Summer time homebrew

[Bonknuts]

The people who use Kickstarter for indie games are reaching out to a wider audience, asking for money for a project they'd not really be able to do otherwise because of dev/platform licenses, required toolkits, time, and art.   They're doing it with both profit and long-term jobs in mind.  Get enough to fund it, produce it, and then hope sales happen afterwards...

The PCE is free to develop for, and it's assumed you probably already have testing hardware.  Mednafen is free and works fine in place of real hardware for almost all testing.

and, again, you're targeting PCE, where its been proven at least twice now, that if you ask for pre-orders, you'll get your funding easily, and quickly.  Just make sure you have proof that the project is actually ready to go.

Not to mention, there is not a large PCE fanbase.  Once you do your initial sales wave, that's basically it aside from sporadic purchases every month or so.

You're more or less just asking the PCE community to toss larger sums of money at you than would normally be expected of a homebrew, simply to keep you fed/alive while you lock yourself in for a whole summer, hopefully finishing a game.  

You would have to generate A LOT of money from a small fanbase in order to keep yourself sustained during this marathon and still have money to produce the game and whatever bonus loot you come up with.   Creating that stuff isn't free either.

Not to mention, if you want to attract an outside crowd, you don't really have any previous games to demonstrate.  The majority of outside gamers will be skeptical about handing money out to someone who only has tech demos to show off.  The PCE crowd gets these things, but the other crowds may not.

Sure you could have a prototype of the current game, but without at least one finished game under your belt, I can see the non PCE loyalists being skeptical about completion.

This is especially because of all of the homebrew speedbumps that occur in all the scenes.  People are skeptics.  It happens.

I'm sorry duder, I don't see the point.  We've got a steady stream of PCE happenings as of late that are continuing to go on.  I myself am comfortable waiting for you to do whatever you are planning at a leisurely pace.  

I honestly say, if you want to make a PCE game, just make a PCE game, at your leisure.  I'd say its safe to assume everyone here, including myself will encourage you to create your game either way.  

I mean, Insanity was made during both college + work in under a year in spare time, and that included learning the hardware, figuring out the whole chiptune thing, and all of that.  Why rush things?

 Everything you said is true. And I agree with it. I just.. want to find a way to make this happen on the terms I've out lined - lol. I definitely know of the skepticism of the retrogaming community towards anything homebrew getting to completion, which is why one of the reasons I wanted to present this in a more professional.. indie game type of light. I also figured branching out to one more platform would help bring in more funding. I understand the norm for retrogaming community is that you develop the product first and then ask for funding (basically preordering) for the final costs (usually physical production). I think the PC platform would be a good alternate platform choice. It still leaves the game dedicated to the PCE/TG16 (instead of multiconsole), giving it that still PCE exclusive-ness (kinda). I mean, it will be the initial platform release, designed specifically around the PCE. It'll be a PCE game through and through. And even being on CD platform, I want chiptunes (though I might give the options for both chiptune or CDDA, if time serves). I want that nostalgic retro game feel. I think that would lend well to the PC gamers that like that retro style as well. So yeah, I'm hoping (rather, betting) on another platform such as the PC to bring in a wider audience for funding. I thought about other platforms (XNA or whatever, and 'driod), but they just don't seem like a good choice. I want to focus on what's most important first.

 I don't want to come off that I'm rushing things. Sorry, if it seems that way. To me, this isn't rushing anything. Not really. It's no different that if you take 2000 hours and divide it up over a year, or over 4 months. I just don't want this to take forever and a minute. This doesn't have anything to do with school or real life per se (I'll be starting first year community college; I've done that before. It's not so bad). In my opinion, I work much better when time allotted is consolidated into a single chunk/layout. And I think this holds true for almost anyone. People lose steam, motivation, interest, and more chances for real life crap to get in the way, the longer you allow the project to go on. I think it's the number one reason why such any hobbyist projects fail (games or otherwise). I know first hand how many projects died because there wasn't enough time to throw at it and people lose interest or other things come along and distract you (and no, you don't have to be ADD for this to happen - lol), etc. Both in coding projects and other stuff (film/movie production related).

 Anyway, I have a pretty good outline of the game and story already. I'm working on putting together a presentation and a site for it. I'm not the greatest of animation/cartoon style artist (although I'm decent at adapting such to pixel art), so I have a few comic book artist friends I need to get with (people need visuals). That a side, in case anyone is wondering or such, the game is going to be Megaman meets metriodvania. The gameplay controls are going to be very Megaman-ish (shooting, jumping, dodging ala Megaman style), and the level design is going to be metriod/castlevania-ish; back tracking, map system, exploration, hidden area, side missions, etc. The plot device for the characters motivation will be Megaman Legends-ish, rather than 'saving' the day old school Megaman. Though there will be overlying plots complexities and such. There will also be a team, although the main character is the only controllable character. It's gonna be a little more mature and not so MM kiddy-ish (think something closer to Cowboy Bebop. Actually that's a pretty good/accurate description; Cowboy Bebop meets Megaman mash up).

