Super Grafx Arcade Card attempt?

[touko]

Do you not think its possible to devise an enhanced HuVIDEO spec that requires the SGX?

i think no, because the sgx, is a PCE 1.5, just with a second vdc, and ram,and for video/audio processing, it's nothing else than a PCE ..

For that, i think than Md is more capable ..

[soop]

Final Fight is hard to do, at least properly.  I've looked into a bunch of this stuff, and even with 128 sprites it's hard to do right.  If you think of Crest of Wolf, with its 4 (large) (wait, or is it 3.5?) sprites on-screen, Final fight could possibly handle 8, scaled down FF sprites, but then no weapons.  You don't need 8 people on screen unless IIRC you're doing an arcade perfect conversion, you could do something like 5 and have some of the weapons.

What you migth be able to do nicely is a cut-down version of Sunset riders.  But it would still be hard to make a SNES port, you'd have to aim for something slightly nicer than the MD version.

tl;dr: Supergrafx and it's 128 sprites is very attractive, and 2 MB+ of sprite data isn't hard to use, but it's questionable whether it's enough for some things.

[spenoza]

All tech demos (even ones for PCE CD2) are a lot of work that could be spent towards making full games.

But if those tech demos are exploring programming techniques or special effects that might end up in games, I think it is worth it  : )  I also support demos as programming practice as they encourage optimized code and exploring the capabilities of a system, all things which can be beneficial come game-time.

Final Fight is hard to do, at least properly.  I've looked into a bunch of this stuff, and even with 128 sprites it's hard to do right.  If you think of Crest of Wolf, with its 4 (large) (wait, or is it 3.5?) sprites on-screen, Final fight could possibly handle 8, scaled down FF sprites, but then no weapons.  You don't need 8 people on screen unless IIRC you're doing an arcade perfect conversion, you could do something like 5 and have some of the weapons.
...
tl;dr: Supergrafx and it's 128 sprites is very attractive, and 2 MB+ of sprite data isn't hard to use, but it's questionable whether it's enough for some things.

Well, I think the SGX could come up with something that could handily match or better what was done on the SNES or Genesis, at least, even if arcade perfection is still something of a pipe dream. I'd rather see an original brawler, however. I've always preferred the Streets of Rage series due to the characters having more moves and options in combat, and I think something along those lines would be a better testament to the SGX than a rehash of something that is certainly historically important but has been superceded in just about every way since.

[SignOfZeta]

I seriously hope that if someone goes through the massive ordeal of making a Arcade Card SGX game that it isn't Final f*cking Fight. That game is so overrated. Huge sprites, sure, but not much to do compared to...almost any other beat 'em up.

[Arkhan]

Tech demo coding often involves doing things that basically remove all possibility of making a game because you're blowing all your resources doing some goony screen effect.

I seriously hope that if someone goes through the massive ordeal of making a Arcade Card SGX game that it isn't Final f*cking Fight. That game is so overrated. Huge sprites, sure, but not much to do compared to...almost any other beat 'em up.

Damn straight.

[BigusSchmuck]

I seriously hope that if someone goes through the massive ordeal of making a Arcade Card SGX game that it isn't Final f*cking Fight. That game is so overrated. Huge sprites, sure, but not much to do compared to...almost any other beat 'em up.

Well of course if someone redid Mighty Final Fight I wouldn't be opposed to it...

[Tatsujin]

That game is so overrated. Huge sprites, sure, but not much to do compared to...almost any other beat 'em up.

I have to disagree. it not only showed huge sprites for that time, it also had supersmooth animations, great and fast playability, brilliant colors and graphics and a very unique style among that genre. the only thing that sucked was the BGM.
It literally put everything to big cow crap what came out prior to it.

sure I am talking arcade only.

I will aways see it as a milestone in the Beat 'n' walk genre, and will keep a special place in my nostaglia heart.
And nn arcade in '89 without a final fight was no arcade.

[SignOfZeta]

That game is so overrated. Huge sprites, sure, but not much to do compared to...almost any other beat 'em up.

