If you'd been in charge of NEC U.S./TTI what would've been your ideal TG-16 set?

[Arkhan]

That's the other area where it got kinda gimped.   The platformers don't compare to what Sonic was doing.  They're fun, sure, but they don't quite do it.

I mean between Vector Man, Sonic 1, 2, 3, and Sonic & Knuckles, there wasn't much platforming the Turbo Grafx could've done to keep up.

I prefer Bonk any day, mostly because of the cartoony aspect of it, but really, Sonic and shit demonstrated alot more crap.  and then Nintendo got Kirby and Kirby Super Star.

So, Nintendo and Sega gangbanged the platforming market.

[Black Tiger]

Regarding the whole RPG thing:

The reason people bring this up is because by 1992 the PC Engine was, primarily, in Japan, a machine focused mostly on RPGs or things like RPGs, such as simulations and strategy games. While the PCE couldn't do Final Fantasy VI (f*ck off, Black Tiger, seriously, f*ck off) the SNES sure as f*ck couldn't do Gulliver Boy or Cosmic Fantasy 4. The CDROM2 allowed for some shit no cart based system could and RPGs and RPG type games utilized these strengths the best.

Western developed games were basically a write off. Aside from EA sports and Mortal Kombat, "Western" games were basically shit like Home Alone and Cliffhanger. More or less a write off, not just on the Turbo, but on every system. See: why the Jaguar sucked. Its hard to imagine this now in the age of World of Warcaft and Call of Doody, but back then American games weren't very good sellers usually.

So we weren't going to make our own games leaving the TG-16 library to mainly consist of "most stuff but not the RPGs". The most lavish and grandiose Japanese releases were the RPGs. In short, what the PCE was being primarily groomed to do...we didn't get. We get the left overs. The PCE's biggest publisher was Hudson, Hudson's biggest series, Tengai Makyou (and Momotaro, but we'll forget that) never came out here.

And why didn't we get RPGs? Because they were selling like crap in the US and they cost a f*cking ton of money to translate. Should TTI have spent money they didn't have translating games that wouldn't sell? I don't know, it wouldn't have saved the Turbo, but it would make for some nice stuff to play now. Go to eBay and find a copy of Final Fantasy III (VI) or Earthbound (Mother 2). Now find the Japanese version. Notice that a US copy is selling for $70 and a JP copy is thrown in with one of those "100 SFC games for $100 lots?". Actually, those 100 game lots have nearly EVERY big time SFC RPG in them, including stuff like Saga and Tactics Ogre. These games are worthless now because they made sooooo many copies of them. In the US they sold %10 as many copies. People love them now in a post-FF VII setting, but either didn't know them or hated them 20 years ago.

Dracula X: Its true this game would have been popular, and much cheaper to translate than RPGs, but don't forget that in 1993 the super stiff as hell platforming genre was effectively dead. People were playing things like Mario World and Sonic 2 when your little guy would just fly all over the f*cking place. Rondo was "retro" fest even when it was new. It would have achieved cult classic status but that would have probably have been it, it wouldn't have moved 200,000 Duos. I would have a VERY shitty cover and be worth $1000 now.

The TG16 was basically f*cked. There is no way it could have been much more successful that it actually was.

As the percentage of your ongoing posts which belong more in Fighting Street than the threads you respond in continues to increase, maybe you should just create your own thread in Fighting Street and post responses with quotes there. It would of course be much simpler to just control your emotions and post responsibly, but it seems that you are becoming increasingly unable to do so.


In response to what the SNES can and cannot do, it certainly could do close enough versions of Gulliver Boy and Cosmic Fantasy 4. The redbook music could be replaced by chip tunes and the voice acting wouldn't be worth keeping, but however much content is kept after that would just depend how much storage space a publisher is willing to allow. A large cart using some kind of hardware compression like Star Ocean and Tengai Makyou Zero would allow a faithful enough conversion to still be impressive (look at the quality of the cinemas in the tiny Valis III MD), but the core gameplay would be intact and that's what matters most. Short of low level animation, no console can perfectly recreate a game from another. All that matters is that the end product is still worthwhile. Final Fantasy IV for Wonderswan is a good example. Dracula XX is a bad example.

[geise]

More RPG's wouldn't have helped TTI at all.  They were still a niche genre in the U.S. around the Duo's launch and 94 when it was basically done.  RPG's were not system sellers then.  It was fighting and platformers, or it was games trying something new like Star Fox, jumping on the whole 3D thing.

