Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...

[EvilEvoIX]

Artistic vision is indeed Paramount.  I always thought Nintendo particularly the SNES had extremely clever artistic vision.  The PCE was clever in the legendary ax series and Bonk for sure.  Magical Chase is really colorful and some neat sprites.  Think the shooters are by far the most clever.  Top quality stuff it owns the 16 bit gen for sure.

[SignOfZeta]

Do not debate with EvilEvoIX. 60+ pages were wasted on sega-16 with people trying to reason with him (Genesis fans valiantly defending the PCE). No matter how specific an example you give him, it won't change his mind that even though he "has all the games", he is convinced that the PC Engine is just an NES that can do more color and not part of the same generation as Genesis and SNES. He also doesn't count the CD games as being PCE or part of any generation, because the CD-ROM upgrades and reflashes the bios of the PC Engine hardware and CD games could not be done on HuCards.

The SFII' sprites appearing "slow and small" to him is all you need to know.

Yeah that's...pretty dumb. Is he comparing the PCE SFII' to Turbo on the other systems perhaps? Regardless, I'm not sure where the "small" comes from. All three systems have smaller sprites than the arcade.

SFII' is kind of annoying to me because its so often used as a yardstick of PCE power by people who understand the PCE really well but don't honestly know shit about Street Fighter. This guy seems to not really know either and also be blind.

[EvilEvoIX]

Do not debate with EvilEvoIX. 60+ pages were wasted on sega-16 with people trying to reason with him (Genesis fans valiantly defending the PCE). No matter how specific an example you give him, it won't change his mind that even though he "has all the games", he is convinced that the PC Engine is just an NES that can do more color and not part of the same generation as Genesis and SNES. He also doesn't count the CD games as being PCE or part of any generation, because the CD-ROM upgrades and reflashes the bios of the PC Engine hardware and CD games could not be done on HuCards.

The SFII' sprites appearing "slow and small" to him is all you need to know.

Yeah that's...pretty dumb. Is he comparing the PCE SFII' to Turbo on the other systems perhaps? Regardless, I'm not sure where the "small" comes from. All three systems have smaller sprites than the arcade.

SFII' is kind of annoying to me because its so often used as a yardstick of PCE power by people who understand the PCE really well but don't honestly know shit about Street Fighter. This guy seems to not really know either and also be blind.

This is the problem with fanboi posts.  Take the rosé colored glasses off.  Understand that all consoles have strengths and weaknesses.  Enjoy the console for what it is and what it represents.  Not one console is the end all be all.  To me the PCE represents color perfection and excellent shooters and really cool upgrades.  The Snes as a main stream consoles with extremely clever 1st party games and art and stupid amounts of slow down.  The Mega Drive to me shows the experience of Sega and arcade hardware and using arcade hits to grow their console and build on that.  What's not to like between the three and I own them all.

[SignOfZeta]

Do not debate with EvilEvoIX. 60+ pages were wasted on sega-16 with people trying to reason with him (Genesis fans valiantly defending the PCE). No matter how specific an example you give him, it won't change his mind that even though he "has all the games", he is convinced that the PC Engine is just an NES that can do more color and not part of the same generation as Genesis and SNES. He also doesn't count the CD games as being PCE or part of any generation, because the CD-ROM upgrades and reflashes the bios of the PC Engine hardware and CD games could not be done on HuCards.

The SFII' sprites appearing "slow and small" to him is all you need to know.

Yeah that's...pretty dumb. Is he comparing the PCE SFII' to Turbo on the other systems perhaps? Regardless, I'm not sure where the "small" comes from. All three systems have smaller sprites than the arcade.

SFII' is kind of annoying to me because its so often used as a yardstick of PCE power by people who understand the PCE really well but don't honestly know shit about Street Fighter. This guy seems to not really know either and also be blind.

This is the problem with fanboi posts.  Take the rosé colored glasses off.  Understand that all consoles have strengths and weaknesses.  Enjoy the console for what it is and what it represents.

The real problem with fanboi posts is the stupid-ass gifs in the sig.

[turboswimbz]

Understand that all consoles have strengths and weaknesses.  Enjoy the console for what it is and what it represents.  Not one console is the end all be all. 

FALSE

THE PCE IS LIFE!  EVERYTHING ELSE EXISTS SO THAT THE PCE MAY EXISTS.  WITHOUT PCE LIFE HAS NO MEANING.

[Tatsujin]

Obviously...I...

...have not checked my PMs about obnoxious signatures.

[Tatsujin]

The SFII' sprites appearing "slow and small" to him is all you need to know.

that statement of him brought me quite a good giggle

and it also instant-disqualifies him from any further tech discussions regarding the pc engine.

[Tatsujin]

I suspect that there is very, very little difference between the SNES, PCE and Genesis in terms of their practical, technological limits on doing sprite animation. They all have the very similar bottlenecks in terms of color, pixel bandwidth, and memory. It's a fairly unremarkable thing to compare, IMO.

The reason why there's nothing like the best Genesis stuff is mostly because nobody made it. Even Treasure said in an interview that there's not really anything that special about moving a few sprites around together. The important thing is the artistic vision to make it look good.

And the rest of the game looks like meatgrinder sauce? I think that drac x shows some of the nicest back ground presentation in the whole 16-bit game era. so many details, so much variations, so much graphical content overall. no other akumajou game came just close to that. not before the 32-bit era was ringed in.

