Author Topic: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison  (Read 10274 times)

Bonknuts

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #105 on: May 31, 2013, 08:41:44 AM »
 I noticed that my original version used ZP for the 8:8 scaler. Speeds it up, but I'd rather use ZP for something better suited elsewhere. This version uses full addressing+indexing. To make up for the added cycle, I optimized the high byte of the whole number. Worst case scenario, it's the same cycle count as before (98 cycles). Best cast scenario, it's 88 cycles.
Code: [Select]
  ;6280 object

2   ldx #$xx              ;2
3   jsr AddVelocity       ;7        

AddVelocity:    
3   lda x_float,x         ;5
1   clc                   ;2
3   adc x_float_inc,x     ;5
3   sta x_float,x         ;5
3   lda x_whole.l,x       ;5
3   adc x_whole_inc,x     ;5
3   sta x_whole.l,x       ;5
    bcc .skip1            ;4/2
    inc x_whole.h,x       ; /7 = 36/41
.skip1    
    
3   lda y_float,x         ;5
3   adc y_float_inc,x     ;5
3   sta y_float,x         ;5
3   lda y_whole.l,x       ;5
3   adc y_whole_inc,x     ;5
3   sta y_whole.l,x       ;5
    bcc .skip2            ;4/2
    inc y_whole.h,x       ; /7 = 36/41
.skip2    
    
1   rts                   ;7

PS: I think the troll will go away if we stop feeding him.

Necromancer

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #106 on: May 31, 2013, 08:45:35 AM »
Truth be told you all put a MD face on this but I coulda brought up the Sega CD or Neo Geo.  The thread only asks about two specific chips and everyone assumed PCE Vs MD.

It's not an assumption, cuntdrip; the topic quite clearly says MD68K and HU6280, making it specific to the MD (Mega Drive) and PCE (PC Engine) CPUs.
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soop

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #107 on: May 31, 2013, 09:04:36 AM »
         

PS: I think the troll will go away if we stop feeding him.

Agreed.  He doesn't seem like a bad guy, but he's dragging the whole thread down, I'm considering putting him on ignore.

Maybe another more suitable thread in the correct subforum would be more appropriate for that very old discussion

EvilEvoIX

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #108 on: May 31, 2013, 09:19:38 AM »
Truth be told you all put a MD face on this but I coulda brought up the Sega CD or Neo Geo.  The thread only asks about two specific chips and everyone assumed PCE Vs MD.

It's not an assumption, cuntdrip; the topic quite clearly says MD68K and HU6280, making it specific to the MD (Mega Drive) and PCE (PC Engine) CPUs.


Cunt Drip, I like that, really shows how angry you are.  People pick and choose whatever they want in this thread but I tired to keep things off the personal level.  You on the other hand took it personal, why?  Why so angry the hu6280 is slower than the MD68K or any contemporary release in several following consoles?  You can call me a cunt drip again but I think people are tired of watching people bash me and avoid the truth.


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I already dropped him a message on there and he did not reply back, so f*ck him, and his cunt wife.

Bonknuts

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #109 on: May 31, 2013, 09:35:51 AM »
Truth be told you all put a MD face on this but I coulda brought up the Sega CD or Neo Geo.  The thread only asks about two specific chips and everyone assumed PCE Vs MD.

It's not an assumption, cuntdrip; the topic quite clearly says MD68K and HU6280, making it specific to the MD (Mega Drive) and PCE (PC Engine) CPUs.


Cunt Drip, I like that, really shows how angry you are.  People pick and choose whatever they want in this thread but I tired to keep things off the personal level.  You on the other hand took it personal, why?  Why so angry the hu6280 is slower than the MD68K or any contemporary release in several following consoles?  You can call me a cunt drip again but I think people are tired of watching people bash me and avoid the truth.

 I think the whole problem would be solved, if you just left this thread alone. You're not programmer, you have nothing to contribute here, and yes - you have personally insulted people (I pretty sure that quip about old man and his wife was considered a direct insult). You're a gamer, fine. Go the gaming parts of this forum and talking about gaming. Leave this thread alone. You ARE trolling here. Do you not see this? You said your piece and your opinion (even though it have nothing to do with the discussion, nor did it contribute to it in any way possible. Quite the opposite. You are just bringing down this thread), fine. You have nothing left to say or contribute. Leave.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 09:37:38 AM by Bonknuts »

EvilEvoIX

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #110 on: May 31, 2013, 09:50:43 AM »
Truth be told you all put a MD face on this but I coulda brought up the Sega CD or Neo Geo.  The thread only asks about two specific chips and everyone assumed PCE Vs MD.

It's not an assumption, cuntdrip; the topic quite clearly says MD68K and HU6280, making it specific to the MD (Mega Drive) and PCE (PC Engine) CPUs.


Cunt Drip, I like that, really shows how angry you are.  People pick and choose whatever they want in this thread but I tired to keep things off the personal level.  You on the other hand took it personal, why?  Why so angry the hu6280 is slower than the MD68K or any contemporary release in several following consoles?  You can call me a cunt drip again but I think people are tired of watching people bash me and avoid the truth.

