Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...

[Black Tiger]

STATUS: COMPARE Lords of Thunder SEGA-CD vs. PCE. Nothing fancy, mind you. Just download and compare tracks side-by-side. Manually.

I AM WELL AWARE: My comment is going to be quickly buried by the new developments in this thread. Ha!

The performance in the Sega version feels like the band is struggling to pull it off, even at the overall inferior level that they do. The main solos have been replaced by poor substitutes that don't compliment the music. The levels that the music was mastered at make the Turbo/PCE version sound like Rust in Peace and the Sega version sound like The World Needs a Hero. Just a goofy sounding poor cover overall. But if you're a fan of modern pop music where everything is LOUD, or the type who doesn't actually listen to the compositions or performance of game music, -only caring about instruments having the most "modern" sound (see youtube comments of Genesis/SNES music comparisons), then I'd expect that the Sega-CD meets your needs.

I have a unique Sega/Turbo LoT music comparison near completed, but literally have no free time for like a week.

[PunkicCyborg]

lords of thunder for sega cd is cool f you dont have a pce but if you can play the real deal why bother

[SamIAm]

Comparing Dracula X's sprite animation frames with the SNES Castlevanias and Bloodlines is a good way to show some of what's so cool about Dracula X, but it's misleading as a representation of the overall quality of the visuals in those games and the best animation on the three systems. Dracula X's sprites are almost exclusively what Konami focused on to give Dracula X its graphical punch. In the SNES and Genesis Castlevanias, their emphasis is much more on other kinds of details and effects. The sprites are modest more-or-less by choice.

Games like Donkey Kong Country and Aladdin, for starters, are much better.

[Necromancer]

Comparing Dracula X's sprite animation frames with the SNES Castlevanias and Bloodlines is a good way to show some of what's so cool about Dracula X, but it's misleading as a representation of the overall quality of the visuals in those games and the best animation on the three systems.

The point was to show that the PCE is capable of heavily animated sprites (even within the restrictions of a SuperCD), comparable to Aladdin or Earthworm Jim.  Nobody is saying that the Genesis and SNES aren't capable of similar feats.

[SamIAm]

The point was to show that the PCE is capable of heavily animated sprites (even within the restrictions of a SuperCD), comparable to Aladdin or Earthworm Jim.  Nobody is saying that the Genesis and SNES aren't capable of similar feats.

Fair enough. But if that's the case, why not compare them to Aladdin or Earthworm Jim directly? Why side by side with the other Castlevanias?

I guess it could be that that's just how the links were copy/pasted in a group.

[Tatsujin]

Dracula X's sprites are almost exclusively what Konami focused on to give Dracula X its graphical punch. 

And the rest of the game looks like meatgrinder sauce? I think that drac x shows some of the nicest back ground presentation in the whole 16-bit game era. so many details, so much variations, so much graphical content overall. no other akumajou game came just close to that. not before the 32-bit era was ringed in.

[Black Tiger]

The point was to show that the PCE is capable of heavily animated sprites (even within the restrictions of a SuperCD), comparable to Aladdin or Earthworm Jim.  Nobody is saying that the Genesis and SNES aren't capable of similar feats.

Fair enough. But if that's the case, why not compare them to Aladdin or Earthworm Jim directly? Why side by side with the other Castlevanias?

I guess it could be that that's just how the links were copy/pasted in a group.

Yeah, that's all copy and pasted from the screen comparison thread, where the Castlevania animation was being compared.

[SignOfZeta]

I think this is more of a matter of those sorts of games, the high end AAA American developed platformers, coming about after nearly all development of platformers on PCE came to an end. Most PCE platformers are pretty low end, designed to compete with the Famicom-era.

Comparing the animation in Dracula X to Earthworm jim is pretty ridiculous. Richtor is small and walks like he has a broom handle shoved up his ass. I do see your point, there is plenty of power in the SCD system to make an Aladdin or EJ, but Drac X isn't a good comparison. The hold back wasn't technical, it just that the people making those sorts of games were either in the US or they were working on Super Famicom so the PCE got left out of the great graphical leap forward with EJ, Aladdin, that kind of thing.

