Md 68k and hu6280 comparison

[EvilEvoIX]

no one has thwarted my attempt in stating that the MD68K is indeed faster than the HU6280.  The MD68K was  better CPU of the two , a 32/16bit (hybrid) 68000 CPU running at 7.67mhz.

I do believe it's been stated MULTIPLE times that the MD68K is NOT faster OR better than the Hu6280. It is simply different. It is better for some things, and worse for others... faster for some things, slower for others. Of course, this reality won't ever penetrate that concrete shell you call a skull.

We all know the Mega Drive itself had superior sound hardware so I’m not going to bash what I already know is true.

A low-grade Yamaha FM chip is "superior sound hardware"? Dream on, fanboy. Again, it's simply different. It is in no way superior. It also has nothing to do with the CPU.

The MD68K can handle more detailed sprites on screen and larger at that.  It’s just what the hardware did.

This is a complete lie. You clearly know absolutely nothing about the sprite capabilities of the two machines. Furthermore, this also has nothing to do with the CPU.

The MD68k moves more sprites and larger sprites faster.  So yeah it is indeed different.  Bashing the MD's sound capabilities is a tough one in comparison to the PCE.  Obvious people may prefer the one or the other stylistically but listening to say streets of rage or vectorman the music is just much clearer and real instruments distinguishable.  So there is no need to get upset just listen to the chip tunes, if you think there is something that rivals the MD lemy hear it.  Org wise I just chill with the cd music.  The sound fx are kinda poor for the late 80's early to mid 90's.  I mean you have to hear it.

[EvilEvoIX]

Some of you are real full of your selves, barking that you are “programmers” and what you say goes.  

www.aetherbyte.com  <<< Note the games released on multiple platforms.  

What I am going to attempt to do, and I ask for the fan bois to pull off their rose colored glasses, is compare the MD68K to the HU6280.

That's what we've been doing this entire time.  You just don't understand what we're talking about.

So I am not going to make gifs or pictures that DISTRACT from the truth, no one has thwarted my attempt in stating that the MD68K is indeed faster than the HU6280.  The MD68K was  better CPU of the two , a 32/16bit (hybrid) 68000 CPU running at 7.67mhz.  I guess if you are doing “8-Bit” things the HU6280 does things better and the evidence in the West at least shows a lot of “8-Bit” looking games running at AMAZING speeds.

Just recently, before I corrected you, you were saying it was 16-bit.  Now you say it's a hybrid.  That's cute.

You don't seem to understand what is meant by 8 vs 16 bit operations.   It has nothing to do with anything you see visually.  

Someone else pointed this out, elsewhere:
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9338   This game uses a 68000.  Games like Contra use 8-bit CPUs.   Note how shitty Road Runner looks in comparison.

   It’s not fair to compare Western releases to the PCE releases in Japan, one look at Sapphire and you’d see it’s on par if not exceeds the MD68K in all its glory.

Comparing only a subset of a library is stupid.  It'd be like only looking at US released Sega CD games.  Yknow, all those really shitty FMV games that everyone laughs at like Double Switch and Ground Zero Texas or whatever.

Take those away and you're left with like 10 good US games:

Silpheed
Lunar 1 and 2
Vay
Shining Force CD
Popful Mail
Rise of the Dragon
Ecco
Flashback
Sol Feace
Android Assault

and some of those have cartridge counterparts that are basically the same thing.

That's why it's best to compare the library of games from the country of origin so you get the full effect, instead of whatever was localized, and whatever was probably done poorly.

Why are talking about sega cd?  It has a faster processor than the MD68k and then additional scaling and rotation.  What's cute is how personally people are taking this.  I know the MD68k can handle multiple addresses such as 16 bit and 32bit.  The PCE does 8-bit things better.  not doing Alien Soldier, sorry.  Its all over the net and in publications you had no monopoly on duch information do quit acting like you just pulled the curtain back.  I also know it does so better than the PCE.  More sprites, more detail, faster.  It's there in black and white and with all the bitching I am getting everyone seems to dance around that statement.  

Yes yes yes the Sega CD had a lot if dog turds and already stated that the PCE CD has better game.  I have a bunch of them and am hammering away at them as we speak.  FMV shit but I still enjoy Sewer Shark and even limp through monkey island for the music.  Now back to Red Alert.....

