Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...

[Joe Redifer]

Oh, HA, I was talking about NG.

So was I. I'm saying if the Genesis can do it in the software the NG might be able to kind of do it in a small window at a low frame rate.

[EvilEvoIX]

...oh god, not more of this.
I'm sorry.  

You have a lot of mud to sling but no substance, embarrassing actually I figured with such anger would at least come a point

You heard it here, folks. The SNES can't do mode-7 effects, but the Genesis can.

You misunderstood.  The SNES has specific hardware in the unit itself and in a lot of carts with additional hardware chips to do mode 7.  Mode 7 only applies to the SNES as it's a Nintendo term, so saying any other system can't do mode 7 is 100% accurate as only a SNES has mode 7 so duh.  That said the Megadrive can do a version of the Mode 7 trick it via it's CPU doing the math.  No special chips or hardware, just from the processor itself.  It's in a couple of games and or course prominently in Pier Solar so that's that.

[geise]

Here's a video of

running on the ZX Spectrum. Therefore all your arguments are invalid.

That is so awesome!  Thanks for sharing hahaha!


BTW what is this thread about again?

[bob]

...oh god, not more of this.
I'm sorry. 

You have a lot of mud to sling but no substance, embarrassing actually I figured with such anger would at least come a point

Oh, I'm far from angry.  But, you're starting to borderline on propaganda.

[Tatsujin]

Pce can do faceballer, pce can do the everything.

[Black Tiger]

Here's a video of

running on the ZX Spectrum. Therefore all your arguments are invalid.

That is so awesome!  Thanks for sharing hahaha!


BTW what is this thread about again?

...oh god, not more of this.
I'm sorry. 

You have a lot of mud to sling but no substance, embarrassing actually I figured with such anger would at least come a point

You heard it here, folks. The SNES can't do mode-7 effects, but the Genesis can.

You misunderstood.  The SNES has specific hardware in the unit itself and in a lot of carts with additional hardware chips to do mode 7.  Mode 7 only applies to the SNES as it's a Nintendo term, so saying any other system can't do mode 7 is 100% accurate as only a SNES has mode 7 so duh.  That said the Megadrive can do a version of the Mode 7 trick it via it's CPU doing the math.  No special chips or hardware, just from the processor itself.  It's in a couple of games and or course prominently in Pier Solar so that's that.

Only some SNES games use chips on cart to help in various ways. The SNES can do 60fps 3D-like floor effects without any extra "cheater" chips. F-Zero is a good example. It's true that pretty much any kind of effect can be calculated by a game console cpu and rendered in-game. But the Neo Geo is the only console that I know of that can't.

SNES, Genesis & PCE all have games featuring realtime polygons or 3D corridor effects.

Neo Geo literally cannot do realtime polygons, 3D corridor or any other cpu driven/software effects.

[EvilEvoIX]

Oh, I'm far from angry.  But, you're starting to borderline on propaganda.

I have to build my army......They will be loyal and magnificent.

[EvilEvoIX]

Here's a video of

running on the ZX Spectrum. Therefore all your arguments are invalid.

That is so awesome!  Thanks for sharing hahaha!


BTW what is this thread about again?

...oh god, not more of this.
I'm sorry. 

You have a lot of mud to sling but no substance, embarrassing actually I figured with such anger would at least come a point

You heard it here, folks. The SNES can't do mode-7 effects, but the Genesis can.

You misunderstood.  The SNES has specific hardware in the unit itself and in a lot of carts with additional hardware chips to do mode 7.  Mode 7 only applies to the SNES as it's a Nintendo term, so saying any other system can't do mode 7 is 100% accurate as only a SNES has mode 7 so duh.  That said the Megadrive can do a version of the Mode 7 trick it via it's CPU doing the math.  No special chips or hardware, just from the processor itself.  It's in a couple of games and or course prominently in Pier Solar so that's that.