 I think the whole problem would be solved, if you just left this thread alone. You're not programmer, you have nothing to contribute here, and yes - you have personally insulted people (I pretty sure that quip about old man and his wife was considered a direct insult). You're a gamer, fine. Go the gaming parts of this forum and talking about gaming. Leave this thread alone. You ARE trolling here. Do you not see this? You said your piece and your opinion (even though it have nothing to do with the discussion, nor did it contribute to it in any way possible. Quite the opposite. You are just bringing down this thread), fine. You have nothing left to say or contribute. Leave.

Sorry to hear your feelings are hurt, I guess just F those Amiga guys then huh.  I am sorry you are a hater and hate Amiga users and just bias over the 68K Propogandy started by Joseph Goebbels himself.  I'm sorry you are butt hurt and took things personally.  I am sorry that you haven't admitted that the MD68K is faster than the HU6280 or as you put it "almost as fast."

Keep trying...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 09:52:22 AM by EvilEvoIX »


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I already dropped him a message on there and he did not reply back, so f*ck him, and his cunt wife.

spenoza

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #111 on: May 31, 2013, 09:54:02 AM »
Can we not use the word "cunt" when insulting each other, here? It is one of those highly charged words which the insulter may think is merely just another word, but which for many has some very negative connotations. Call him a pig f*cker or something, that's fine, but I would be very happy if "cunt" dropped out of the insult vernacular. It's almost up there with "nigger" in being offensive to many readers/listeners, and not just the insultee.

Please?
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Necromancer

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #112 on: May 31, 2013, 10:01:19 AM »
Cunt Drip, I like that, really shows how angry you are.  People pick and choose whatever they want in this thread but I tired to keep things off the personal level.  You on the other hand took it personal, why?  Why so angry the hu6280 is slower than the MD68K or any contemporary release in several following consoles?  

I'm not angry - I just enjoy being vulgar for teh lulz.

You can call me a cunt drip again but I think people are tired of watching people bash me and avoid the truth.

You're the one avoiding the truth.  Go back and re-read all the posts where specific examples were given to show operations that take more cycles (slower) on the MD; the coding guys have given you ample proof and explanation of how/why the two cpus are similarly speedy.

But we both know you won't bother and will continue to ignore every intelligent argument and example given.  Keep your head in the sand!



And with that I'll take Tom's advice and ignore this troll.  He's clearly not interested in actually learning anything.

But I am!  From past discussions, didn't y'all say that 68k code ends up being bigger?  It's not such a big deal nowadays, but it was back in the day when they had to pay for more ROM to get the same job done (eating into profits).
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nodtveidt

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #113 on: May 31, 2013, 10:39:22 AM »
Why so angry the hu6280 is slower than the MD68K or any contemporary release in several following consoles?
It's not, fanboi dumbass. Are you even paying attention, or are you just rubbing your nuts with your Megadrive controller?

Bonknuts

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #114 on: May 31, 2013, 10:44:01 AM »
But I am!  From past discussions, didn't y'all say that 68k code ends up being bigger?  It's not such a big deal nowadays, but it was back in the day when they had to pay for more ROM to get the same job done (eating into profits).

 Ya know, that was the original assumption. Because the 68k instructions are fairly long byte wise, but in the discussion with Steve Snake and the others - turns out that the code generation is generally smaller. Sometime by half, but sometimes as much as 3/4 the size (this in bytes, not instructions). But code takes up the least amount of space in a game. Actually, very little compared to data, maps, tiles, sprites, tables, music, etc - all combined. For hucards, from what I looked at, code size is usually around 64k (Bonk 1 is 384k). Some are less but usually not much larger than 64k. Of course, if you think about the CDrom 2.0 - it only had 64k of 'cart' space. Code was smaller and while I haven't looked at CD 2.0 games, I'd be willing to bet it's closer to 32k for code. The rest of 32k for tilemap and such data. And most of the tiles and sprites are preloaded in vram already (some games used ADPCM ram to store additional stuff like text scripts or even graphics. The first Spriggan game used it for graphics).

Quote
And with that I'll take Tom's advice and ignore this troll.  He's clearly not interested in actually learning anything.
I just now put him on ignore. At least for now. I'm sure there's a gamer inside there, somewhere, if he'd just stop acting like an ass.


Why so angry the hu6280 is slower than the MD68K or any contemporary release in several following consoles?
It's not, fanboi dumbass. Are you even paying attention, or are you just rubbing your nuts with your Megadrive controller?
LOL!