[nodtveidt]

The MD68k moves more sprites and larger sprites faster.

No it DOESN'T you bleedin' idiot. The MD hardware's maximum sprite size is 32x32. The PCE's maximum sprite size is 32x64. MD can do 80 units (so technically more sprite blocks), PCE can do 64 units (at 32x64, this actually equates to 128 MD sprites, so technically more sprite pixels).

[VenomMacbeth]

Dude...just...stahp.  Please.  Make a thread for your grossly overzealous Sega-wank bullshit if you absolutely must, but I guarantee you nobody here wants to hear it, especially since half the shit you're spouting isn't even true. 

I love the Genesis, perhaps even more than the PCE, but you are telling lies.

[EvilEvoIX]

The MD68k moves more sprites and larger sprites faster.

No it DOESN'T you bleedin' idiot. The MD hardware's maximum sprite size is 32x32. The PCE's maximum sprite size is 32x64. MD can do 80 units (so technically more sprite blocks), PCE can do 64 units (at 32x64, this actually equates to 128 MD sprites, so technically more sprite pixels).

See this is what I'm talking about, semantics.  You just admitted the MD68k can handle more sprites and I've been shouting it from the rooftops yet you still call me an idiot.  Ummmm, so in the late 80's early 90's one could argue that most game consoles were 2d sprite based machines and I argued that since the MD68k could handle more sprites in screen at once in addition to multi scrolling backgrounds one could indeed conclude a distinct advantage however I wouldn't call it a complete advantage.  The MD was also more versatile in displaying sprites with any combination of 8-16-24-32 tall or wide.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Why does this guy keep confusing the VDP with the CPU? He starts bringing up sprite display capabilities, I mean, thats in the realm of the VDP, not the CPU to decide. Is his argument for the cpu anymore, or the VDP, or the entire thing? Does he even know? And why does he keep bringing up Cosmic Carnage Action Game Birdman Edition as an example of the 68000s power? The VDP is behind that mainly, not the 68000(note, the game also suffers from slowdown issues,etc even after having a massive sized basic black status bar).

The MD68k moves more sprites and larger sprites faster.

No it DOESN'T you bleedin' idiot. The MD hardware's maximum sprite size is 32x32. The PCE's maximum sprite size is 32x64. MD can do 80 units (so technically more sprite blocks), PCE can do 64 units (at 32x64, this actually equates to 128 MD sprites, so technically more sprite pixels).

See this is what I'm talking about, semantics.  You just admitted the MD68k can handle more sprites and I've been shouting it from the rooftops yet you still call me an idiot.  Ummmm, so in the late 80's early 90's one could argue that most game consoles were 2d sprite based machines and I argued that since the MD68k could handle more sprites in screen at once in addition to multi scrolling backgrounds one could indeed conclude a distinct advantage however I wouldn't call it a complete advantage.

You totally confused what he said there.  It is just a shining example of how little you actually know.

[Black Tiger]

My Lord!!!!! such anger (fanaticism?)  I mean….  Once you start hearing “Cunt Drip” and I believe someone dropped the N-Bomb, on PCE Forums people the N-BOMB!!!  Some of you have lost it.

Quotes from EvilEvoX in this same thread-

Reminds me of that fat chick on the view that prefaced everything with “I’m a lawyer”. 

Patented Fan Boi Argument 1

What I am going to attempt to do, and I ask for the fan bois to pull off their rose colored glasses, is compare the MD68K to the HU6280.

Butt-hurt?  Sorry you feel that way :/

Are we to judge the TG-16 based upon Bravo-Man or the pile of shit we westerners were given?  Everyone is quick to make excuses for that plague of shit and everyone looks passed that.  So I say we get to look passed piles of shit on the MD as well and there are bad PORTS but you mean to tell me a game like UMK3 would run as well, with as much animation and speed, and proper sound FX; dreaming.

Look at Sonic 2, the amount of shit going on in that game, the quality of sound FX and Music and then the speed, no f*cking way.

Look at f*cking Altered Beast?  Why is that shittyness ignored?  Apples to Apples MD Vs. PCE.  Great Animation intro thanks to CD Rom, great voice over, then 8-bit shittyness.