Only some SNES games use chips on cart to help in various ways. The SNES can do 60fps 3D-like floor effects without any extra "cheater" chips. F-Zero is a good example. It's true that pretty much any kind of effect can be calculated by a game console cpu and rendered in-game. But the Neo Geo is the only console that I know of that can't.

SNES, Genesis & PCE all have games featuring realtime polygons or 3D corridor effects.

Neo Geo literally cannot do realtime polygons, 3D corridor or any other cpu driven/software effects.

The Neo Geo can do what ever you tell it to do within limits (not gona program Bio Shock on it).

With clever tricks and programming you can make it do 3D and quite well.

Oh and if you want to program 3D on the Neo Geo, it can be done again with TRICKS, always a way.

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=59253

I am sure it can do a style of the Mode 7 trick using massive sprites and animation.

That said it would be a ton easier to do with a simple add-on chip for the system to draw to, if that were done then all bets are off and the Neo would run with it.


That said it is a mostly a 2D power house, and just animates and scales what it needs to do.

[Black Tiger]

That "3D" demo is a single animated sprite being scaled.

I don't think that you understand the meaning of the word "trick". The word you should be using is "animation".

You could prerender a fixed angle Mode 7 style floor that only moves forward like Fast Striker's cgi background... or you could have a map screen where you sekect a destination and the Mode 7/cgi floor chsnges angles as it takes the exact same path every time. But as I said earlier and you were told in the sega-16 thread, all that any of this ir anything else the Neo Geo can simulate amounts to fmv.

[Joe Redifer]

Sweet Jesus on a popsicle stick why are all "demos" exactly the same? There's always slow text bouncing around, tons of arpeggio, some stupid effect that's not impressive at all, lots of colors flashing. Wait... is that video of a Sega Master System demo? Because it sure looked and especially sounded like it.

[EvilEvoIX]

That "3D" demo is a single animated sprite being scaled.

I don't think that you understand the meaning of the word "trick". The word you should be using is "animation".

You could prerender a fixed angle Mode 7 style floor that only moves forward like Fast Striker's cgi background... or you could have a map screen where you sekect a destination and the Mode 7/cgi floor chsnges angles as it takes the exact same path every time. But as I said earlier and you were told in the sega-16 thread, all that any of this ir anything else the Neo Geo can simulate amounts to fmv.

How do you know it's an animated sprite being scaled?


Tricks are a term used when you make a system do what it wasn't designed to do.  The Neo Geo NEVER had anything 3D imagined for it.  It had 2D muscle that still flexes impressively to this day.  The M6800 it has now is more than powerful enough to do 3D if asked properly and again can scale and animate what it needs to to make a "mode 7ish style" similar to what the Mega Drive can do. 

People forget the neo can do a maximum of 380 sprites on screen they can range in size from 1×2 to:16×512.  They are scalable and can be animated to do whatever is needed in real time.


That said it would be much easier to add a chip for the Neo to write to like the SNES did with a huge swath of their library.