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #115 on: May 31, 2013, 11:07:04 AM »
Evil, just get out of this f*cking thread already. You have no business in it until you at least have half an idea what you are talking about. Your on a direct path towards ostracizing yourself from this forum by nothing other then being totally ignorant, highly annoying, and thread crapping what was otherwise a great thread. Your approach to the subject is poorly put together and just keeps reading off as "The 68000 is better cause I know it is". Half of your argument and examples are terrible and most of the time are ones that actually rely on the Yamaha YM7101 and not just solely the M68000, like you have the inability to separate the two and the functions they actually handle and how they work together. Most effects you see done on the Genesis/Mega Drive have to do with the VDP in general as it is what is displaying them, not the cpu, though the cpu does assist in pacing/guiding the VDP to its glory. Its not that hard to understand, yet you seem totally incapable of distinguish between the two and totally unable to recognize or admit to a lot of the flaws of the Genesis (like your continuing to ignore the whole arcade ports being better on the PCE thing or how the Genesis suffered massive amounts of slowdown and flicker at times, or the terrible sound quality on many games).

This applies to basically all the classic game systems, and why they varied so much visually and audio wise concerning weakness and strength, especially concerning arcade game boards, and why you would see so much hardware having so many different abilities. Being a hardware enthusiast that I am, and seeing the Hu6280 used in such a wide degree of arcade boards, let alone in Nec's hardware, and to the same degree the 68000, I have seen them used enough, based on a wide spectrum of hands on experience with the games that actually used both to know both of them are fairly capable cpus both with strengths and weaknesses, and also that the one used in the Genesis is on the lower end of the line of Motorola 68000 processors clocked a lot lower then it should have been (lots of slow down on Genesis games anyone?). I also don't base my experience on emulators which can mask flaws that are very apparent when running on actual hardware, or a few instances of razzle dazzle that don't actually enhance gameplay.

I really wish you understood all of this, but you seem to really struggle with all of these facts as they are and it sounds like you did this to yourself on the Sega forum also. You seem to associate the power of the Genesis solely to the M68000, ignoring the fact that most of its visual power comes from its rather interesting but highly flawed YM7101, and you totally ignore things like the fact that most all the arcade ports were better on PCE. Basically it amounts to you giving far too much credit to the cpu instead of looking at the over all hardware capabilities. Your logic and choice to ignore facts, evidence, and examples from opposing parties make it impossible to see where you are coming from or to even empathize with you and your stance, and it just makes you come off as annoying and trolling. You're basically now that guy with his fingers in his ears saying "la la la".



Once you become that kind of guy it is almost impossible to save face amongst fellow forum members. People are always going to think of you as the obnoxious local fool who wont go away.


edit: saw the dismay at the use of "cunt". I always rather enjoy seeing the word being used.  :wink:
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 12:43:05 PM by ProfessorProfessorson »

vestcoat

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #116 on: May 31, 2013, 11:49:42 AM »
Evil: flaming can be fun, but insulting the guys who make games for the TurboGrafx is f*cking stupid.
1) you don't know what you're talking about.
2) they're way smarter than you.
3) you're going to want to buy something from them sooner or later.

As for Professorson, he doesn't make games, but he's technically astute and he'll tear you apart like a pitbull.
STATUS: Try not to barf in your mouth.

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #117 on: May 31, 2013, 12:48:53 PM »
Evil: flaming can be fun, but insulting the guys who make games for the TurboGrafx is f*cking stupid.
1) you don't know what you're talking about.
2) they're way smarter than you.
3) you're going to want to buy something from them sooner or later.

As for Professorson, he doesn't make games, but he's technically astute and he'll tear you apart like a pitbull.

Even when I'm on a off day and tired lol. I prob coulda typed up something better but meh... But yeah, don't even take my word for it, the fact that EvilEvoIX is ignoring actual programers etc whole speaks volumes of stupid.

EvilEvoIX

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #118 on: May 31, 2013, 04:13:26 PM »
Hi all, i have this in mind for a while ..

How 6280 can compete with Md 68k in performance ???
Of course in case of video game consoles, not in general use(like a computer) .

It seems that in bloc transfert ,the 68k is more capable (with more code of course) ..


You are correct for the most part.  The MD68K was and is extremely capable to program for.  It's a true 16bit CPU and could handle a greater work load when going toe to toe with the PCE.  Is it an absolute smashing victory, no they were close but be careful if you share the knowledge of the MD68k superiority.  They'll come with fire and pitch forks for you and god forbid you make a valid point because you'll be buried with excuses.  Some programmers say the PCE CPU is superior while others argue in favor of the MD68k.  For the most part they are biased and blame Amiga users for spreading 68K propaganda.  A lot of thoretical debates are going on therorizing what is possible snd what is not.  these old systems really pushed the envrlope and had some expert blabing about their condoles siperiority.  He'll the SNES dprite limit is higher than the MD but we all know that it would just slow to a crawl.  Just be careful and just play the games and enjoy them.  Just keep the truth to yourself otherwise the pile on begins.  You'd be surprised how different this argument goes on the SNES or the SEGA forums.


[/thread]
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 04:44:58 PM by EvilEvoIX »


Quote from: ProfessorProfessorson
I already dropped him a message on there and he did not reply back, so f*ck him, and his cunt wife.

nodtveidt

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Re: Md 68k and hu6280 comparison
« Reply #119 on: May 31, 2013, 05:36:43 PM »
...are you done spewing stupid?