Author Topic: How to save the Vita?  (Read 1650 times)

Jibbajaba

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 04:52:06 AM »
alot of the "hardcore gamers" turned into fat lazy retards that try to justify their lack of gameplaying with stupid reasons like "jobs" and "families"

Wow.  That describes me to a "T".

Chris

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 05:57:46 AM »
lol. whoops.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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KingDrool

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2012, 06:46:33 AM »
I can rarely tell if you're joking.
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SignOfZeta

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2012, 06:56:19 AM »
The biggest problem with the Vita is that nobody asked for it. It's hard to fix that.

As opposed to the clamoring hordes screaming for the 3DS or the PSP or even the Wii?  :roll:

Its exactly like the PSP. That's the problem. The PSP was too much for people when it came out but Monster Hunter and Bandai along with a reduced price made it popular. This hasn't happened yet with the Vita, mostly because Bandai is still making regular PSP games! They even have a One Piece LE PSP coming out soon, which is really f*cking hilarious, IMO, and says a lot.

The Wii has always been popular, and always profitable, but this is because it has the motion control element that the hardcore a$$holes are always making stuck up jokes about. It was innovative. People wanted the innovation, or gimmick, or whatever you want to call it. They wanted it the second they saw it, and Nintendo made a profit on every Wii sold. The Vita does nothing whatsoever that something else doesn't do except for...rear touch? Wow. Rear touch. Blow my mind why don't you, Sony.

As for the 3DS...its true, people weren't really wanting 3D. They want it more now, but not really. People seem to pretty much always want the new Nintendo handheld for whatever reason though, and Pokemon sales ALONE are probably enough to outstrip every Vita game combined.

Which brings up an interesting point; backward compatibility. Nintendo is very good at this, historically. The two most recent Pokemon games were made as regular DS games instead of 3DS games, and the 3DS can still play them. Also, any DS made in the last 8 years can play them. This makes the hardware transition a lot easier, especially for parents. They can buy one copy of a game for two kids who have two different versions of DS in the same house. Sony is just too damned stupid to consider things like this. Sony seems to be on a mission to get you to throw out your regular PSP stuff while at the same time not giving you much new to play. The PSP Go for example...its single defining feature was that you had to buy all your same games again to use it. What a brilliant idea for a system!

Sony seems to built really powerful game hardware with no thought to the future. A huge problem with the PS2, PS3, and the PSP was...what do you do if it actually catches on? If you are losing $80 every time someone buys a system you are only going to break even when they by 4 or 5 full price retail games, which make take years, or never. How do you de-content and price down something as complex as a PS3? It would be nice if the Vita had a UMD drive in it, but obviously this is impossible because it would jack the price up even further...but seriously, that's something they should have thought of when they make the PSP in the first place. Nintendo has no problem fitting a DS slot into its last SIX hardware iterations, and a GBA slot on the first two DS versions.

With all of their target customers spending $100 on cel phone bills every month and buying a new smartphone every other year for $200 that's taking money out of the handheld gaming world. You can't just go and pretend that this isn't the case...but that's exactly what Sony seems to be doing. OK, so the Vita is really powerful, but that's a curse as well as a blessing. The same problem was the case with the PSP. In order to develop an impressive PSP/Vita game you have to spend Metal Gear Solid levels of money while pricing the game for less than a console game and selling fewer copies. How the f*ck is that supposed to work when even popular 1st tier console games are hauling in smaller and smaller margins every year?

Honestly, they should have just gone and made the first cell phone with decent gaming controls and went with that. Its kind of too late now. Sony in general is f*cked. The Walkman line is close to dead (which is %90 their fault), they don't have a lock on TVs anymore. They are third in the console wars and still make less money off each system than the first two places. They are a hilariously distant 2nd in the handheld market with no sign of looking up. This company has been HUGELY mismanaged and way too confident.

Nando

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2012, 09:04:55 AM »
Nintendo is a toy company, Sony didn't know what it was. Rather Sony had too many heads/departments all doing their own thing. Another reason why they lost the digital content "wars" Apple beat them to it. Anyway, I think the PS2 was extremely successful. Obviously the PS3, not so much..

Anyway, Zeta, I agree with the majority of your post.

KingDrool

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2012, 09:23:26 AM »
On a somewhat related note, Nintendo was wise to think about this question: How can we make the 3DS a console that people will want to take with them everywhere?