Oh and SHit Dick, I have all the games, and now all the systems and last I checked a CD Burner.  I've played the games, they are fun, stop it.  You guys get butt-hurt so easily and AGAIN I point out that hardware=shit when the software = shit.

Just because I didn’t sit there with my dick in my hand and a computer keyboard in the other doesn’t mean I don’t know what these systems can do.

What the f*ck was I thinking?

Fon Boi facts aside it is a better processor.

I'm sorry you are butt hurt and took things personally.

Listen guys, I can go to the MD sites and the Neo Sites and there are programmers just as bright eyed and furious as you are that shit over the HU6280 and support the MD68K with ans much vigor and propaganda as some of you.

Trouble is everyone I know or ever knew seems to agree with me, in fact this is the only site that seems to have trouble understanding what is obvious to anyone with a pair of ears and eyes.

On Sega-16, a Genesis/Mega Drive centric site, the programmers there said pretty much the same things that the programmers here are saying. You were ridiculed by everyone (not just programmers) much more on that site than here.

The amount of excuses being made and the amount of facts just obliterated are beyond even what I get on www.neo-geo.com and that is saying something.

So this is yet another forum where people actually don't agree with you?

I’m not going to do that and for the record have never shit on the PCE.

Except these examples in this same thread-

Music?  Not gona happen with those scratchy bleeps and bloops unless you go CD.

Great Animation intro thanks to CD Rom, great voice over, then 8-bit shittyness.

Look at f*cking Altered Beast?  Why is that shittyness ignored?  Apples to Apples MD Vs. PCE.  Great Animation intro thanks to CD Rom, great voice over, then 8-bit shittyness.  What excuse is there?  Why couldn't the game look as good as the MD?  Look how choppy and darty the animation is?  The music sounds like it's coming from a Halmark Music Card.  And now you tell me Earthworm Jim can come from this?

Here is a great example of true "fan boi" "rose colored glasses" and just inability to judge graphics in general. That CD intro? It's terrible and features zero "Animation". That "8-bit shittyness" looks much better than the Mega Drive version, with more detail, shading and better color. As for "choppy and darty the animation", again it is the exact opposite in reality and yet another way the PCE version is noticeably better. I'm guessing that you've never heard the sound running off of real hardware, but you've already established that you hate all PCE sound by default of being from the PCE, no matter how similar any particular game may sound to the Mega Drive version.


8-BIT SHITTYNESS <---------------------> NOT choppy and darty the animation













I think that this sums up best which version truly looks the closest to "8-bit"-

I have all three of them since day one, act one, scene one.  I have all the games now as well and years of experience.

You refused to comment on so many games during Sega-16 discussions, so I'll ask you again, if you've played all the games, even if only roms and isos, what did you think of Anearth Fantasy Stories, Gulliver Boy, Legend of Xanadu I & II, Ys IV and Cosmic Fantasy IV Chapters 1 & 2?

You really can’t compare the Sega CD to the Turbo CD as the Sega CD is so much more powerful as upgrades are SUPPOSED TO BE.

The Sega-CD is a hardware upgrade. It replaces the Genesis "MD68K" cpu with a more powerful one and adds new graphics capabilities (among other things). The PCE CD-ROM only allows the same old PCE cpu to run games the exact same way, while also controlling a CD drive, streaming CD music and using adpcm samples through an extra channel (many games don't use any of those additions much of the time). Although you are correct that it shouldn't be fair to compare the powerful Sega-CD hardware to a PCE CD-ROM setup... the PCE CD still has more impressive 2D games than the Sega-CD. All powered exclusively by the hu6820.

I feel the Turbo used it's CD technology better than the Sega CD.  Mostly because of the FMV shovel ware.

So once again, even though you own all of the isos and have played all of the games, you are still completely clueless about another game library. FMV games are a tiny minority of the Sega/Mega-CD library and the hardware was pushed to amazing levels, as was the CD format.

I had the privilege of growing up with a programmer/engineer.

Did this person give you the impression that all programmers sit at a keyboard with their dick in their hand?

   While this is true to an extent Sapphire is a great game let’s take a close look at it.