I have to disagree. it not only showed huge sprites for that time, it also had supersmooth animations, great and fast playability, brilliant colors and graphics and a very unique style among that genre. the only thing that sucked was the BGM.
It literally put everything to big cow crap what came out prior to it.

sure I am talking arcade only.

I will aways see it as a milestone in the Beat 'n' walk genre, and will keep a special place in my nostaglia heart.
And nn arcade in '89 without a final fight was no arcade.

Streets of Rage, the Kunio Series, Double Dragon, Golden Axe, etc etc. All of these games have superior gameplay. Capcom forgot to add moves and shit!

[Tatsujin]

The first Golden Axe does not have more moves and shit, by far not/ it only had the beasts to ride and the magics which made it so fun to play. moves were almost straight forward and not much to add. kuni series and DD plays like shit compared, and also those have not more moves, those just play much more tredious. Sor came out far later (and also only improved a lot with part II).

FF had that great shoulder throw technics (too nicely keep all your enemies on one side).
You had "real rapid"-punch, air kick, bruce lee cat kick, air kick to elbow etc. drop, shoulder throw, pile driver, grab and knee-strike, jump off the wall to kick, punch-grab-knee-strike to shoulder throw/pile driver combo, tons of itmes to mess around, etc. plus each players special move (energy absorbing).
so FF had a lot of moves for its time. don't tell me bullshit.

and also a perfect 2P mode.

[SignOfZeta]

Final Fight doesn't let you sit on a dude and beat on his head. It doesn't let you throw a guy and then have P2 catch him in mid air. Can you hold a dude from behind while P2 beats on him? I can't remember.

Final Fight doesn't even have running. It's pathetic!

Even the Kunio sports games are better beat 'me ups than Final Fight.

[Tatsujin]

It just had other things, but it hadn't less things :idea: and what it had was great :!:

And you're describing also things above which weren't invented before 1992/1993.

[soop]

Completely agree with Tats, completely disagree with Zeta.  Final Fight was streets ahead of everything else out there.  I love the music too.

Everything that it wasn't, it made possible.  In fact, I think if you're comparing contemporaries, I think the best you're gonna get is Double Dragon.

@spenoza, I think the main limitations with the PC Engine hardware (for this type of thing) is the minimum 16x16 sprite blocks, which uses unnecessary resource for things like knives (or with Sunset Riders, bullets). 

Although, in fact checking I've just found a Bonknuts post: http://forums.magicengine.com/en/viewtopic.php?p=13823&sid=851ae015247bd87b9219eeccbf16e2bc in which he says that the max MD sprites on screen is 80.  I thought it was 96.

And considering the ...  How the hell does Final Fight CD work.  It's still using the Megadrives VDU right?

Just from that thread it makes it seem like a really good version of Final Fight or Sunset Riders would be possible...

[SignOfZeta]

It just had other things, but it hadn't less things :idea: and what it had was great :!:

And you're describing also things above which weren't invented before 1992/1993.

I'm describing things that were in 80s Famicom games or arcade games from Technos. You could do that stuff in Double Dragon or Kunio.

[Tatsujin]

It just had other things, but it hadn't less things :idea: and what it had was great :!:

And you're describing also things above which weren't invented before 1992/1993.

I'm describing things that were in 80s Famicom games or arcade games from Technos. You could do that stuff in Double Dragon or Kunio.

So there it be. In exchange you couldn't do other things in your mentioned "favorites" that could be done in Final Fight, plus it looked and played like 10x the better than anything prior to it.

The hell anyway. Regarding your stupid logic and arguments an R-Type f.e. must be a bad game too, since it basically just does the same stuff as already seen in Gradius, just in a different way.

So f*ck every even so great game released after Double Dragon and Gradius. Because they just plain suck.

[esteban]

Zeta is not the biggest fan of Final Fight, which we can all agree is monotonous and tedious (a hallmark of the beat-em-up genre! Ha!), but I know he enjoyed RENEGADE on NES—I loved that damn game. A beat-em-up without subway stages is a farce.

Anyway, I love how passionate Tats is about Final Fight.

But Zeta had the best line when he said:

Even the Kunio sports games are better beat 'me ups than Final Fight.

That is precious!

ALSO: Hahahahaha. Kunio Soccer.