Girly CD's part of complete set?

[DragonmasterDan]

You'd have an argument if Tommo made a Turbo Grafx X that was emulation based and only a Turbo in name (as with the Neo Geo X) but the Turbo PAC is ABSOLUTELY a Turbografx. It has the same CPU and graphics chips, the same controller socket, a HuCard slot, runs everything a Duo will, is officially licensed and partially manufactured by NEC and has Turbo Grafx logo RIGHT ON THE f*ckER. If it had the proper sockets on the back it wouldn't even need an LA to be a functioning Turbo Grafx (note to self: that would be a cool mod).

If it isn't a Turbo Graphx then I'm Robert Redford.

The hardware is the same ICUs using the same architecture. I don't disagree that the PAC qualifies as a member of the TurboGrafx Family. My opinion is simply that the LA specific games that run only on the Laseractive are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based LaserActive games.

Added in Edit: As far as the Neo-Geo CD goes the reason I used that as a comparison was even though the games were modified to load into RAM. From my understanding it's architecturally identical to the AES. A far more apt comparison is Sega/Mega CDs and Mega LDs. Simply put I hold the same rule true. Mega LDs are Sega/Mega CD hardware based games that run on the LaserActive, they are not Sega/Mega CDs themselves.

[vestcoat]

LA specific games that run only on the Laseractive are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based LaserActive games.

And CD specific games that run only on the CD-ROM2 drives are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based CD games.

Picture this: the Laseractive is just a really big, console-swallowing, Super CD ROM. Like the SCD and its little elbow power cable, the Laseractive passes power along to the HE system. It provides an AV out. It provides an optical drive.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, the Laseractive itself is barely more than a mid-tier LD player from the early 90s. It can't execute any code other than the TOC on a standard CD/LD. The PACs do absolutely everything that we know to be "game", including the boot screen.

The LA itself produces whatever video and sound are on the disc, provides overlay capabilities, responds to specific commands from the PAC (play, stop, skip) and...I'm not sure it it can actually do anything else. All that stuff is built into every LD player, come to think of it. Somehow the PAC reads code from the LDROM2s/MegaLDs, but I'm not sure exactly how. That might actually just be hidden in the digital audio tracks and completely transparent to the LA itself.

As grandios as it looks, I'm pretty sure there was actually more "game system" in the CDROM2 systems. They actually had dedicated RAM and save space. On the LA, all that stuff is in the PAC.

[Otaking]

The answer to the OP question is simplicity in itself.
First you have define a "complete set", simply are you going for a complete retail licensed release set or collecting everything.
These are the two common goals for collecting for most consoles.
So if you decide from the outset that you are going for a complete retail licensed release set then you can forget about the Hawaiian ladies.

[DragonmasterDan]

And CD specific games that run only on the CD-ROM2 drives are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based CD games.

Picture this: the Laseractive is just a really big, console-swallowing, Super CD ROM. Like the SCD and its little elbow power cable, the Laseractive passes power along to the HE system. It provides an AV out. It provides an optical drive.

I'm not aware of any that run only on the CDROM2, I'm pretty sure (short of PC Engine Altered Beast which I know has system card compatibility issues) all US released games can be played on a CDROM add on with the appropriate system card, OR a Duo.

[DragonmasterDan]

The LA itself produces whatever video and sound are on the disc, provides overlay capabilities, responds to specific commands from the PAC (play, stop, skip) and...I'm not sure it it can actually do anything else. All that stuff is built into every LD player, come to think of it. Somehow the PAC reads code from the LDROM2s/MegaLDs, but I'm not sure exactly how. That might actually just be hidden in the digital audio tracks and completely transparent to the LA itself.

The LA loads almost everything used during the game into it's digital memory and then overlays the video from that. There's a resolution difference when an LA games video is played back just as LD video compared to when played during a game since the stored digital memory outputs at a lower resolution. There's also a little digital video light on the front that indicates the digital memory is in use most of the time if you're playing an LA game where it has moving video. Generally speaking it's not actively streaming stuff off the disc, but is loading what's needed for the next 15 or so seconds into digital memory.

