I'm going to start Wind Waker

[Bernie]

Once you make it past the stealth castle bullshit this game all falls into place. I had zero trouble staying interested. This one and Link's Awakening are my favorites.

I second this notion!

[glazball]

  I'm a huge Zelda fan, and like Wind Waker, but I have to say it's not the best Zelda.  Nor will you finish it in 3 days, though of course it all depends on how much exploring you want to do.
  My complaint about the game is that your map is all ocean, divided into a grid.  Each grid square has one island to explore which is imo a huge copout, as was N's decision to make the game cel-shaded rather than the polygons we were expecting.  It's fun and playable, but somehow without the vast plains and other (land) areas of previous Zelda games, it missed the mark for me.
  And yes, my dumb ass will be buying the Wii U version too.

Not to strike up this old debate, but: horseshit. This game looks fantastic. Far better than Twilight Princess's ugly brown bullshit.

  You're saying "horseshit" to a different argument here bud.

  I never said WW didn't look good, I said it was a copout for N to use cel shading.  In the early videos we saw when the GC first game out, Link was rendered with in 3D gorgeously.  We expected the next Zelda to look that way, but obviously N didn't have the time.  It was a time-saving measure, one I wasn't a fan of, but I won't deny it gave the game a unique look that's endearing in it's own way.

  I still stand by my statement that overall, it's a low point in the Zelda series.  I've owned and played them all since the first

[SignOfZeta]

I think you're full of shit. You say you don't dislike the look of it, then you say it's a low point for no other reason than its looks. That just doesn't make any sense.

And the idea that Nintendo somehow took the easy way out by going with this look for WW...how do you even get that idea? What, pray tell, is "easier" about it? Personally I think they just wanted to give us something other than a higher spec N64 game. A great number of fanboys shit their diapers when the WW look was revealed. It was quite divisive and controversial (evidently still is). The "cop out" would have been just continuing with the TooT look only slightly better because of the better hardware. I'm extremely glad they didn't do this. I may have never even noticed another Toot-looking game. I really hate that brown bullshit.

[bob]

I think you're full of shit. You say you don't dislike the look of it, then you say it's a low point for no other reason than its looks. That just doesn't make any sense.

And the idea that Nintendo somehow took the easy way out by going with this look for WW...how do you even get that idea? What, pray tell, is "easier" about it? Personally I think they just wanted to give us something other than a higher spec N64 game. A great number of fanboys shit their diapers when the WW look was revealed. It was quite divisive and controversial (evidently still is). The "cop out" would have been just continuing with the TooT look only slightly better because of the better hardware. I'm extremely glad they didn't do this. I may have never even noticed another Toot-looking game. I really hate that brown bullshit.

I agree here. I didnt think it was a cop out at all, actually refreshing. The cell shading fit the zelda feel pretty well. It was funny because I kept saying to myself, "this almost looks like Link running around in a Mario setting."

[DragonmasterDan]

I agree here. I didnt think it was a cop out at all, actually refreshing. The cell shading fit the zelda feel pretty well. It was funny because I kept saying to myself, "this almost looks like Link running around in a Mario setting."

The game definitely looked great. I think a lot of people bought into a mindset that "Cel shaded must mean it's for kids" and dismissed the game on that alone.

It's my favorite Zelda game and I still think the best looking. The choices made with aesthetics were fantastic, and innovations made with cel shading in that game still have it among my favorite games from a visual standpoint ever.

Let alone the fact that it's a great playing game, with great music, level design and a huge ocean to explore. Sure, there's a few tedious spots here and there, and the main quest is a little short. But overall a masterpiece.

[bob]

It made me chuckle that all the people in the villages look like Wii people

[Bernie]

Yeah, I must admit.  I feel Nintendo made a good move making the game Cel Shaded.  I actually like it a lot.  It did give it a cartoon look, and if you judged a book by its cover, you missed a GREAT game.  I cannot see for the life of my how it would have made the game easier/cheaper to make....  We all know Nintendo does what they want, and if they wanted to make it like Twilight Princess or Ocarina, then they would have done exactly that.  They wanted something different, and they brought us a master piece!

[glazball]

  Never thought I'd be on the hate-receiving end of a Zelda discussion.

I think you're full of shit. You say you don't dislike the look of it, then you say it's a low point for no other reason than its looks. That just doesn't make any sense.

And the idea that Nintendo somehow took the easy way out by going with this look for WW...how do you even get that idea? What, pray tell, is "easier" about it? Personally I think they just wanted to give us something other than a higher spec N64 game. A great number of fanboys shit their diapers when the WW look was revealed. It was quite divisive and controversial (evidently still is). The "cop out" would have been just continuing with the TooT look only slightly better because of the better hardware. I'm extremely glad they didn't do this. I may have never even noticed another Toot-looking game. I really hate that brown bullshit.

 I'm no game designer, but cmon - rendering a world with cel-shaded 2D characters/items obviously has to be easier to pull off than a world made of polygons.  Easier on the artists, easier on the hardware.  If I'm so full of shit as you eloquently described me Zeta, why hasn't N made another Zelda game in a similar style since?