Title    Chip    Year    Developer    Publisher
Mega Man X2 / Rockman X2    CX4    1994    Capcom    Capcom (NA) (JP) (EU)
Mega Man X3 / Rockman X3    CX4    1995    Capcom, Minakuchi Engineering    Capcom (NA) (JP)
Armored Trooper Votoms: The Battling Road    DSP-1    1993    Genki    Takara (JP)
Bike Daisuki! Hashiriya Kon - Rider's Spirits    DSP-1    1994    Genki    NCS (JP)
Final Stretch    DSP-1    1993    Genki    LOZC (JP)
Lock On / Super Air Diver    DSP-1    1993    Copya System    Vic Tokai
Michael Andretti's Indy Car Challenge    DSP-1    1994    Genki    Bullet Proof Software (NA) (JP)
Pilotwings    DSP-1    1991    Nintendo EAD    Nintendo (NA) (JP) (EU)
Shutokō Battle '94: Keichii Tsuchiya Drift King    DSP-1    1994    Genki    Bullet-Proof Software (JP)
Shutokō Battle 2: Drift King Keichii Tsuchiya & Masaaki Bandoh    DSP-1    1995    Genki    Bullet-Proof Software (JP)
Suzuka 8 Hours    DSP-1    1993    Arc System Works    Namco (NA) (JP)
Super Air Diver 2    DSP-1    1995    Copya System    Asmik (JP)
Super Bases Loaded 2 / Super 3D Baseball    DSP-1    1993    TOSE    Jaleco (NA) (JP)
Super F1 Circus Gaiden    DSP-1    1995       Nichibutsu (JP)
Battle Racers    DSP-1    1995    Banpresto    Banpresto (JP)
Korean League    DSP-1    1993    Hyundai    Jaleco (K)
Super Mario Kart    DSP-1/1B    1992    Nintendo EAD    Nintendo (NA) (JP) (EU)
Ace o Nerae! 3D Tennis    DSP-1A    1993    Telenet Japan    Telenet Japan (JP)
Ballz 3D    DSP-1B    1994    PF Magic    Accolade (NA)
Dungeon Master    DSP-2    1992    FTL Games    JVC Victor (NA) (JP) (EU)
SD Gundam GX    DSP-3    1994    BEC    Bandai (JP)
Top Gear 3000    DSP-4    1995    Gremlin Interactive    Kemco (NA) (JP) (EU)
Metal Combat: Falcon's Revenge    OBC-1    1993    Intelligent Systems    Nintendo
Daisenryaku Expert WWII: War in Europe    SA1    1996    SystemSoft Alpha    ASCII Corporation (JP)
Derby Jockey 2    SA1    1995    Graphic Research    Asmik
Dragon Ball Z: Hyper Dimension    SA1    1996    TOSE    Bandai (JP) (EU)
Habu Meijin no Omoshiro Shōgi    SA1       Access    Tomy (JP)
Itoi Shigesato no Bass Tsuri No. 1    SA1    1997    Dice, HAL Laboratory    Nintendo (JP)
J.League '96 Dream Stadium    SA1    1996       Hudson Soft (JP)
Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius    SA1    1995    Konami    Konami (JP)
Jumpin' Derby    SA1    1996    KID    Naxat Soft (JP)
Kakinoki Shogi    SA1    1995    Sakata SAS    ASCII Corporation (JP)
Kirby Super Star    SA1    1996    HAL Laboratory    Nintendo (NA) (JP) (EU)
Kirby's Dream Land 3    SA1    1997    HAL Laboratory    Nintendo (NA) (JP)
Marvelous: Mouhitotsu no Takarajima    SA1    1996    Nintendo R&D2    Nintendo (JP)
Masters New: Haruka Naru Augusta 3    SA1    1995    T&E Soft    T&E Soft (JP)
Super Robot Taisen Gaiden: Masō Kishin - The Lord Of Elemental    SA1    1996    Winkysoft    Banpresto (JP)
Mini 4WD Shining Scorpion Let's & Go!!    SA1    1996    KID    ASCII Corporation (JP)
Pebble Beach no Hotou: New Tournament Edition    SA1    1996    T&E Soft    T&E Soft (JP)
PGA European Tour    SA1    1996    Halestorm    THQ / Black Pearl Software
PGA Tour 96    SA1    1995    Black Pearl Software    Electronic Arts
Power Rangers Zeo: Battle Racers    SA1    1996    Natsume    Bandai
SD F-1 Grand Prix    SA1    1995    Video System    Video System (JP)
SD Gundam G NEXT    SA1    1995    Japan Art Media    Bandai (JP)
Shin Shogi Club    SA1    1995       Hect (JP)
Shogi Saikyou    SA1    1995       Magical Company (JP)
Shogi Saikyou 2    SA1    1996       Magical Company (JP)
Super Bomberman Panic Bomber World    SA1    1995    Hudson Soft    Hudson Soft (JP)
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars    SA1    1996    Square    Nintendo (NA) (JP)
Star Ocean    S-DD1    1996    tri-Ace    Enix (JP)
Street Fighter Alpha 2 / Street Fighter Zero 2    S-DD1    1996    Capcom    Capcom (NA) (JP) (EU)
Dai Kaiju Monogatari 2    S-RTC    1996    AIM, Birthday    Hudson Soft (JP)
Far East of Eden Zero    SPC7110    1995    Red Company    Hudson Soft (JP)
Momotaro Dentetsu Happy    SPC7110    1996    Make Software    Hudson Soft (JP)
Super Power League 4    SPC7110    1996    Now Production    Hudson Soft (JP)
F1 ROC II: Race of Champions / Exhaust Heat II    ST010    1993    SETA Corporation    SETA Corporation (NA) (JP)
Hayazashi Nidan Morita Shogi    ST011    1993    Random House    SETA Corporation (JP)
Hayazashi Nidan Morita Shogi 2    ST018    1995    Random House    SETA Corporation (JP)
Star Fox / Starwing    Super FX GSU-1    1993    Nintendo EAD, Argonaut    Nintendo (NA) (JP) (EU)
Stunt Race FX / Wild Trax    Super FX GSU-1    1994    Nintendo EAD, Argonaut    Nintendo (NA) (JP) (EU)
Vortex    Super FX GSU-1    1994    Argonaut Games    Electro Brain (NA), Pack-In-Video (JP)
Dirt Racer    Super FX GSU-1    1994    MotiveTime    Elite Systems (EU)
Dirt Trax FX    Super FX GSU-1    1995    Sculptured Software    Acclaim Entertainment (NA)
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island    Super FX GSU-2    1995    Nintendo EAD    Nintendo (NA) (JP) (EU)
Doom    Super FX GSU-2    1996    Sculptured Software    Williams (NA), Imagineer (JP), Ocean (EU)
Winter Gold / FX Skiing    Super FX GSU-2    1997    Funcom    Nintendo (NA) (EU)
Star Fox 2    Super FX GSU-2    cancelled    Nintendo EAD    Nintendo
FX Fighter    Super FX GSU-2    cancelled    Argonaut Games    GTE Entertainment (NA) (EU)
Comanche    Super FX GSU-2    cancelled    Nova Logic    Nova Logic (NA)
Powerslide    Super FX GSU-2    cancelled    Elite Systems    Elite Systems (EU)
Super Mario FX    Super FX GSU-2    cancelled    Nintendo EAD    Nintendo