I guess that you somehow missed the massive PCE, SNES and Genesis, screen comparison thread. Dracula X has characters with comparable levels of animation to characters in EWJ and Aladdin and way more animation overall than either EWJ or Aladdin.

Your hyper sensitivity to anything you consider critical of the PCE is getting the best of you again. I've certainly seen that wall you just posted there before. Its very cool. Its pointless though because in no way am I doubting the PCE here on a technical level.

Drac X has a lot of frames, but frames don't make good animation, they only allow for potential. Richter's sprite is...its f*cking terrible. There is no other way to put it. Nobody walks like that unless they are wearing roller skates and a back brace. His head stays at the same level all the time and he looks, frankly, like he has severe constipation. Its f*cking terrible. He has frames, sure, but Mario's sprite from Donkey Kong is a better piece of work with...whatever that is, a four color sprite with three frames of animation. Frame count does not automatically make for good animation. Compare GI Joe to Zeta Gundam and you'll find Zeta to be a better looking show with fewer frames and a fraction of the budget.

Regardless, this is totally beside the point, the reason why there are no games like Aladdin on the PCE is because nobody made them. Shiny didn't make Turbo Grafx games, by this point neither did Capcom (save for a shitty port of Strider, a game from 1989). Earthworm Jim came out in 1994 and was a very good looking game for that year. There were only two or three platformers released in 1994 for the PCE, a year when most of the flashier action games were ports. Nobody was developing cutting edge platformers for PCE at that time. If they were we certainly would have seen some Aladdin/Earthworm Jim quality stuff.

[EvilEvoIX]

Comparing the animation in Dracula X to Earthworm jim is pretty ridiculous. Richtor is small and walks like he has a broom handle shoved up his ass.

I think he was more refering to this kind of animation stuff in drac x, which is by any means just crazy. even for todays standards.





Death Rondo


                 Death SCIV                                                                    Death Bloodlines
                           






Rondo

Dracula xx                                                                                    Bloodlines
     







Rondo

Dracula xx








Rondo

Bloodlines                                                         SCIV







Rondo

SCIV







Rondo

SCIV








Rondo

Bloodlines








Rondo

SCIV                                                  Bloodlines
                     







Rondo                                     Dracxx      
 
SCIV                                         Bloodlines
 









Rondo                                      Dracxx, forgot to add the 2 bones.
 
SCIV










Rondo                                                     Dracxx
 









Rondo

Dracxx











Rondo

SCIV




  Rondo                                            dracxx
 


SCIV                                              Bloodlines

                                            
                              Rondo
                              


second set, swing/swing while walking up stairs/swing while walking down stairs/swing while ducking/ jumping.

Bloodlines                                                    SCIV

Rondo
 

Obviously you are comparing a CD 788 Megs to a 15-20 meg cart.  We all know it can load more frames of animation with a larger CD however in terms of say Earthworm Jim or vector man, you really see the TG16 pulling that off?  I doubt it I really do.  I have spent hours running through my collection on my puter and the closest thing I can see is Magical Chase in terms of Cart.  I am not even that impressed with SSFII, slow and small sprites for some reason.  The shooters really floor me however.  The PCE lacked support I'll give it that but it did what it did well, massive color, it owned the 16Bit genre unless you include the Neo Geo which most of us do not.  That said I like Dracula X but it's not runnign crazy animation or a lot of stuff going on like again Vector man or Alien Soldier.  Gunstar Heroes being another.  The Mega Drive coudla really had a color increase though Bloodlines and Dynamite Headdy had a bunch a tricks to get past 64 limit.

[EvilEvoIX]

Comparing Dracula X's sprite animation frames with the SNES Castlevanias and Bloodlines is a good way to show some of what's so cool about Dracula X, but it's misleading as a representation of the overall quality of the visuals in those games and the best animation on the three systems. Dracula X's sprites are almost exclusively what Konami focused on to give Dracula X its graphical punch. In the SNES and Genesis Castlevanias, their emphasis is much more on other kinds of details and effects. The sprites are modest more-or-less by choice.

