso image.
8. Now with this CDR again, you have to option to write that save file back on to the PCE SRAM, or go back to step 3) whenever you want to "backup" another file.

In sum, the big cons of this system is that you have to waste a CDR every time you want to write the save files you have on your PC back on to your Duo, and step 4), since it's a pain-in-the-ass.  But the big Pro is the fact that you have a permanent save file much more secure than a ten-no-koe bank, and you can store virtually unlimited number of save files on to that one CD.  Once again, I only recommend that you "backup" files via nanami only after you know for a fact that the particular save file you want to save is the "final" version you want to archive.  I basically treat ten-no-koe as my "temporary" backup these days.

Now I have a valid excuse to get rid of most of my cdrs.
]

[Bardoly]

Sounds 'exciting'...  So, is there a library of these iso's of certain saves which people like to save?  I would like to create my own, but I'm curious.

[vestcoat]

Sounds 'exciting'...  So, is there a library of these iso's of certain saves which people like to save?  I would like to create my own, but I'm curious.

Not exactly the same, but I have a flippin' sweet password for the last battle in Order of the Griffon!

[termis]

Sounds 'exciting'...  So, is there a library of these iso's of certain saves which people like to save?  I would like to create my own, but I'm curious.

Not a library of isos, but I have a library of bunch of binary save files (that's identical to the save file that's used in the PCE/TG16).  I just create a iso of with a number of these save files on one CD whenever I need them (I've since then found out that you can only link about a few dozen on one CDR at a time, so another weak link in the system there - however, you can still keep virtually unlimited amount of save files on your local hard drive, of course).

All this said, I've started going emulation lately, and it's much easier there because you can simply just cut out the binary code of just the save game portions from the system BRAM file and save that using a hex editor (you can verify the beginning and ending points using nanami bank).

Definitely not a quick black-box solution, but this is the only permanent solution I've seen so far...

And zeta also has a point... When't the next time I'm going to pull out the save file for some obscure RPG game like Aurora Quest and load it up my Duo?  Chances are pretty good that it'll be never.