First of all in order to play this thing you needed the following while in Japan:

A PC Engine
A CD Rom attachment that then came with the Bios Revision #1
You later purchased Bios revision 2 for CD+G
You later purchased System Card 3.0 to add support for Super CD games
You finally had to purchase an Arcade card to play Sapphire.
You had to purchase Sapphire.

In the states you needed to have the arcade card and a converter and a CD ROM then order the game.  God forbid you call ANY of those upgrades or you will be bashed and burned at the stake so all of the above are NOT upgrades, not at all.

If the MD68K is so powerful, then why is it that in order to play a cart game, you needed the following in Japan:

A Mega Drive
A Mark III Sega Mega Adaptor
A Mega Modem
A Mega-CD
A Super 32X
An Action Replay
A Mega Key
A copy of Sonic & Knuckles
A cleaning kit cart
A copy of the game





God forbid you call ANY of those upgrades or you will be bashed and burned at the stake so all of the above are NOT upgrades, not at all.

Now let’s look at the game and how it plays.

That's a single player playthrough on EASY difficulty genius. Play through the game with 2 players at once on the hardest difficulty to judge what the game and hardware really do.

I don’t think anyone really argues that the PCE sound chip didn’t provide the best sound FX

You are demonstrating once again that you ignore the internet in general, as well as the forum discussion you "participate" in. Many people dislike PCE sound, although they tend to be people who have heard much of it. Still, many more people appreciate it, even on Sega-16. More people in the world think that the Genesis/Mega Drive has terrible sound than do not. They may be biased Nintendo fans, but you are the one using popular opinion as a measure of proof.

First thing you notice is the colors and the MD68K could never hope to have any of this.

The MD68K is a cpu and not a VDP, so your statement is true. But what you really mean, as you've been saying all along, is that the Mega Drive couldn't do any of it. But you're wrong, the Mega Drive could do much of the color/detail/shading, including some entire scenes as-is. It just can't do all of it.

Obvious lack of parallax but that is to be expected as the PCE chose color over multi-scrolling backgrounds.

It is to be expected that a vertical shooter will not necessarily feature much parallax, as they tend to not feature nearly as much as in horizontal shooters, regardless of the hardware being used. Still, Sapphire does have multi-scrolling backgrounds and I can't think of any part of the game where it looks like an extra layer of scrolling should have appeared.

There is nothing going on that the MD68K can’t handle in except color.  The MD68K can handle more detailed sprites on screen and larger at that.  It’s just what the hardware did.

There is more in-game (non-fmv) animation happening than any Mega Drive/Genesis ever did. I don't believe that the MD couldn't do something similar in terms of animation, but you have argued all along that because it didn't happen, the MD can't do it and therefore the PCE is far superior at animation in general.

I don't think you understand the definition of detail, but again, Sapphire tosses around as many sprites across the screen as any MD game ever has. But again, "larger" sprites is a strength of PCE games. MD and SNES games usually use a tile layer for large enemies, while the PCE usually uses massive sprites, comparable to the arcade games that Game Fan went on and on about (Juggernaut, Lucifeller, etc). If you stop lying and actually start playing all of those roms and isos, you'll soon notice than large sprites are a trademark of PCE games more so than MD or SNES games. If you look at the MD and PCE games with the most sprites on screen at a time, they look more or less the same. It's only the SNES that lacks games with that level of screen-filling sprites.

That’s why you never saw a game as capable with as large of bosses and the speed they had in games such as Alien Soldier or Gunstar Heroes without cuts in multi scrolling backgrounds.

You've brought up Alien Soldier again as proof of the MD68K superiority. But if you've witnessed the game on real hardware, you'd notice the regular slowdown. That's why it's a favorite demonstration of Genesis overclockers, who attempt to bump up that superior MD68K cpu to try to minimize the slowdown. There are many MD and PCE games with a comparable amount of action happening, where you'll see more slowdown in MD games.

Alien Soldier is another Treasure game with a bunch of neat effects, but they're usually a showcase for the overall MD hardware, not the cpu. They're designed around the system's weaknesses as much as its strengths. Just like top quality PCE and SNES games. A top quality game designed around one hardware won't turn out as good if an exact port is attempted. But working around the target hardware's strengths and weaknesses will result in something also great, only somewhat different.