Think about it: we always have our phones on us, which is why the iPhone and Android platforms make for such good gaming platforms (not talking about controls, here). But Nintendo added in the Street/Spotpass functionality, the coins you can earn by simply walking around with the damn thing, and the collectibles that come with all that stuff. Sure, it's mostly fluff. But it's at least an effort to get people to lug another device around along with their smartphones. Mine's in my bag almost all the time for that reason alone.

Like Zeta said, Sony doesn't seem to have thought of any of that sort of thing. Rather, we've got another home console shrunk down into a rather bulky portable...with rear touch. I would love to own one, don't get me wrong, but there's really nothing there that's too compelling at that price.
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Necromancer

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2012, 11:09:18 AM »
Sony seems to be on a mission to get you to throw out your regular PSP stuff while at the same time not giving you much new to play. The PSP Go for example...its single defining feature was that you had to buy all your same games again to use it. What a brilliant idea for a system!

The Go was never intended to replace the PSP, but was meant to be sold along side it.  Sony's plan was to cash in on people that would never buy a regular PSP due to its size, weight, and relatively cumbersome and fragile UMD drive; a plan which failed because those people weren't going to buy and haul around another machine anyway.

Honestly, they should have just gone and made the first cell phone with decent gaming controls and went with that. Its kind of too late now.

Like the Xperia Play?  That sold like hotcakes, right?

Like Zeta said, Sony doesn't seem to have thought of any of that sort of thing.

I'm not gonna say they're good ideas or work great, but Sony did hit on the social interaction bit with Near and Facebook tools.
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SignOfZeta

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2012, 01:45:42 PM »
My logic might very well be flawed, but the results speak for themselves.

Nando

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2012, 02:12:07 PM »
The Xperia suffered from lack of software titles, the phone it self proved to be pretty damn fun from my  understanding; and folks that use it for emu absolutely love it. Sony needs a page from the old Apple and trim some shit down or focus better.

Now, I clearly remember a monster hunter HD and Vita video awhile back, what happened to that?

Is Phantasy Star coming to the Vita?

I really want to like the Vita, and I love the hardware design, but man...nothing grabs me.

Now, bring on a Monster Hunter package come Xmas and then we might be unto something.

SignOfZeta

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2012, 02:46:34 PM »
I will buy it for a (non-OG) Super Robot Wars game.

kazekirifx

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2012, 03:14:19 PM »
Legend of Heroes: Zero no Kiseki Evolution just came out yesterday in Japan and I spent all of last night playing it. I like it a lot. Basically it is an upgrade of the PSP version where they got voice actors to do all of the story parts, remixed the music, and upped the resolution of the graphics (of course). Not sure if it will warrant a purchase for people who already played through the game on PSP, but personally I'm really glad I never played very far into the PSP version and waited for the Vita remake instead. The amount and quality of voices in the Vita version is amazing, and for me this really makes the story sooo much more palatable since I often become bored with walls of text. Also, the remixed music is way above my expectations. Actually, I had originally wondered why they bothered remixing the music at all, but it turns out they really outdid themselves this time. With real instruments in almost all the tracks, the obvious upgrade in quality really ups the enjoyment factor for me. I think I will even bother collecting all the soundtrack CDs this time.
(Sorry. I just wanted to post my thoughts on this game and didn't think it necessarily warranted a whole new thread.)

More generally on the Vita: Ys is also, great, Uncharted was way above my expectations, and I will play Assassin's Creed when it comes out in a couple weeks even if the Vita version sucks, so personally I'm pretty happy with the library right now. But, I'm pretty disappointed with the system technically. Unlike the smartphones and tablets, this is a dedicated gaming system, so one of the selling points should be sheer graphical power to make games which are technically superior to those on phones/tablets and the 3DS. Unfortunately, I am finding it a bit lacking in the graphics department. The system's max resolution is 544p, which looks fine on the Vita's screen and technically the system should be able to handle this resolution with little trouble, but for some reason the majority of games so far are running at a lower resolution. This is not a nitpicky tech guy kind of complaint here. This is causing serious jaggies that any gamer - no matter how casual - is going to notice. The system already has so many things going against it, the last thing it needs is to be failing to accomplish its main selling point: to offer the best possible graphics experience on any portable device currently available. If it can't do that, then the system really doesn't have any edge over the competition.
Of course, as all of you pointed out, all of the above points are meaningless without killer apps to sell the system. I'm just making the point that this isn't even the only problem the system faces.