 All this might be one big fail and you might be completely right (and I'll eat crow), but I've gotta try - else I'm gonna end up completely regretting not at least trying to pull this off. Better to try and fail than to never try at all, or some shite like that - I'm sure.  

[Arkhan]

If you're going to keep it PCE exclusive, I vote you just go with the approach everyone else is doing instead of trying to force yourself to crank out a fairly ambitious title in such a small amount of time.    You'd end up setting everyone (including yourself) up for disappointment instead of chugging along at your leisure and enjoying it.

I say branch out and worry and kickstarting and huge outreaching after the PCE one is finished and you have something to show off for it.

right now, even if you branch out, you don't have anything to show off.  By the time you get mockups together, and people get everything else together, the clock will already be ticking and the deadline will be rapidly approaching.

and without copious amounts of moneys falling on the rest of your teams laps, I doubt anyone will want to blow their freetime during the summer making music/coloring pictures/doing animation stuff for a project with a rapidly approaching deadline that might not even be met, lol.

It sounds like a sweet game idea though, so I still think you should do the game, just with a saner timeline approach so you enjoy the process. 

[ParanoiaDragon]

You mentioned SGX & ACD.  Are you saying these would be required, or are you talking bi-compatible, where when placed in an SGX with an ACD, you get enhancements?  If it's exclusively SGX & ACD, that will ofcoarse drastically limit the number of Turbob's that would be able to play it, which maybe effect sales, though, if anyone's like me, I'd buy it anyways to support the Turbo scene in general.

Doing this on a professional level I deffinitely say requires hard deadlines, or vice versa, they go hand in hand.  When we're doing games in our spare time, it's waaaay too easy for RL to step in & slow or stop everything.  Obviously RL can still step in when doing it as a full time job, but I'd say much less likely, since you don't have the usual 10hr a day etc. job eating up the time besides the coding.

Speaking of which, have you done some really long coding sessions?  I know for me, I personally don't think I could handle doing music for a game exclusively.  I sometimes get stuck on a tune, & have to litterally stop & not work on it for a day, or 2, or 3, or etc.  Then BAM, I can have a great idea that drives me forward.  Something like that would get in the way of a deadline, though, since I've never done music on a daily work schedule, I can't say for 100% certainty that I couldn't.  If you're uncertain, maybe there's a way you can do some test runs of 10 hrs of coding, though, I'd make it count.  Build something either for your game, or some sort of mini game(an old arcade or atari game?), or something that the dev community in general, & make sure what you're coding is interesting to you in general.

As for the deadline itself, I say get all your ideas together now, before a deadline is set.  You mentioned how people can lose steam, & I can say from my own experience that that's VERY true.  I personally keep going with my projects, but I do find that when I see more work from the others in our various projects, it does give me a boost, & I assume when I show off a song, or even a partial song, or even a neat idea, that it can atleast give the others a goose of sorts!

I feel like there was another thought or 2 I wanted to convey, but it's slipped my mind, so far now, this is all I can think of, other then GO GO GO Tom/Mal/Bonknuts/etc.  Whether you choose to do it in 3 months, or not, I look foward to it!

[esteban]

STATUS: Comrade, good to see you posting here.

I'm not going to post long screeds on the best method for fundraising/raising awareness...but I will tell you this: once you decide how you are going to proceed, I will support it.

[roflmao]

Secondeded.

[TailChao]

This sounds like a really lovely thing, and if it is what you want to do with those three months, go for it. Kickstarter or not.

Some points / suggestions:
*If you can, try and get all of your tools and mechanics done before this summer. Spending three months just on content (stage objects, level design, etc) would be fantastic. Getting the mechanics done ahead of time, I think- is especially important, since then you'll have a better understanding of how the player will interact with the world around them rather than just simple outlines like "jump, run, shoot." You'll then be free to cleverly use/abuse this. It also gives you more playtesting time.

*HuCards are only going to be expensive if you want a plastic mold, this can run you $5K easy. The cost of manufacturing is obviously higher than CDs, but consider the theoretical sales of the game. If you are selling 600+ copies on HuCard at $50 each...
I don't mean this in a money-grubbing way, but just consider alternate formats if it makes development easier. Since these things are quite feasible.

*Don't worry about PC ports or any other editions of the game, just make one version- the good version. For a downloadable edition on PC or such, maybe you could collaborate with some emulator authors and split the sales profits on that platform? In any case your focus should just be on the game's design and development.

Best of luck with all this.

[Arkhan]

*HuCards are only going to be expensive if you want a plastic mold, this can run you $5K easy. The cost of manufacturing is obviously higher than CDs, but consider the theoretical sales of the game. If you are selling 600+ copies on HuCard at $50 each...
I don't mean this in a money-grubbing way, but just consider alternate formats if it makes development easier. Since these things are quite feasible.