[Bernie]

Are you retarded?

[SignOfZeta]

That said it would be much easier to add a chip for the Neo to write to like the SNES did with a huge swath of their library.

Not as easy as just animating it traditionally regardless of how much ROM it ate up, evidently.

Again, trying to write the ERA for consoles is f*cking stupid. They are all different and this is awesome. If the Neo could do all those SNES tricks then that's EXACTLY what developers would have done with it since that stuff was all the rage at the time. Thankfully Neo soft development went in a different direction and we got some cool amazing and unique stuff.

[SamIAm]

I still don't think you understand the consequences of the Neo Geo's CPU and VDP not sharing any RAM.

I think that demo actually builds the cube out of tiny sprites. That's the impression that I got reading the bouncing text, anyway. But even if that's the case, chances are that virtually all of the system's sprite bandwidth and a great deal of its CPU power are being soaked up just trying to build that one simple cube.

Oh and if you want to program 3D on the Neo Geo, it can be done again with TRICKS, always a way.

No there is not. There is sometimes a way, and in this case the prospects for the Neo Geo doing any kind of graphics processing that is directly assisted by the CPU is extremely bleak. It doesn't matter how powerful the CPU is if it and the VDP can't see each other.

[SignOfZeta]

Who the hell wants crappy "I'm barely capable of this" polygons anyway when you can have an easily animated 2D Earthquake?



I don't think Stunt Race FX caused any envy in the Neo scene...did it?