The MD can't do Sapphire as-is, but it could do a cool version of it. Same goes with any 2D MD game ported to PCE.

I hate to bring out this game but everyone points to it.  What is happening that can’t happen on the MD68K?  Right out of the gate the sound FX would be better, you could through more sprites at it or move the bosses or sub bosses faster.

Again, I'll assume that by "MD68K" you really mean "Mega Drive". Maybe you should start playing more of your Mega Drive roms and pay attention to intense games and see how well the MD handles stuff like (or the closest it has to) Sapphire. Pause the game during the slowdown in stage one of Ranger X and look at how much is onscreen at the time. Compare that to the busiest parts of Sapphire in 2 player mode on the hardest difficulty.

The MD and PCE can do a comparable amount of action that sets them apart from the SNES. The MD can do more with background layering and some unique special effects and the PCE can do more in terms of actual graphic quality (shading/detail/color). Most experts seem to agree that the PCE hardware is better at animation, but they're still comparable. There is no "smashing victory" in terms of processing power when it comes to regular 16-bit games (2D stuff). The MD is probably the best at polygons, but still can't do much and from what I've read, the advantage is more than cpu based. The SNES can still do things that the 32X and Sega-CD can't and its average 2D games are still impressive overall for the time. You don't need crazy action all the time for every type of game. Overall, the MD, PCE and SNES produced comparable games, that's why they're all the same class and the PCE isn't "straddling the 8 - 16-bit barrier". If it was, then games like Sapphire only pull the MD and SNES down to sub-16-bit levels.

[EvilEvoIX]

My Lord!!!!! such anger (fanaticism?)  I mean….  Once you start hearing “Cunt Drip” and I believe someone dropped the N-Bomb, on PCE Forums people the N-BOMB!!!  Some of you have lost it.

Quotes from EvilEvoX in this same thread-

Reminds me of that fat chick on the view that prefaced everything with “I’m a lawyer”.  

Patented Fan Boi Argument 1

What I am going to attempt to do, and I ask for the fan bois to pull off their rose colored glasses, is compare the MD68K to the HU6280.

Butt-hurt?  Sorry you feel that way :/

Are we to judge the TG-16 based upon Bravo-Man or the pile of shit we westerners were given?  Everyone is quick to make excuses for that plague of shit and everyone looks passed that.  So I say we get to look passed piles of shit on the MD as well and there are bad PORTS but you mean to tell me a game like UMK3 would run as well, with as much animation and speed, and proper sound FX; dreaming.

Look at Sonic 2, the amount of shit going on in that game, the quality of sound FX and Music and then the speed, no f*cking way.

Look at f*cking Altered Beast?  Why is that shittyness ignored?  Apples to Apples MD Vs. PCE.  Great Animation intro thanks to CD Rom, great voice over, then 8-bit shittyness.

Oh and SHit Dick, I have all the games, and now all the systems and last I checked a CD Burner.  I've played the games, they are fun, stop it.  You guys get butt-hurt so easily and AGAIN I point out that hardware=shit when the software = shit.

Just because I didn’t sit there with my dick in my hand and a computer keyboard in the other doesn’t mean I don’t know what these systems can do.

What the f*ck was I thinking?

Fon Boi facts aside it is a better processor.

I'm sorry you are butt hurt and took things personally.

Listen guys, I can go to the MD sites and the Neo Sites and there are programmers just as bright eyed and furious as you are that shit over the HU6280 and support the MD68K with ans much vigor and propaganda as some of you.

Trouble is everyone I know or ever knew seems to agree with me, in fact this is the only site that seems to have trouble understanding what is obvious to anyone with a pair of ears and eyes.

On Sega-16, a Genesis/Mega Drive centric site, the programmers there said pretty much the same things that the programmers here are saying. You were ridiculed by everyone (not just programmers) much more on that site than here.

The amount of excuses being made and the amount of facts just obliterated are beyond even what I get on www.neo-geo.com and that is saying something.

So this is yet another forum where people actually don't agree with you?

I’m not going to do that and for the record have never shit on the PCE.

Except these examples in this same thread-

Music?  Not gona happen with those scratchy bleeps and bloops unless you go CD.

Great Animation intro thanks to CD Rom, great voice over, then 8-bit shittyness.