[Arkhan]

More RPG's wouldn't have helped TTI at all.  They were still a niche genre in the U.S. around the Duo's launch and 94 when it was basically done.  RPG's were not system sellers then.  It was fighting and platformers, or it was games trying something new like Star Fox, jumping on the whole 3D thing.

They weren't system sellers, maybe.  Depends who you ask.

But, it still would've helped to show that the library had more variety. 

[Marll]

I'll have to really think about some of the swaps since the only one I can think of right now is swapping Victory Run for Outrun since that had an arcade presence in the US so would be recognized.

I think that one of the HUGE failings of NEC early on was changing the box art of the games. They should have taken the EXACT same art of the Japanese release in 99% of cases and just translated the text. In the store sitting next to Genesis games at the time the box art looked WAY too goofy for your average uninformed consumer, and they gravitated towards the cooler box art of the Genesis. If it weren't for that I think that the novelty of HuCards and CDs would have turned more heads because let's face it, those chips and CDs were some f*cking high tech looking shit at the time.

[Arkhan]

yeah the box art for the US games was retarded.

China Warrior looked like some newspaper comic strip shit.

[mac]

Box art was/is still hideous lol.

Have to believe that if the Duo had launched along with Mortal Kombat as an exclusive history would have been different.

[turboswimbz]

Box art was/is still hideous lol.

Have to believe that if the Duo had launched along with Mortal Kombat as an exclusive history would have been different.

I've thought about this for a long time.  There is no way that the TG would have lasted too much longer than it did.  While maybe some exclusive games would have prolonged the system a little.  Either way by the end of 94 the system would have been dead, the PC-FX was a huge failure overseas and couldn't be brought here, without a successor NEC would be lost in the realm of SNES, Genesis, Saturn, N64 and playstations.  The era was coming to a close towards the end of it's life and it died when it should of, but along the way it re-wrote history of games, pushed companies overseas such as Sega to push what video games are, and eventually led to companies like Sony to push gaming into the mainstream. The very best we could have hoped for was a better legacy that everyone knows.  But given the way most serious game players and collectors revere the system I like the way things turned out. 

That being said I'd loved it if there were games like mortal kombat, some of the great PCE shooters, and some more RPGs translated.  A few more platformers couldn't have hurt either. 

[SignOfZeta]

Box art was/is still hideous lol.

Have to believe that if the Duo had launched along with Mortal Kombat as an exclusive history would have been different.

Yeah, TTI would have gone broke even faster from having payed a gigantic exclusivity fee, robbing us of even more good games. 

[esteban]

MEMO TO ALL JAPANOPHILES: Suck my left one. The North American boxart was a GIFT FROM THE GAMING GODS. In real life, nobody looked at cover art for more than a few seconds because they FLIPPED THE BOX OVER TO LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS.

SCREENSHOTS determined whether a game was going to be purchased (in conjunction with magazine reviews).

HATIN' ON COVERART is silly.

FURTHERMORE: All consoles were plagued with poor coverart.

Dig up one of the old threads where I defend North American cover art. SUCK MY LEFT ONE, Japanophiles.

[mac]

MEMO TO ALL JAPANOPHILES: Suck my left one. The North American boxart was a GIFT FROM THE GAMING GODS. In real life, nobody looked at cover art for more than a few seconds because they FLIPPED THE BOX OVER TO LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS.

SCREENSHOTS determined whether a game was going to be purchased (in conjunction with magazine reviews).

HATIN' ON COVERART is silly.

FURTHERMORE: All consoles were plagued with poor coverart.

Dig up one of the old threads where I defend North American cover art. SUCK MY LEFT ONE, Japanophiles.

LOL, well yeah it was better than the Master System.

If I am not mistaken was it not Midway who approached TTI about Mortal Kombat ? Not too mention the Duo was releasing at the same time in N.A. If the Duo was to gain any steam that would have been the time. Then MAYBE TTI could have brought even more games

Have to spend money to make it

[esteban]

MEMO TO ALL JAPANOPHILES: Suck my left one. The North American boxart was a GIFT FROM THE GAMING GODS. In real life, nobody looked at cover art for more than a few seconds because they FLIPPED THE BOX OVER TO LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS.