TheClash603

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2012, 04:06:57 PM »

This company has been HUGELY mismanaged and way too confident.


Agree 100%.  They need to break this Company up, right now it isn't working.

On a somewhat related note, Nintendo was wise to think about this question: How can we make the 3DS a console that people will want to take with them everywhere?


I am a big Spot Pass fan.  I make sure to put the 3DS in my pocket every time I go to the mall.  Going to a gaming convention with a 3DS is an extra special treat.

The Vita has something called Near, which I think is supposed to be a Spot Pass rip off?  I am not sure, because I don't think anyone within 100 miles of me has a Vita, so I have never seen it in action.

ParanoiaDragon

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2012, 06:46:16 PM »
Obviously I'd love to see Zero no Kiseki come outside of japan, that would be another game that'd get me to buy a Vita now!  I don't know how long it'll be before we get it, if ever.  I doubt it could be purchased by Atlus or someone to be released as a stand alone game since it's part of the same universe as the Trails in the Sky games, though, maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe it doesn't contain a mountain of spoilers that might ruin the story somehow?

SignOfZeta

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2012, 07:25:02 PM »
Here's something I've been thinking about for some time now, and I'm sure some people at Sony have thought the same thing, correct or not.

In the late 90s Sony pretty much owned portable music. There were a lot of cheap competitors, but their medium and high end Walkman lines were THE SHIT. People get really excited about the build quality of the iPhone 4 and 5, and they should, its probably the single nicest thing most of those people own (unless they also collect Rolex watches, Rolls Royce cars, Transrotor turntables, etc) but before Apple stuff was that nice, before...probably the iPod Mini is where it started, Sony totally owned that shit. Their high end Discmans were incredible, and their portable MD units were even nicer. The MZ-E45, the MZ-E10...dang that shit was nice. Recently iOS6 borked the sound on my iPhone 4 so I've had to result to using my MZ-R90 portable MD recorder. I hadn't powered it up in at least a year, and dang, I fell in love all over again. Its so...cool. Its just a cool piece of gear, period.

Check out the Sony Qualia-017:



Machined from a solid brass billet and nickel plated. So dang nice. I’ve known several industrial designers who went to school in the 90s and I’m telling you, Sony was considered Shangri La of places to work at just out of college. Now...dang, while I was a big Sony fan from the Walkman 2 to the D-25 to the MZ-N10...but now...I can hardly remember what any of their non-Playstation products from the last decade even look like. They are basically nothing.

The problem was that while Sony pretty much owned the portable music market in Asia and Europe (with American's only slightly digging the format in the big cities while most preferred $40 POS CD players and 64MB Diamond Rio MP3 players) the annoying aspects of Sony ownership were really nagging people. Because of this, as soon as the iPod got as small and cheap as MD, everyone jumped ship.

The annoying aspects of Sony ownership:

Needing a different AC adaptor for virtually every unit purchased: Much ado has been made of Apple ditching the Dock connector they've had since about 9 years ago. I've got mixed feelings about that but Sony changed the AC adaptor EVERY f*ckING TIME they made something, even if the battery was the same. Total bullshit. They'd change the size of the plug, or the polarity, or the voltages went up or down .3 volts, something. Total bullshit.

Reliability: Sony's of the 80s were pretty tough. Sony's of the 90s...not so much. The ultra slick looking stuff was usually even less durable.

Proprietary this and that: my girlfriend had a Discman with a unique headphone jack. Yes, a proprietary version of something that's been standard for decades on every Walkman or Walkman-like device. Considering the quality of Sony headphones (terrible) this was unforgivable.

Stupid firewalls: this...this is the big one.

Because Sony owned a record label, they got really protective of copying things. This is going to be an issue with something like MD since virtually nobody ever bought retail pre-recorded MDs.

First, there was Serial Copyright Management. This meant that anything recorded from a digital source set a flag preventing the copy from ever being recorded digitally.

Then when NetMD was introduced, which allowed for USB transfer of music from a computer to an MD recorder, they required that you use their software (which was SHIT) and it couldn’t upload meaning that if you recorded something in the field it had to be recored onto your computer in another way (either analog, or via a home MD deck with digital out). NetMD could only make USB copies from the computer to the MD recorder. It still recorded shit in real time (unless you used the horrible MDLP formats) and still transcoded it to ATRAC format.