Look at f*cking Altered Beast?  Why is that shittyness ignored?  Apples to Apples MD Vs. PCE.  Great Animation intro thanks to CD Rom, great voice over, then 8-bit shittyness.  What excuse is there?  Why couldn't the game look as good as the MD?  Look how choppy and darty the animation is?  The music sounds like it's coming from a Halmark Music Card.  And now you tell me Earthworm Jim can come from this?

Here is a great example of true "fan boi" "rose colored glasses" and just inability to judge graphics in general. That CD intro? It's terrible and features zero "Animation". That "8-bit shittyness" looks much better than the Mega Drive version, with more detail, shading and better color. As for "choppy and darty the animation", again it is the exact opposite in reality and yet another way the PCE version is noticeably better. I'm guessing that you've never heard the sound running off of real hardware, but you've already established that you hate all PCE sound by default of being from the PCE, no matter how similar any particular game may sound to the Mega Drive version.


8-BIT SHITTYNESS <---------------------> NOT choppy and darty the animation













I think that this sums up best which version truly looks the closest to "8-bit"-

I have all three of them since day one, act one, scene one.  I have all the games now as well and years of experience.

You refused to comment on so many games during Sega-16 discussions, so I'll ask you again, if you've played all the games, even if only roms and isos, what did you think of Anearth Fantasy Stories, Gulliver Boy, Legend of Xanadu I & II, Ys IV and Cosmic Fantasy IV Chapters 1 & 2?

You really can’t compare the Sega CD to the Turbo CD as the Sega CD is so much more powerful as upgrades are SUPPOSED TO BE.

The Sega-CD is a hardware upgrade. It replaces the Genesis "MD68K" cpu with a more powerful one and adds new graphics capabilities (among other things). The PCE CD-ROM only allows the same old PCE cpu to run games the exact same way, while also controlling a CD drive, streaming CD music and using adpcm samples through an extra channel (many games don't use any of those additions much of the time). Although you are correct that it shouldn't be fair to compare the powerful Sega-CD hardware to a PCE CD-ROM setup... the PCE CD still has more impressive 2D games than the Sega-CD. All powered exclusively by the hu6820.

I feel the Turbo used it's CD technology better than the Sega CD.  Mostly because of the FMV shovel ware.

So once again, even though you own all of the isos and have played all of the games, you are still completely clueless about another game library. FMV games are a tiny minority of the Sega/Mega-CD library and the hardware was pushed to amazing levels, as was the CD format.

I had the privilege of growing up with a programmer/engineer.

Did this person give you the impression that all programmers sit at a keyboard with their dick in their hand?

  While this is true to an extent Sapphire is a great game let’s take a close look at it.


First of all in order to play this thing you needed the following while in Japan:

A PC Engine
A CD Rom attachment that then came with the Bios Revision #1
You later purchased Bios revision 2 for CD+G
You later purchased System Card 3.0 to add support for Super CD games
You finally had to purchase an Arcade card to play Sapphire.
You had to purchase Sapphire.

In the states you needed to have the arcade card and a converter and a CD ROM then order the game.  God forbid you call ANY of those upgrades or you will be bashed and burned at the stake so all of the above are NOT upgrades, not at all.

If the MD68K is so powerful, then why is it that in order to play a cart game, you needed the following in Japan:

A Mega Drive
A Mark III Sega Mega Adaptor
A Mega Modem
A Mega-CD
A Super 32X
An Action Replay
A Mega Key
A copy of Sonic & Knuckles
A cleaning kit cart
A copy of the game





God forbid you call ANY of those upgrades or you will be bashed and burned at the stake so all of the above are NOT upgrades, not at all.

Now let’s look at the game and how it plays.

That's a single player playthrough on EASY difficulty genius. Play through the game with 2 players at once on the hardest difficulty to judge what the game and hardware really do.

I don’t think anyone really argues that the PCE sound chip didn’t provide the best sound FX

You are demonstrating once again that you ignore the internet in general, as well as the forum discussion you "participate" in. Many people dislike PCE sound, although they tend to be people who have heard much of it. Still, many more people appreciate it, even on Sega-16. More people in the world think that the Genesis/Mega Drive has terrible sound than do not. They may be biased Nintendo fans, but you are the one using popular opinion as a measure of proof.

