Author Topic: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...  (Read 5445 times)

SignOfZeta

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2013, 06:32:38 PM »
Yeah, the Sega CD was really damned powerful. I don't blame the FMV stuff for it not ending up that great in the end though. If it didn't have the FMV stuff it simply would have had that many fewer games. Quality Japanese developers were in short supply because almost nobody bought the Megadrive in Japan. They certainly weren't going to buy a 40,000 yen add-on for it.

I also think the crappy colors in the base Megadrive really held it back too. When people see SFC (or even PCE) compared to the muddy crap on the MD they are turned off, and there was no way a CD add-on was going to fix this.

I mean, realistically, there is no real reason LoT should be better on the lowly PCE than it is on the MD. The PCE is a much slower machine and the CDROM2 doesn't add anywhere near as much power to the PCE as the MCD does to the MD...but you do kind of need color. :(

Tatsujin

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2013, 06:36:38 PM »
The PCE is a much slower machine

when did that happen?
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SignOfZeta

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2013, 07:01:02 PM »
I'm speaking purely from a mathematical perspective. A full Mega CD setup has a lot more horsepower than a PC Engine with Super CDROM2 equipment.

EvilEvoIX

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2013, 07:05:15 PM »
Yeah, the Sega CD was really damned powerful. I don't blame the FMV stuff for it not ending up that great in the end though. If it didn't have the FMV stuff it simply would have had that many fewer games. Quality Japanese developers were in short supply because almost nobody bought the Megadrive in Japan. They certainly weren't going to buy a 40,000 yen add-on for it.

I also think the crappy colors in the base Megadrive really held it back too. When people see SFC (or even PCE) compared to the muddy crap on the MD they are turned off, and there was no way a CD add-on was going to fix this.

I mean, realistically, there is no real reason LoT should be better on the lowly PCE than it is on the MD. The PCE is a much slower machine and the CDROM2 doesn't add anywhere near as much power to the PCE as the MCD does to the MD...but you do kind of need color. :(


A lot of games had poor color choices however the MD could indeed put out great color, at least three times the 64 color limit just by using the shade and highlight trick.  Hell Toy story had over 200 colors on screen at some point. 

The CD add on IMHO should have been a 32X CD unit at least.  IDK why it didn't.


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Tatsujin

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2013, 07:12:31 PM »
I'm speaking purely from a mathematical perspective. A full Mega CD setup has a lot more horsepower than a PC Engine with Super CDROM2 equipment.

Ah ok, you comparing it to the MCD, then I can agree with you. I've thought you mean the plain MD/Genesis set up.
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EvilEvoIX

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2013, 09:44:41 PM »
I'm speaking purely from a mathematical perspective. A full Mega CD setup has a lot more horsepower than a PC Engine with Super CDROM2 equipment.

Ah ok, you comparing it to the MCD, then I can agree with you. I've thought you mean the plain MD/Genesis set up.

The Mega-drive itself is quite powerful machine.  It's based off arcade hardware.  With tricks it could make a lot more colors than 64 on display.  That said it cannot display colors like the PCE.  The Mega Drive has a LOT of power in terms of animation.  It does things very smooth and with control to match.  The Mega CD has the same processor just clocked faster and obviously the "Mode 7" effect but the standard MD could and can still do a lot.


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SignOfZeta

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2013, 11:49:49 PM »
Yeah, the Sega CD was really damned powerful. I don't blame the FMV stuff for it not ending up that great in the end though. If it didn't have the FMV stuff it simply would have had that many fewer games. Quality Japanese developers were in short supply because almost nobody bought the Megadrive in Japan. They certainly weren't going to buy a 40,000 yen add-on for it.

I also think the crappy colors in the base Megadrive really held it back too. When people see SFC (or even PCE) compared to the muddy crap on the MD they are turned off, and there was no way a CD add-on was going to fix this.

I mean, realistically, there is no real reason LoT should be better on the lowly PCE than it is on the MD. The PCE is a much slower machine and the CDROM2 doesn't add anywhere near as much power to the PCE as the MCD does to the MD...but you do kind of need color. :(


A lot of games had poor color choices however the MD could indeed put out great color, at least three times the 64 color limit just by using the shade and highlight trick.  Hell Toy story had over 200 colors on screen at some point.  

The CD add on IMHO should have been a 32X CD unit at least.  IDK why it didn't.

Because it would have pushed the price of a complete system to 3DO levels? Because the Hitachi SH-2 didn't even exist yet? Because it would have been monsterously difficult to program for? Because the 32X was pretty much a US project begun after the MegaCD? Because the 32X f*cking sucked?

Maybe one of those reasons. Maybe all if those and more.

Btw, this forum has been over the "such and such system was ACTUALLY CAPABLE of such and such tricks" a million times before and honestly it's dumb. If all the games on a system are brown then it's a brown system. I'm sorry it's brown. I'm not glad it's brown. But it's brown. Maybe the system can only do brown stuff for technical reasons, or maybe everyone that made games for it sucked. As it is, the MD basically makes for muddy graphics. Games that actually have decent color are usually stuff like Sonic or Phantasy Star IV where they use almost exclusively bright pallets. If you want something subtle but nice, like Lords of Thunder for example, it seems to not be able to do it for whatever reason. 

So, while I'm sure Toy Story is awesome and all, overall anyone playing Genesis games is playing brown dull looking games.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 11:57:50 PM by SignOfZeta »

esteban

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2013, 12:56:55 AM »
If all the games on a system are brown then it's a brown system. I'm sorry it's brown. I'm not glad it's brown. But it's brown. Maybe the system can only do brown stuff for technical reasons, or maybe everyone that made games for it sucked. As it is, the MD basically makes for muddy graphics. 