[vestcoat]

I'm not aware of any that run only on the CDROM2, I'm pretty sure (short of PC Engine Altered Beast which I know has system card compatibility issues) all US released games can be played on a CDROM add on with the appropriate system card, OR a Duo.

So... if Turbografx media can be played on multiple pieces of hardware, it's a TurboGrafx game. If it can only be played on one piece of hardware, it's a separate platform?

CD games aren't compatible with all of the U.S. hardware (i.e. the TurboExpress) and LD games aren't compatible with all of the U.S. hardware, what's the difference? For whatever reason, NEC left some things incompatible. If the TG and laserdiscs had been more successful, we would have seen more LD hardware and your "exclusive hardware" argument would be bullshit (which it is). If the TG had died sooner, the Duo wouldn't exist and you'd be arguing that CD-ROMs are a "separate platform" (which they're not).

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to continue arguing, stop saying "I feel" and "I see" and try to make a logical statement.

[vestcoat]

Oh, I see my statement was confusing. Here's a fixed version:

LA specific games that run only on the Laseractive are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based LaserActive games.

And CD specific games that run only on the CD-ROM systems are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based CD games.

There. See that your argument applies equally to CD games? Therefore, if CD games are TurboGrafx games, LA games are Turbografx games.

[DragonmasterDan]

So... if Turbografx media can be played on multiple pieces of hardware, it's a TurboGrafx game. If it can only be played on one piece of hardware, it's a separate platform?

Again, this is where we get into the distinction of use of the word "TurboGrafx game". If a game can only be played on one member of the TurboGrafx family, I see it as being a game specific to that member of the family. If a game can be played on multiple, then an argument can be made for it being a game that encompasses the family.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to continue arguing, stop saying "I feel" and "I see" and try to make a logical statement.

The reason I'm saying I feel or see is these things are opinions. How someone chooses to categorize something is completely up to them. With regards to the LA not having any extra hardware. I made a quick demonstration video to show the Digital Video that it uses. The LA provides digital video memory (IE some extra hardware) rather than simply being a different media format than the CD or Super-CDROM games.

[DragonmasterDan]

There. See that your argument applies equally to CD games? Therefore, if CD games are TurboGrafx games, LA games are Turbografx games.

Here's the argument.

If US released games using TurboGrafx architecture can be played on multiple hardware configurations = TurboGrafx games
If US released games using TurboGrafx architecture can be played only on one hardware configuration = TurboGrafx powered game specific to that hardware configuration

[Black Tiger]

The reason I'm saying I feel or see is these things are opinions. How someone chooses to categorize something is completely up to them. With regards to the LA not having any extra hardware. I made a quick demonstration video to show the Digital Video that it uses. The LA provides digital video memory (IE some extra hardware) rather than simply being a different media format than the CD or Super-CDROM games.

The CD-ROM adds extra backup ram, adpcm and redbook audio streaming hardware.

[TheClash603]

Oh, I see my statement was confusing. Here's a fixed version:

LA specific games that run only on the Laseractive are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based LaserActive games.

And CD specific games that run only on the CD-ROM systems are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based CD games.

There. See that your argument applies equally to CD games? Therefore, if CD games are TurboGrafx games, LA games are Turbografx games.

Vestcoat has gotten into my logic stream, because it makes complete sense.

Dan is a little confused still, but he will get on board soon enough

[DragonmasterDan]

The CD-ROM adds extra backup ram, adpcm and redbook audio streaming hardware.

Correct the reason I brought up the fact that everything on the LA running in digital memory was in response to Zeta's comment  quoted below.

"The LA itself produces whatever video and sound are on the disc, provides overlay capabilities, responds to specific commands from the PAC (play, stop, skip) and...I'm not sure it it can actually do anything else. All that stuff is built into every LD player, come to think of it."