Games like Donkey Kong Country and Aladdin, for starters, are much better.

This is my point exactly, I just don't see the PCE doing games like Vector Man or Aladdin, not as smooth it just can't.  Colors hell yeah but not the smooth animation and speed of Vector man I just ran through that game again I don't see it.

[bob]

Obviously...I...

...have not checked my PMs about obnoxious signatures.

[Necromancer]

Regardless, this is totally beside the point, the reason why there are no games like Aladdin on the PCE is because nobody made them.

And that was never the question; it's pretty clear that Evo is talking about technical abilities and not about existing game libraries.

[Black Tiger]

Do not debate with EvilEvoIX. 60+ pages were wasted on sega-16 with people trying to reason with him (Genesis fans valiantly defending the PCE). No matter how specific an example you give him, it won't change his mind that even though he "has all the games", he is convinced that the PC Engine is just an NES that can do more color and not part of the same generation as Genesis and SNES. He also doesn't count the CD games as being PCE or part of any generation, because the CD-ROM upgrades and reflashes the bios of the PC Engine hardware and CD games could not be done on HuCards.

The SFII' sprites appearing "slow and small" to him is all you need to know.

[EvilEvoIX]

Do not debate with EvilEvoIX. 60+ pages were wasted on sega-16 with people trying to reason with him (Genesis fans valiantly defending the PCE). No matter how specific an example you give him, it won't change his mind that even though he "has all the games", he is convinced that the PC Engine is just an NES that can do more color and not part of the same generation as Genesis and SNES. He also doesn't count the CD games as being PCE or part of any generation, because the CD-ROM upgrades and reflashes the bios of the PC Engine hardware and CD games could not be done on HuCards.

The SFII' sprites appearing "slow and small" to him is all you need to know.

I've played Street Fighter 2, on the PCE.  I don't think it's as good as the md or snes.  How can you even argue it runs at the same speed?  I have all three games the md certain runs the most fluid and the least amount if slow down.  What game on the PCE comes close to the later games on the MD?  Everyone and their mother screwms Dracula x.  Great game but not the end all be all.  The music is for sure.  Not one example given that moves as smooth as Vector man or earthworm Jim or Alien Soldier.  I just get anger from people.  That said I feel the PCE Had the best shooters and am still trying to beat most of them.



It's hard to directly compare these two machines directly as a lot of turbo cd games can't compete against the sega cd because the sega cd has upgraded hardware so it's tough and we compare a cd to a md cart.  That said I love the turbo and md about the same followed by the nes and then the snes in that order.

[SamIAm]

I suspect that there is very, very little difference between the SNES, PCE and Genesis in terms of their practical, technological limits on doing sprite animation. They all have the very similar bottlenecks in terms of color, pixel bandwidth, and memory. It's a fairly unremarkable thing to compare, IMO.

The reason why there's nothing like the best Genesis stuff is mostly because nobody made it. Even Treasure said in an interview that there's not really anything that special about moving a few sprites around together. The important thing is the artistic vision to make it look good.

And the rest of the game looks like meatgrinder sauce? I think that drac x shows some of the nicest back ground presentation in the whole 16-bit game era. so many details, so much variations, so much graphical content overall. no other akumajou game came just close to that. not before the 32-bit era was ringed in.

The backgrounds are kind of hit and miss, though. Some of them are technically and artistically very well done, like the final third of stage 1 on the normal path. For every moment like that, though, there's another like this:

or this:


I actually think CV4's environments are much more interesting to look at overall, in spite of a couple of odd palette choices. They may not win the background-tile count, but they move more interestingly thanks to all the layers and effects. If you were to describe the scenes with words rather than tile-counts, they also hold up very well in terms of amount of detail.

Once you get past the flashy cutscenes and high-production music in DraculaX, I think the game's greatest asset is its bosses. Not only is their size, color, and animation the best in old-school Castlevania, but their behaviors and the tactics they demand to beat them are the most sophisticated as well. CV4 does really badly there, and CV3 and the X68K game aren't quite there, either. That's what I'd tell a first-time player to focus on and try to appreciate. The backgrounds, not so much.