By the time time HiMD came out they fixed basically all of this. HiMDs held 1GB! They could play ATRAC, MP3, or even PCM meaning that you could put uncompressed CD quality sound on them! They were high speed! You could upload or download unrestricted as well as still record from PCM and analog sources (something that still kind of sucks ass on Apple stuff). You could even store shit on there that wasn’t even music! But...by then it was too late. Apple had taken almost all of their business from them.

Now, lets say, if their own short sited greed hadn’t killed MD and ended up giving basically their entire market to Apple (who at the time just made iPods and niche computers), where would things be?

And what if the PSP used HiMD, like it damned well should of?

Well, obviously everything would be solid state by now in 2012. Sony wouldn’t be using MDs anymore just as Apple no longer puts tiny hard drives in their iPods. But what if Sony had managed to keep that margin?

One of the reason’s Apple’s phones have become nicer and nicer over the years is because they have so much market share. The processes they use to make the stuff are not cheap. The only reason they can do it is because they sell so many f*cking units. If they were only moving as many phones as Sony is there is no way they’d be able to profit from phones that are literally made one at a time on huge banks of rapid prototyping machines as the iPhone 4 was. This is kind of a vicious circle, unfortunately. The less you sell the larger your margins need to be so you cheapen the phone leading to it being less popular and then less people buying it and on and on. Recently a co-worker of mine bought whatever the new Samsung is and was showing me its features. Its pretty powerful for sure! It can actually run video in a window while you do something else, which my iPhone sure as hell can’t do. The case though...jeez...we measured it and it was as thick as my iPhone 4 to within .1mm, plus is has beveled edges and a removable battery cover which basically...leads to it feeling like a cheap creaky POS by comparison. Compared to the iPhone 4 its like the difference between chocolate and shit (they look the same from a a distance, but one you get them close to your face its pretty easy to tell the difference).

But what if Sony hadn’t shot themselves right in the f*cking foot? What if MD lived on as HiUMD, a format common to the PSP (which still lives, keep in mind, even with the least Universal disc format ever) and Walkman? Apple might not even have half the portable music market instead of %90. Sony phones would be solid metal masterpieces and the PSP...well, the PSP would probably still be cheap-ish but better, and the Vita would be a solid state solid brass pinnacle of industrial design.

The iPad and the million clones of the iPad probably wouldn’t even exist since it was birthed from an irrational love of iOS. With Sony owning half the market people would be too interested in actual product diversity to lust after what is essentially just a giant-ass iPod Touch.

They really really f*cked up.

Ji-L87

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Re: How to save the Vita?
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2012, 09:00:04 PM »
Man, what a post ^ I agree on some points though :) Let's use MiniDisc as an example. I just got into MDs and while I have no super expensive player, I dig it. My point though?
I mostly use my 90s Sharp MD recorder as my nice 2000-ish Sony NetMD has a bad screen, can't change the battery -which is pretty dead now - (only remove it if I were to throw it away) and can only do sync recording with optical sources and overall feels flimsy whereas my Sharp is a tad bigger, but it probably has the most solid build quality (outer case, anyway) out of any audio equipment I own. (My Sony mp3 player comes second, perhaps)
I could bludgeon someone with this and still use it afterwards. The screen is not backlit on the main unit, but it's still very easy to read, even in low light conditions. Oh, and it can "sync record" from both optical and analog sources, i.e. it starts recording when there's a sound coming. I might prefer the sound from the Sony though.

I believe I feel a bit the same way about the PSP & Vita. Now, I really like my PSP. But then I got into PSP gaming kinda late, when I could get games & hardware for low prices. To some extent, I've always done this for the systems I've bought myself and will most likely do the same with the Vita and possibly 3DS.

The PSP feels a bit...flimsy. I can sort of feel the plastic move and hear it creak when I use it, UMD door is very thin and the black color sucks fingerprints from literary everywhere. I always wished for a second stick on the PSP, a proper analog stick and the Vita's got that. But it doesn't seem like the perfect unit I've hoped for. I love the XMB interface and the Vita looks...I don't know how to put it, like I'd be afraid to use it because I don't want it to get scratched or broken. It doesn't look rugged enough.

Of course, games also factor in. A Monster Hunter game would make me want it more, but right now, I don't want to buy a Vita because I've got my eyes on so many other things. So, one problem, I guess, isn't that people doesn't want it, but they don't want it more than anything else?  :-s
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 10:30:12 PM by Ji-L87 »
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