GENESIS DOES BROWN.

WHAT CAN BROWN DO FOR YOU?


Update:



NOTE: I was very nice when I chose the screenshot. I tried to choose the BEST POSSIBLE BROWN EXPERIENCE a Genesis owner could have. THE OTHER GAMES ARE NOT AS FANTASTIQUE LE BROWN.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 02:06:53 AM by esteban »
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EvilEvoIX

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2013, 06:53:35 AM »
Yeah, the Sega CD was really damned powerful. I don't blame the FMV stuff for it not ending up that great in the end though. If it didn't have the FMV stuff it simply would have had that many fewer games. Quality Japanese developers were in short supply because almost nobody bought the Megadrive in Japan. They certainly weren't going to buy a 40,000 yen add-on for it.

I also think the crappy colors in the base Megadrive really held it back too. When people see SFC (or even PCE) compared to the muddy crap on the MD they are turned off, and there was no way a CD add-on was going to fix this.

I mean, realistically, there is no real reason LoT should be better on the lowly PCE than it is on the MD. The PCE is a much slower machine and the CDROM2 doesn't add anywhere near as much power to the PCE as the MCD does to the MD...but you do kind of need color. :(


A lot of games had poor color choices however the MD could indeed put out great color, at least three times the 64 color limit just by using the shade and highlight trick.  Hell Toy story had over 200 colors on screen at some point.  

The CD add on IMHO should have been a 32X CD unit at least.  IDK why it didn't.

Because it would have pushed the price of a complete system to 3DO levels? Because the Hitachi SH-2 didn't even exist yet? Because it would have been monsterously difficult to program for? Because the 32X was pretty much a US project begun after the MegaCD? Because the 32X f*cking sucked?

Maybe one of those reasons. Maybe all if those and more.

Btw, this forum has been over the "such and such system was ACTUALLY CAPABLE of such and such tricks" a million times before and honestly it's dumb. If all the games on a system are brown then it's a brown system. I'm sorry it's brown. I'm not glad it's brown. But it's brown. Maybe the system can only do brown stuff for technical reasons, or maybe everyone that made games for it sucked. As it is, the MD basically makes for muddy graphics. Games that actually have decent color are usually stuff like Sonic or Phantasy Star IV where they use almost exclusively bright pallets. If you want something subtle but nice, like Lords of Thunder for example, it seems to not be able to do it for whatever reason. 

So, while I'm sure Toy Story is awesome and all, overall anyone playing Genesis games is playing brown dull looking games.



I think the Sega CD, albeit powerful, should have been a full step forward.  That means a true upgrade.  More color for sure.  I don't think the 32X itself sucked, I think everything else supporting and implementing it sucked.  That said it wasn't needed.  Delay the Sega CD a year, make it display a f*ck ton of colors, that is all they would need to carry them into 1997-1998.  The issue is of course as we know it  U.S. Marketing.  How can you expect a system to carry 4 mediums?  (Sega Genesis, CD, 32x, 32X CD).  I followed along and loved it until I got my Saturn but most people hated the idea of it and I certainly don't blame them.  I still play my 32X as we speak today.

Saying all the games are brown is ignorant, it's like me saying all the PCE games are colorful 8 bit games with no parallax, we all know this to be false and one look at a game like Dynamite Headdy would flip you in a second.  The main titles on the Genesis were very colorful indeed.

Each system has it's strength and weaknesses.  Sega was increadably short sited when making the Mega Drive, it wouldn't have cost that much more to add the extra color, I mean the system was already set up  for it but it wasn't as they didn't see a reason back in 1988, an error indeed.  What they did do was give it a proper 16Bit engine which handles a lot on screen with minimal slowdown.  That is what I like along with clever programing bringing the system into games it was never designed for.



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bob

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2013, 07:02:14 AM »
^^^ have you looked at fighting street yet?  I'm just sayin... ^^^

BlueBMW

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2013, 07:30:39 AM »
Guys cmon, be nice lol
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turboswimbz

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2013, 07:46:53 AM »
Pc engine 4 lyfe. But yeah sega cd is cool too. Lets just all agree that leap frog sucks big ones.
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SamIAm

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2013, 07:51:06 AM »
There are few things Sega could have done to not get stomped by the Playstation. I believe that betting on a beefed up Sega CD, released later on as a pseudo-next-gen system, was probably not one of them.

My 2cent Sega history rewrite: Let the Sega CD be the goofy little experiment that it was, but ditch the 32X. Have faith in riding the 16-bit market through 1995. Release the Saturn/whatever a little later with 3D hardware superior to the Playstation's, and still with a CD drive unlike the N64. Maybe a stripped down Model-2 arcade board with a CD drive stuck on the side. Don't f*ck up the launch, and have a goddamn 3D Sonic game early on.

SignOfZeta

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2013, 08:37:50 AM »
The 32X only existed because the US and JP divisions were at war with each other. The poor saps that bought one were the casualties of this war. It was a f*cking terrible idea.

SamIAm

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Re: Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2013, 08:56:48 AM »
What I read about the 32X is that in its earliest conceptual stages, it was a much more minor upgrade. It's probably no coincidence that the idea came up shortly after Star Fox came out, and even some of their later advertisements emphasized that it was a better deal than enhanced SNES games with co-processors in the carts. So the idea at first was probably that gamers would buy an "enhancement" once and leave it on their system.

That may not have been too successful either, but regardless, they supposedly wound up reworking the system over and over until it became something so powerful that it had to be marketed as next-gen. The fact that Sega of Japan and Sega of America didn't have a coordinated reevaluation of the whole idea at that point and figure out what a bad idea it was is a good example of how dysfunctional things were at that time.

The 32X was apparently conceived by the Japanese CEO but given to SoA to design, BTW.