The backgrounds are kind of hit and miss, though. Some of them are technically and artistically very well done, like the final third of stage 1 on the normal path. For every moment like that, though, there's another like this:

or this:


I actually think CV4's environments are much more interesting to look at overall, in spite of a couple of odd palette choices. They may not win the background-tile count, but they move more interestingly thanks to all the layers and effects. If you were to describe the scenes with words rather than tile-counts, they also hold up very well in terms of amount of detail.

Once you get past the flashy cutscenes and high-production music in DraculaX, I think the game's greatest asset is its bosses. Not only is their size, color, and animation the best in old-school Castlevania, but their behaviors and the tactics they demand to beat them are the most sophisticated as well. CV4 does really badly there, and CV3 and the X68K game aren't quite there, either. That's what I'd tell a first-time player to focus on and try to appreciate. The backgrounds, not so much.

I may live on with that statement, but I have to say that f.e. bloodlines (vampire killer) has much more boring and very misscolored backgrounds here and there. at times it is a real pain to even watch at it.

As for CV4, I don't see so many memorable and nice backgrounds there, like in Drac X. A lot of them are also made by a bunch of randomly placed bland blurred mixed pixels, with not much of an expression or charisma, which reminds me much more of the NES era, than anyting seen in Drac X.

[Tatsujin]

I have spent hours running through my collection on my puter and the closest thing I can see is Magical Chase in terms of Cart. 

do you even own a real hardware and games? or are you pulling off your poor statements based on some crappy emulator trials during boring lonesome nights?

[EvilEvoIX]

Do not debate with EvilEvoIX. 60+ pages were wasted on sega-16 with people trying to reason with him (Genesis fans valiantly defending the PCE). No matter how specific an example you give him, it won't change his mind that even though he "has all the games", he is convinced that the PC Engine is just an NES that can do more color and not part of the same generation as Genesis and SNES. He also doesn't count the CD games as being PCE or part of any generation, because the CD-ROM upgrades and reflashes the bios of the PC Engine hardware and CD games could not be done on HuCards.

The SFII' sprites appearing "slow and small" to him is all you need to know.

Yeah that's...pretty dumb. Is he comparing the PCE SFII' to Turbo on the other systems perhaps? Regardless, I'm not sure where the "small" comes from. All three systems have smaller sprites than the arcade.

SFII' is kind of annoying to me because its so often used as a yardstick of PCE power by people who understand the PCE really well but don't honestly know shit about Street Fighter. This guy seems to not really know either and also be blind.

This is the problem with fanboi posts.  Take the rosé colored glasses off.  Understand that all consoles have strengths and weaknesses.  Enjoy the console for what it is and what it represents.

The real problem with fanboi posts is the stupid-ass gifs in the sig.

Can't hate on Terry Bogard boy you'll just sound silly.

[EvilEvoIX]

I have spent hours running through my collection on my puter and the closest thing I can see is Magical Chase in terms of Cart. 

do you even own a real hardware and games? or are you pulling off your poor statements based on some crappy emulator trials during boring lonesome nights?

Does the ever drive count?  I have one for my Genesis and now the PCE.  I have most games for both.

And whoever posted that Treasure could make the three systems do similar things is wrong.
In fact, here is an interview with Treasure from 1993.  Very interesting.

http://megadrive.me/2011/11/03/an-interview-with-treasure/

[SignOfZeta]

Well, first of all, all "hate on" whatever the f*ck I want.

Now that that's said, that animation is one of my favorite in the history of fighting games. I love the good ol Buster Wolf.

However, many of us are experiencing significant slowdown on our machine thanks to this gif of yours. Terry is cool as hell, but you're being a prick by bogging down other people's PCEFX experience. We would appreciate it if you'd replace it with a less CPU-intensive graphic.

[EvilEvoIX]

Well, first of all, all "hate on" whatever the f*ck I want.

Now that that's said, that animation is one of my favorite in the history of fighting games. I love the good ol Buster Wolf.

However, many of us are experiencing significant slowdown on our machine thanks to this gif of yours. Terry is cool as hell, but you're being a prick by bogging down other people's PCEFX experience. We would appreciate it if you'd replace it with a less CPU-intensive graphic.

Ok I see your point now.  Ill post up a PCE animation it's far less grafical intensive .

[Tatsujin]

Well, first of all, all "hate on" whatever the f*ck I want.

Now that that's said, that animation is one of my favorite in the history of fighting games. I love the good ol Buster Wolf.

However, many of us are experiencing significant slowdown on our machine thanks to this gif of yours. Terry is cool as hell, but you're being a prick by bogging down other people's PCEFX experience. We would appreciate it if you'd replace it with a less CPU-intensive graphic.

Ok I see your point now.  Ill post up a PCE animation it's far less grafical intensive .

Now you see hes point, even we're trying to tell you since a week, also with PMs sent?

How just simply about something non-animated non-bulky, or just a simple cool text? Too much asked? We're not over at fancy pantsy troll drift Neo-Geo & co. here.

[SamIAm]

I remember Tom made a good post about PCE SFII's speed where he explained why it wasn't particularly relevant - to the system running the game at 60fps, fast vs. slow is basically a difference of waiting a couple extra frames before loading the next animation frame. Do you wait three frames, or five? There's nothing taxing about waiting. What matters is the processes that happen on the frame where the next animation loads. If PCE SFII had simplified collision detection zones or didn't break down the character into as many pieces, then THAT would be a pretty good indicator that it didn't have the juice to handle the game well.

I do suspect that the PCE would choke a bit on the particular activity in Gunstar Heroes and Alien Soldier, but I also think it could do something similar enough. Look at all the crap flying around in shooters like Lords of Thunder. There's not a huge difference between a dozen independent enemies and a boss made of a dozen jointed parts.