[KingDrool]

If I'm so full of shit as you eloquently described me Zeta, why hasn't N made another Zelda game in a similar style since?

Beyond that, you have no real argument that it was a "time-saving cop-out" beyond your own dislike of the game. I don't want to get into a whole nerd thing with you here, and Zeta pretty much covered my stance.

EDIT: And...Nando seals the deal below. Verdict: horseshit.

[Nando]

 rendering a world with cel-shaded 2D characters/items obviously has to be easier to pull off than a world made of polygons. 

Scratches head...um they are still polygons dude, the textures and the lighting engine is what is different.

[Necromancer]

Flat colors do make it easier to make, as it eliminates creating, applying, and aligning a bunch of different textures; and the more primitive lighting does require less processing oomph.  But who gives a shit?  It looks good, and that's more than a lot of generic/ugly games can say with their processor intensive lighting schemes and poorly drawn yet 'harder to make' textures.

[SignOfZeta]

This person has no clue what cel shading even is. Thinks that it's 2D, and that somehow 2D was less labor intensive for developers in 2003, which it certain wasn't.

Thinks Wind Waker was a such a failure that Nintendo EOLed the art style, not aparently knowing of the two DS games that look exactly like it (but aren't as good of games, IMO).

Wind Waker:

Reviews:

GameRankings   94.43%
Metacritic   96% (80 reviews)

Famitsu   40 of 40
Game Informer   10 of 10
GameSpot   9.3 of 10
IGN   9.6 of 10

Wind Waker sold 4.6 million copies world wide, which is probably why they felt confident in using its art style in Phantom Hourglass, which sold 4.95 million, which is probably why they felt confident in using it again for Spirit Tracks, which sold 3.17 million copies.

EDIT: Probably also why Wind Waker is the one they've chosen to give the HD treatment to on the WiiU, which will also sell millions.

As much as some people bitch about the look, Wind Waker is one the the most significant Nintendo games of all time, artistically and fiscally, and its look seems to be very popular with most people. The squeaky wheel gets the greese though, right?

[Black Tiger]

  Never thought I'd be on the hate-receiving end of a Zelda discussion.

I think you're full of shit. You say you don't dislike the look of it, then you say it's a low point for no other reason than its looks. That just doesn't make any sense.

And the idea that Nintendo somehow took the easy way out by going with this look for WW...how do you even get that idea? What, pray tell, is "easier" about it? Personally I think they just wanted to give us something other than a higher spec N64 game. A great number of fanboys shit their diapers when the WW look was revealed. It was quite divisive and controversial (evidently still is). The "cop out" would have been just continuing with the TooT look only slightly better because of the better hardware. I'm extremely glad they didn't do this. I may have never even noticed another Toot-looking game. I really hate that brown bullshit.

 I'm no game designer, but cmon - rendering a world with cel-shaded 2D characters/items obviously has to be easier to pull off than a world made of polygons.  Easier on the artists, easier on the hardware.  If I'm so full of

Llshit as you eloquently described me Zeta, why hasn't N made another Zelda game in a similar style since?

Maybe the PS2 was your first console or something, but there's a reason why cel shading style didn't come to video games until the Dreamcast era. Flat shaded polygons are completely different, but it sounds like you thought that Wind Waker is actually some kind of Doom mod anyway.

I love the art style of Wind Waker, even though I wanted something like Twilight Princess beforehand. But I don't like the design of the hero.

[bob]

...
Wind Waker sold 4.6 million copies world wide...

Christ, REALLY? I guess the quality really is the reason its getting so much on the 'bay now?
I didnt know it sold that many.

[_joshuaTurbo]

  Never thought I'd be on the hate-receiving end of a Zelda discussion.

I think you're full of shit. You say you don't dislike the look of it, then you say it's a low point for no other reason than its looks. That just doesn't make any sense.

And the idea that Nintendo somehow took the easy way out by going with this look for WW...how do you even get that idea? What, pray tell, is "easier" about it? Personally I think they just wanted to give us something other than a higher spec N64 game. A great number of fanboys shit their diapers when the WW look was revealed. It was quite divisive and controversial (evidently still is). The "cop out" would have been just continuing with the TooT look only slightly better because of the better hardware. I'm extremely glad they didn't do this. I may have never even noticed another Toot-looking game. I really hate that brown bullshit.

 I'm no game designer, but cmon - rendering a world with cel-shaded 2D characters/items obviously has to be easier to pull off than a world made of polygons.  Easier on the artists, easier on the hardware.  If I'm so full of

Llshit as you eloquently described me Zeta, why hasn't N made another Zelda game in a similar style since?

Maybe the PS2 was your first console or something, but there's a reason why cel shading style didn't come to video games until the Dreamcast era. Flat shaded polygons are completely different, but it sounds like you thought that Wind Waker is actually some kind of Doom mod anyway.

I love the art style of Wind Waker, even though I wanted something like Twilight Princess beforehand. But I don't like the design of the hero.

I thought Cel shading came to the 32-bit era in a couple PSone games too...

IIRC, Sonic Council on the Saturn was the first cel shaded game I played.