Just played Lords Of Thunder for the sega cd ...

[Black Tiger]

I have one question regarding the NGs minus scaling ability (since I'm not one of those self-proclaimed experts). If the NG only can shrink a sprite from its original size to small and back again to original (like in Aof, Samo etc.), why does the cars etc. in riding hero getting all pixelated when they approaching near to the screen? Why not using the most near as the original size, so that it can't get pixelated in the first place? How can it even get pixlated (like segas super scaler, or SFC stuff), when the NG isn't capable of scale up stuff?

wears teh experts?

Unfortunately, the SNES kicked off the pixelation-as-an-aesthetic craze, which carried over through the 32-bit generation. Just as Neo Geo games succumbed to the pre-rendered cgi craze, any other effects you see that are outside its abilities are just pre-rendered animation, as they are on other hardware that don't support them. To this day, lots of people prefer shrinking/growing (and other misc) effects to be pixelated instead of looking like frames of artwork.

[EvilEvoIX]

STATUS: ... ... ...

I can't fight all these battles at once, you're killing me smalls.....

I'm new to the Neo-Geo debate, but if the VDP only sees memory that is read-only and is not accessible by the CPU, then obviously software rendering of anything is out the window. Unless you use...as everyone has said...a special cart that makes the memory writable and copies in whatever the CPU has drawn.

The Oxygene cube video is neat, but I'd be surprised if there was much more you could get out of that technique than what they're showing.

Also:

We are also ignoring that the SNES required special chips to do mode 7, why is that constantly being ignored?

What? Not in the cartridge, it didn't. Mario Kart used a DSP chip, but F-Zero used nothing.

Systems can't do things until you make them do things.  That Tech demo cube thingy is more of a proof of concept versus what is being done.  Doing 3D on a Neo Geo is kinda weird as it was designed as a 2D power house.  That said the M6800 is more than capable if tapped properly.

Can the Neo Geo do exactly mode 7 grafx?  probably not but it can do something  similar enough and it would be faster, higher resolution, and more color.

[esteban]

STATUS: ... ... ...

I can't fight all these battles at once, you're killing me smalls.....

I'm just teasing you . Don't worry about me. I love Genesis/MegaDrive.

[Joe Redifer]

SNES games are more colorful than Neo Geo games. Neo Geo games look good, but they are still dither-city.

[Tatsujin]

i always considered the dither stlye as an art style of neo games, since it looked much different to f.e. mega drive dither style, which existed only for one reason to illusionat more on-screen colors which weren't available in the first place.

snes games are just more poppy, but never much colored as neo games.

take last resort f.e., quite some dithered stuff, but in terms of colors it looks 10 times better than anything on the snes ever.

[esteban]

i always considered the dither stlye as an art style of neo games, since it looked much different to f.e. mega drive dither style, which existed only for one reason to illusionat more on-screen colors which weren't available in the first place.

snes games are just more poppy, but never much colored as neo games.

take last resort f.e., quite some dithered stuff, but in terms of colors it looks 10 times better than anything on the snes ever.

Absolutely! I, too, think of dithering as an artistic technique (not merely a technical method for overcoming palette constraints).

Dithering, cross-hatching, engraving, wood-cutting, whittling, etc.

I don't mind dithering, usually. It's like all artforms: the hate/love is determined by the execution of the technique.

DITHERING + 2D > 3D + foggy mist effects

[KnightWarrior]

Final Fight CD
Sonic CD

[Joe Redifer]

So wait... dithering is shit on the Genesis but absolutely fantastic on the Neo Geo? Only on the PCEFX forums :rolleyes:

The Neo does color dithering just like the Genesis. Look at the skies.  Never are there smooth gradients like the SNES. NEVER. Instead, every other layer is dithered. Art style?  Suuuuuuure. That looks waaay better than a smooth gradient (which apparently the Neo Geo cannot do).

[bob]

So wait... dithering is shit on the Genesis but absolutely fantastic on the Neo Geo? Only on the PCEFX forums :rolleyes:

The Neo does color dithering just like the Genesis. Look at the skies.  Never are there smooth gradients like the SNES. NEVER. Instead, every other layer is dithered. Art style?  Suuuuuuure. That looks waaay better than a smooth gradient (which apparently the Neo Geo cannot do).

can't do mode 7 either.

[Joe Redifer]

Certainly not as well as the SNES but it might be interesting to see what it could do in the software. Pier Solar on the Genesis has a Mode 7 (all scaling and rotation is Mode 7, the internet says so) but it's in a small window and rather blocky.

[bob]

Certainly not as well as the SNES but it might be interesting to see what it could do in the software. Pier Solar on the Genesis has a Mode 7 (all scaling and rotation is Mode 7, the internet says so) but it's in a small window and rather blocky.

Oh, HA, I was talking about NG.

[EvilEvoIX]

Mode 7 is a SNES hardware trick that has scaling and rotation.  This is also facilitated by the most part on the SNES by additional helper chips that in effect are additional hardware.  The snes needs this due to a weak 16-processor that couldn't possible run it.  The MEGADRIVE cannot do mode 7 however the M6800 can more than do it via hardware computation.  The neo geo more so as it has the same processor and its almost twice as fast.  It would need to do it with large animated sprites however or tricks beyond our understanding like that 3D cube I posted.  It's all up to the programmer.

[bob]

...oh god, not more of this.
I'm sorry. 

[SamIAm]

You heard it here, folks. The SNES can't do mode-7 effects, but the Genesis can.

[sunteam_paul]

Here's a video of running on the ZX Spectrum. Therefore all your arguments are invalid.