So there is some hardware in the LA used for playing games that isn't found in every LD player out there.

That isn't even the whole point here though. This was simply to debunk the idea that LD-ROM2 games are simply Super CDs on a LaserDisc and should be treated the same. My feeling with regards to categorization remains what I stated above.

If US released games using TurboGrafx architecture can be played on multiple hardware configurations = TurboGrafx games
If US released games using TurboGrafx architecture can be played only on one hardware configuration = TurboGrafx powered game specific to that hardware configuration

[DragonmasterDan]

Oh, I see my statement was confusing. Here's a fixed version:

LA specific games that run only on the Laseractive are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based LaserActive games.

And CD specific games that run only on the CD-ROM systems are not TurboGrafx games but are TurboGrafx based CD games.

There. See that your argument applies equally to CD games? Therefore, if CD games are TurboGrafx games, LA games are Turbografx games.

Vestcoat has gotten into my logic stream, because it makes complete sense.

Dan is a little confused still, but he will get on board soon enough

I don't actually disagree with classifying them as CD based TurboGrafx games. But they're playable on multiple configurations.

If there were no US Super CD system card and no Laseractive, and there were Super CD games released in the US. I actually would count those as seperate from regular CD-ROM releases or HuCards for example. Because they could only be played on the Duo, I'd call them Duo games. However, since there is a US Super CD System card (and the laseractive) it's usable on a wider variety of hardware, and thusly is categorized under a wider banner.

[esteban]

The reason I'm saying I feel or see is these things are opinions. How someone chooses to categorize something is completely up to them. With regards to the LA not having any extra hardware. I made a quick demonstration video to show the Digital Video that it uses. The LA provides digital video memory (IE some extra hardware) rather than simply being a different media format than the CD or Super-CDROM games.

The CD-ROM adds extra backup ram, adpcm and redbook audio streaming hardware.

I finally see what Dan is saying. The LA adds an extra layer of hardware-specific requirements to the BASE SYSTEM for CD-ROM...namely, LD games rely on caching the video, something only the LA has the capacity to do. Now, there might be additional LA-specific dependencies for LD-ROM (possibly some video overlay capabilities?), but even if there aren't, video caching alone means that development for LD was quite specific.

I find it hilarious that folks are arguing vehemently with Dan over the classification of PCE LD-ROM. Ha!






I don't really care about this hullaballoo, to be honest. THE TECHNICAL DISTINCTIONS CAN SUCK MY LEFT ONE. Yes, I'm saying that to EVERYONE, especially the folks arguing against Dan, because they are stoopid.

As soon as discussions devolve into this stuff, you miss the BIG PICTURE:

Esteban's Law: If something genuinely captures the spirit of TG-16/PCE, then it IS TG-16/PCE. Period.

Therefore...
SUPERGRAFX and the SUPER HuCARD = PCE = TG-16.

LD-ROM = motherf*ckin' unobtainable fantasy for me (but of course it is TG-16 / PCE).

PC-FX is NOT TG-16/PCE, because PC-FX can suck my left one.

HUDSON games on other platforms are NOT TG-16/PCE, because they can suck my left one.

PCE GT/TurboExpress is TG-16/PCE.

North American cover art IS TG-16/PCE, naysayers can suck on a Japanophile's left one.

BLAZING LAZERS is an honorary member of the Star Soldier series because you COMPILE blowhards can suck my left one.

"SHMUP" is most-f*cking-definitely NOT TG-16/PCE. This imbecilic term "shmup" is a f*cking disgrace to dullards across the cosmos, let alone Earth-bound fans of the genre. Personally, I'm ashamed the genre I love has been sullied by this designation.




NOTE: Yes, I am purposefully conflating all categories into ONE, namely "TG-16/PCE", because TG-16/PCE is all that matters. I will die knowing this is the Truth. Godspeed, comrades.