I was under the impression he was planning a CD game release, not a HuCard one.

[TailChao]

I was under the impression he was planning a CD game release, not a HuCard one.

This was moreso in response to the post on his blog, stating that a HuCard may be too ambitious.

[Arkhan]

I was under the impression he was planning a CD game release, not a HuCard one.

This was moreso in response to the post on his blog, stating that a HuCard may be too ambitious.

Ah. 

Yeah.  A HuCard is a bit too ambitious, I'd say.  It adds a whole new level of complexity to the project, and effectively destroys the chance of it being completeable in a marathon of a few months.



Also, another thing with the Kickstarter route is, if you say your deadline is in just a few months, people are going to look at you like you are high on all kinds of things.

[esadajr]

Count me in! Go for the challenge!

I think having access to things like private progress reports and early betas should be more than enough incentive for supporters.

No need for fancy shmancy limited editions. But, if you go that route, you could include maybe a "don't ebay" logo and some kind of disclaimer.

[Arkhan]

I think having access to things like private progress reports and early betas should be more than enough incentive for supporters.

That's not very different than what everyone here already gets for free from everyone making games, though.

[sunteam_paul]

I don't want to come off that I'm rushing things. Sorry, if it seems that way. To me, this isn't rushing anything. Not really. It's no different that if you take 2000 hours and divide it up over a year, or over 4 months. I just don't want this to take forever and a minute. This doesn't have anything to do with school or real life per se (I'll be starting first year community college; I've done that before. It's not so bad). In my opinion, I work much better when time allotted is consolidated into a single chunk/layout. And I think this holds true for almost anyone. People lose steam, motivation, interest, and more chances for real life crap to get in the way, the longer you allow the project to go on. I think it's the number one reason why such any hobbyist projects fail (games or otherwise). I know first hand how many projects died because there wasn't enough time to throw at it and people lose interest or other things come along and distract you (and no, you don't have to be ADD for this to happen - lol), etc. Both in coding projects and other stuff (film/movie production related).

Sometimes time IS a good thing, especially when you're dealing with something creative. You can avoid burn-out and develop better ideas - gameplay, visuals, level design, music etc. How many professionally released games suck because of a refusal to release 'when it's ready'? Homebrew has an advantage in not having enforced deadlines. I'm pretty sure people lose interest in projects not because of the time, but due to stalling, team members vanishing for ages, lack of updates for the team to see etc. I'd rather you set a good, steady pace than feel you have to finish by day X. We'll all get a much better end result because of it.

[spenoza]

I don't see any problem with doing a Kickstarter, as long as the funding goal meets your needs for summer survival. If you don't reach that funding level, the Kickstarter won't succeed. Note that Kickstarter has been getting firmer on needing to see some documentation and work up front so that they don't have people trying to fund total phantoms.

[vestcoat]

I'll support whatever funding vehicle and timeframe you choose.

Yeah, the Summer deadline is ambitious and Arkahn's points should not be taken lightly, but you don't have much to lose besides time. Worst-case scenario: funding falls through, you waste half your summer, eat potatoes and oatmeal on foodstamps for two months, there's an internet scandal, and the game is released three years late. That doesn't sound much worse than the ongoing Mysterious Song drama.

I don't have any qualms with the profit aspect. I can't design games and I'm happy to pay other people for it (although I can't contribute more than a $100 these days). Neither am I worried about resellers. Meteor Blaster had a limited edition and it's been listed on ebay... what, TWICE? One guy got $250, a more recent seller didn't get much.

Give it a shot. Make a clear timeline for your fundraising goals and see where it goes. Prepare an exit strategy if it's not working. Set deadlines, but make sure they're under your control: you can finish the game, but you can't control the idiots at the replicating plant. With such a short timeline, make your goals attainable. Better to perfect the game engine and release a short game with three stages than miss your deadline or rush out a buggy game with eight stages. You can always make a sequel or release a "complete" version later.

Good luck. This sounds exciting.

[Arkhan]

If it's going to be PCE exclusive, the Kickstarter will be asking a lot of everyone here.  I can't imagine outside crowds really diving aboard.   If they really gave a shit about the PCE, they would already be here posting.

I can't say I myself would be enthusiastic about giving out extra money for a self imposed deadline so that living expenses can be covered when there is no guarantee that the project will in fact see completion by said deadline.  

There would be a large expectation from all of us. If there's fancy rewards for giving more money, what that really does is cancel out the extra money.... because you have to spend money to produce those rewards, so you won't really be able to spend it on living expenses.

That's why it should be done for fun at your leisure instead...

and what Spenoza said:  "Better to release a short game with three stages."

That would be a bit disappointing if the end product is a very short game, because the timeline and deadline were so cramped.   People will have invested in what is essentially just a demo for a bigger game.  That doesn't seem too good.