SCREENSHOTS determined whether a game was going to be purchased (in conjunction with magazine reviews).

HATIN' ON COVERART is silly.

FURTHERMORE: All consoles were plagued with poor coverart.

Dig up one of the old threads where I defend North American cover art. SUCK MY LEFT ONE, Japanophiles.

LOL, well yeah it was better than the Master System.

[Sadler]

MEMO TO ALL JAPANOPHILES: Suck my left one. The North American boxart was a GIFT FROM THE GAMING GODS. In real life, nobody looked at cover art for more than a few seconds because they FLIPPED THE BOX OVER TO LOOK AT SCREENSHOTS.

SCREENSHOTS determined whether a game was going to be purchased (in conjunction with magazine reviews).

HATIN' ON COVERART is silly.

FURTHERMORE: All consoles were plagued with poor coverart.

Dig up one of the old threads where I defend North American cover art. SUCK MY LEFT ONE, Japanophiles.

YES! 

Additionally, the problem wasn't shitty titles out here. The problem was a small library, lack of system sellers (and other awesome, but perhaps not system sellers), and a lack of recognizable games for a US audience. I wouldn't have traded any game US game. I would have assumed I had all the money in the world and brought out a shit ton of games that didn't make it here. Games like:

Anearth Fantasy Stories
Afterburner II
Batman
Bomberman '94
Carmen Sandiego
Castlevania - Rondo of Blood
Coryoon
Double Dragon II
Down Load
Down Load 2
Faceball
Far East of Eden (all)
Flash Hiders
Fray
Kaze Kiri
Legend of Xanadu
Legend of Xanadu II
Lemmings
Metamor Jupiter
Ninja Gaiden
Operation Wolf
Outrun
Panic Bomber
Puyo Puyo
Populous
Rayxanbar II
Schbibin Man 3
Snatcher
Shinobi
Son Son II
Star Parodiar
Street Fighter II
Super Darius
Ys IV - Dawn of Ys

Again, I wouldn't throw out any US release. I know, that totally breaks the spirit of this thread, but lack of titles was a much bigger problem than quality titles. The list I gave is hardly a comprehensive, but that's the kind of games I'd be focusing on.

[A Black Falcon]

Box art was/is still hideous lol.

Have to believe that if the Duo had launched along with Mortal Kombat as an exclusive history would have been different.

I've thought about this for a long time.  There is no way that the TG would have lasted too much longer than it did.  While maybe some exclusive games would have prolonged the system a little.  Either way by the end of 94 the system would have been dead, the PC-FX was a huge failure overseas and couldn't be brought here, without a successor NEC would be lost in the realm of SNES, Genesis, Saturn, N64 and playstations.  The era was coming to a close towards the end of it's life and it died when it should of, but along the way it re-wrote history of games, pushed companies overseas such as Sega to push what video games are, and eventually led to companies like Sony to push gaming into the mainstream. The very best we could have hoped for was a better legacy that everyone knows.  But given the way most serious game players and collectors revere the system I like the way things turned out. 

That being said I'd loved it if there were games like mortal kombat, some of the great PCE shooters, and some more RPGs translated.  A few more platformers couldn't have hurt either. 

I think that what you'd need to do to get the TG16 more successful in the West includes a few things... first, release it in 1988 instead of 1989; second, release it in Europe (and in '89, preferably, '90 at the latest); and last, actually try to sell it nationwide, with better marketing, so as to try to keep little Sega from beating NEC.

Because really, the only way to get a better '90s situation for the TG16 is to change thigns from the beginning.  When the Genesis beat the TG16 in 1989, and people wanted Altered Beast more than Keith Courage or the other TG16 games... well, it was only downhill from there for the system.  I mean, losing to Sonic I could understand, that's one of the great games of all time.  But losing to Altered Beast, really?  That game really isn't that great... they must have been able to do better.  (I personally think that Keith Courage is actually good, too, though I know some people disagree on that point.)

I mean, getting Mortal Kombat and/or Castlevania Rondo of Blood in 1992-1993 would have been pretty awesome, but by that point it was way too late to turn things around, people had already made their choices for the SNES or Genesis.

And on that note, one issue with some of these game swaps is, are the games people are proposint to swap them for actually available when that US release released?  Because if they weren't yet, that's not really a swap that could have worked...

[Arkhan]

Keith Courage > Altered Beast.