First thing you notice is the colors and the MD68K could never hope to have any of this.

The MD68K is a cpu and not a VDP, so your statement is true. But what you really mean, as you've been saying all along, is that the Mega Drive couldn't do any of it. But you're wrong, the Mega Drive could do much of the color/detail/shading, including some entire scenes as-is. It just can't do all of it.

Obvious lack of parallax but that is to be expected as the PCE chose color over multi-scrolling backgrounds.

It is to be expected that a vertical shooter will not necessarily feature much parallax, as they tend to not feature nearly as much as in horizontal shooters, regardless of the hardware being used. Still, Sapphire does have multi-scrolling backgrounds and I can't think of any part of the game where it looks like an extra layer of scrolling should have appeared.

There is nothing going on that the MD68K can’t handle in except color.  The MD68K can handle more detailed sprites on screen and larger at that.  It’s just what the hardware did.

There is more in-game (non-fmv) animation happening than any Mega Drive/Genesis ever did. I don't believe that the MD couldn't do something similar in terms of animation, but you have argued all along that because it didn't happen, the MD can't do it and therefore the PCE is far superior at animation in general.

I don't think you understand the definition of detail, but again, Sapphire tosses around as many sprites across the screen as any MD game ever has. But again, "larger" sprites is a strength of PCE games. MD and SNES games usually use a tile layer for large enemies, while the PCE usually uses massive sprites, comparable to the arcade games that Game Fan went on and on about (Juggernaut, Lucifeller, etc). If you stop lying and actually start playing all of those roms and isos, you'll soon notice than large sprites are a trademark of PCE games more so than MD or SNES games. If you look at the MD and PCE games with the most sprites on screen at a time, they look more or less the same. It's only the SNES that lacks games with that level of screen-filling sprites.

That’s why you never saw a game as capable with as large of bosses and the speed they had in games such as Alien Soldier or Gunstar Heroes without cuts in multi scrolling backgrounds.

You've brought up Alien Soldier again as proof of the MD68K superiority. But if you've witnessed the game on real hardware, you'd notice the regular slowdown. That's why it's a favorite demonstration of Genesis overclockers, who attempt to bump up that superior MD68K cpu to try to minimize the slowdown. There are many MD and PCE games with a comparable amount of action happening, where you'll see more slowdown in MD games.

Alien Soldier is another Treasure game with a bunch of neat effects, but they're usually a showcase for the overall MD hardware, not the cpu. They're designed around the system's weaknesses as much as its strengths. Just like top quality PCE and SNES games. A top quality game designed around one hardware won't turn out as good if an exact port is attempted. But working around the target hardware's strengths and weaknesses will result in something also great, only somewhat different.

The MD can't do Sapphire as-is, but it could do a cool version of it. Same goes with any 2D MD game ported to PCE.

I hate to bring out this game but everyone points to it.  What is happening that can’t happen on the MD68K?  Right out of the gate the sound FX would be better, you could through more sprites at it or move the bosses or sub bosses faster.

Again, I'll assume that by "MD68K" you really mean "Mega Drive". Maybe you should start playing more of your Mega Drive roms and pay attention to intense games and see how well the MD handles stuff like (or the closest it has to) Sapphire. Pause the game during the slowdown in stage one of Ranger X and look at how much is onscreen at the time. Compare that to the busiest parts of Sapphire in 2 player mode on the hardest difficulty.

The MD and PCE can do a comparable amount of action that sets them apart from the SNES. The MD can do more with background layering and some unique special effects and the PCE can do more in terms of actual graphic quality (shading/detail/color). Most experts seem to agree that the PCE hardware is better at animation, but they're still comparable. There is no "smashing victory" in terms of processing power when it comes to regular 16-bit games (2D stuff). The MD is probably the best at polygons, but still can't do much and from what I've read, the advantage is more than cpu based. The SNES can still do things that the 32X and Sega-CD can't and its average 2D games are still impressive overall for the time. You don't need crazy action all the time for every type of game. Overall, the MD, PCE and SNES produced comparable games, that's why they're all the same class and the PCE isn't "straddling the 8 - 16-bit barrier". If it was, then games like Sapphire only pull the MD and SNES down to sub-16-bit levels.

I'm sorry am I supposed to read all that?  I saw the fan boi genesis stacker series of hardware and its cute.  It's also cute to compare cd storage of animation to cart storage, really is an apples to apples example.  Did you even sit down and play altered beast for the PCE vs the MD!  Are you sure you want to make that argument?  Should I say that that MD68k is faster and moves more sprites faster and alien soldier could not be done on the PCE yet the MD could handle Sapphire without arcade card upgrades and add a multiple scrolling background to give some visual if depth?  Yes PCE CD games rule I'm playing one now.  Get over the sprite limit and move on.
Also I already stated that the PCE cd rom to me is better.  I have a stack of sega cd games that just collect dust and I've been running through most of my PCE cd games burned or otherwise.  Beats the shit outa emulators.  Sega cd just had a lot of clunkers IMHO.   No real graphical upgrades except cd sound.  Batman retuns I liked the driving and even cliff hanger the snow bonding.  I don't play RPGs.
Just saying....

[Arkhan]

See this is what I'm talking about, semantics.  You just admitted the MD68k can handle more sprites and I've been shouting it from the rooftops yet you still call me an idiot.  Ummmm, so in the late 80's early 90's one could argue that most game consoles were 2d sprite based machines and I argued that since the MD68k could handle more sprites in screen at once in addition to multi scrolling backgrounds one could indeed conclude a distinct advantage however I wouldn't call it a complete advantage.

The MD can handle "more sprites on screen at once", but the PCE can handle more sprite PIXELS on screen at once.  So which one is actually better, especially when you consider that sprites are often used for things like scenery and HUDs and shit.

So, PCE can move more pixels around at a time than the MD, and with better colors, to boot.

The PCE does 8-bit things better.  not doing Alien Soldier, sorry.  Its all over the net and in publications you had no monopoly on duch information do quit acting like you just pulled the curtain back.  I also know it does so better than the PCE.  More sprites, more detail, faster.  It's there in black and white and with all the bitching I am getting everyone seems to dance around that statement.   

Monopoly on what information?  No one here is acting like we just unveiled some huge surprise.   We're stating fairly obvious things, assuming you have any bearing on CPUs and programming.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pc+engine+can%27t+do+alien+storm

What information is all over the internet?

Also, what's your fascination with Alien Storm?   The PC Engine can do that.   The main levels are pretty uninspiring and simple, and the shooting parts just use line-scrolling, which anyone knows the PCE can do.

Also, there isn't that much sprite action going on in the beat em up sections...

[VenomMacbeth]

Also, what's your fascination with Alien Storm?   The PC Engine can do that.   The main levels are pretty uninspiring and simple, and the shooting parts just use line-scrolling, which anyone knows the PCE can do.

Also, there isn't that much sprite action going on in the beat em up sections...

Alien Soldier, Arkhan.

Not like it actually matters because it's still completely irrelevant.

[EvilEvoIX]

Just Christ what do you guys want from me?  Is it my fault that the folks at NEC released a plague of shitty 8 bit looking games in the west and in order to get any comparable game you needed a converter and 3 system card upgrades just get on an even playing field?  Why do people keep masturbating to SAPPHIRE its a great game and all but not the end all be all.  The MD68k and the PC engine are comparable.  I get it I know it.  Lets are it pull off some of the arcade craziness the MD did, it didn't.  It couldn't.  Why am I bring crucified? 

[soop]

^
This user is currently ignored.

[Bonknuts]

touko: Sorry that EvilEvoIX ruined this thread. I don't see any point in furthering this discussion if people have to wade through all this crap just to read what is topic related (even ourselves). If you create a new one, I'd be happy to join in (rather not have to do this on another site forum, but if so then no problem. Maybe MooZ's forum). Maybe the mods can somehow keep EvilEvoIX out of it. Dunno.

[VenomMacbeth]

We get it, Evo.  Sega does what NECan't & we unfairly "crucified" you for hijacking a thread to purvey your dumbassery.

Now who's butthurt?

[soop]

f*cking dick.  I hate censorship, but please Tom don't cease this thread, it's easily the best current thread here.  If Aaron can/wants to delete him and his threads, it's a necessary evil.