Author Topic: Selling Back-ups, your thoughts... (Read 1349 times)

LMS · « **on:** April 10, 2006, 09:53:57 AM »

Easy guys,
I'm pretty new around here so be nice

I was wondering what people think about PCE and PCFX CDrs?

Personally I'm down with the idea; it's a good way of testing out games before shelling out for real copies. I only buy complete games (nice condition with box, etc) as to me collecting is as much about the artwork and package as a whole. I get as much satisfaction from the site of all my stuff as I do from playing with it. On many occasions I've introduced friends to games via CDrs that they wouldn't have otherwise seen and that's a nice thing to do, right?

I'm also of the opinion that as long as you don't pretend it's anything but a copy and charge no more than for the disc, postage and your time burning it then you're not ripping people off.
As far as cheating the company that made it out of cash, this makes copying current games a definite ethical no no but with PCE & PCFX stuff it's all out of print and I'm pretty sure no suppliers still have any new stock on consignment from original distributors.

Don't get me wrong, I don't do this on a regular basis (only when friends request really) but I'm interested in what other people think.

What you saying people?

motdelbuort · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2006, 10:39:05 AM »

I have no problem with giving the stuff away, but I mostly disagree with what you're proposing. I'm not sure why you're asking this, but here are a couple thoughts.

1. Since PCE games are going to be available on the Revolution soon, this would disqualify your exception regarding which games its okay to sell copies of and which ones would not. Not to mention that Turbo Zone Direct does still sell consignment from original distributors.

That's the commercial front. As a fan:

1. Charging even one cent for something is very different than giving it away for free. Imagine if you had to pay for all those roms and mp3s on your computer. It's an insult to fans to take advantage of them in this way, just like the Magic Engine is an insult when better emulators for other systems are free. But at least the Magic Engine is a nice little piece of software that the guy created himself, however disappointing it is that he chooses to charge for it. A cdr seller does little more than hit record on a cd burner and collect money.

2. How much is your time worth? Other people are giving away their time as fans to share their enjoyment of the Turbo by making websites, even share roms and isos. What makes your time so special?

The grey area for me is not some hack charging $5 a pop or more for cdrs (no offense to you personally), but the Sapphire reprint. I don't have the reprint but it's clearly a nice product, the likes of which appeals only to strong fans. Whoever made it put some work into it and delivered a nice product on par with a commercial release. Couple that with the prohibitive cost of the original and the bootleg in this specific case starts to sound like a good deal.

LeeT · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2006, 12:06:30 PM »

I have no problem with people SHARING copies of PCE games but to sell copies is wrong.

pixeljunkie · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2006, 12:08:43 PM »

Quote from: "LeeT"

I have no problem with people SHARING copies of PCE games but to sell copies is wrong.

ditto

selling is shitty

rolins · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2006, 12:39:21 PM »

Quote from: "LeeT"

I have no problem with people SHARING copies of PCE games but to sell copies is wrong.

Agreed.

Selling backups is a no-no. I have no problem with sharing them for free or trading them for other CDR backups.

I do want to get something in return because nothing is for free. Some of my friends request copies of my games all the time, and I don't mind handing out backups just as long as they buy me lunch.

LMS · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2006, 12:40:29 PM »

some very fair coments guys.

In regards to why I'm asking this; I've been selling off a lot of stuff recently (real games, not copies) and while sorting out deals with poeple I've got into a few discussions about this and been doing some CDrs for people as a kind of bonus service when they buy a few real bits.

I just recently agreed a sale for Team innocent (PCFX) with someone on this forum and offered them Zenki, Chip chan kick & Super God Trooper Back-ups as those games are worth pretty stupid sums of money for what they are but to any excited new PCFX owner is seems a shame not to be able to check them out. I have a real copy of chip chan kick for sale and I know what it's worth but i can completely understand the buyer not being into spending that kind of money as you do have to be kind of obssesive to pay what it's arguably worth. I'm charging £3 per disc to cover the cd, postage and my time because to be frank, I work freelance and it genuinely is time I would otherwise spend working.

I'm not trying to champion my opinion here, and being new here I'm certainly not trying to alienate myself already (I hope this isn't having that effect), I'm just curious as to what other people think. The point made by motdelbuort about the revolution service is totally valid and exactly the sort of thing that could make me reconsider.

keep it coming, what do the rest of you think?

out of interest, if you think it's wrong to be charging money for sharing these (fair point) even if it's only to cover logistical costs, how about if someone was to host a load of ISOs for public (free) download?

GUTS · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2006, 06:44:26 PM »

I have no problem with it, if people want to pay then charge them whatever you can, who cares. Honestly even when they're available on the Rev, who's gonna give a shit? The type of people who would pay Nintendo to download TG games are still gonna download them, one guy or hell 1000 guys selling Duo CDRs aren't going to make a difference in their profits.

Keranu · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2006, 09:33:38 PM »

I agree with GUTS, but I don't really care who sells what and for how much.

_joshuaTurbo · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2006, 05:41:44 AM »

I have traded ISO's on CDR and gave them away for free. I've also gotten some for free with REAL copies of the game that I purchased... VERY COOL IDEA.

Playing CD-R's instead of beating up your REAL copies is a good idea IMO.

But from what I've heard the Turbo Duo really takes a beating when playing ISO's on CD. That could be a big reason why SO many Duo's are putzing out lately... Mine included....TWICE!!

Never had any trouble until I started playing ISO's.....hmmm.

I simply use my ISO's on Emulators, and thats it. I'll never play them on my Turbo again!

NEVAR!!

TurboSage

td741 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:04:30 AM »

I've never played any CDRs and I've had 3 duo's CD drives die on me...

Personally, I'd only chance a CDR via emulation.

motdelbuort · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2006, 08:10:39 AM »

Quote from: "td741"

I've never played any CDRs and I've had 3 duo's CD drives die on me...

Personally, I'd only chance a CDR via emulation.

The commercial version of Meteor Blaster is a CDR, and every time I try to play it I have to take a screwdriver and unjam the lens mechanism inside the Duo. It jams up on the load screen and no discs will spin. I contacted MindRec about it and apparently there is nowhere left that can press a real TurboGrafx CD. Which makes me wonder even more how/when the Sapphire reprint was pressed.

radiantgun · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2006, 08:52:11 AM »

Woot LMS is in the UK I'll take a hundred Bootleg CDRs !

hehe

I say do what you want to do mate if people want to buy them let them to those that wouldn't touch a CDR dont buy one ! Choice - it's an amazing word !

Me personally,I have a few but I do own the originals - Kaze Kiri Drac X comes to mind, I would buy CDRs before I would contemplate spending £100 + of my hard earned money on the *rare* titles.

Emulation is fine but it still doesnt feel *right* to holding an engine pad and flicking the switch and hearing it stir into life ! Stick a CDR in and youve got the engine *feel*.

Superfamifreak · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2006, 08:58:34 AM »

Personally I'd never get a CD-R again as the last time I used one, it f*cked up my Duo.

If people want to take that risk then fair enough.

motdelbuort · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2006, 10:22:45 AM »

Quote from: "radiantgun"

Woot LMS is in the UK I'll take a hundred Bootleg CDRs ! hehe

I say do what you want to do mate if people want to buy them let them to those that wouldn't touch a CDR dont buy one ! Choice - it's an amazing word !

Me personally,I have a few but I do own the originals - Kaze Kiri Drac X comes to mind, I would buy CDRs before I would contemplate spending £100 + of my hard earned money on the *rare* titles.

Emulation is fine but it still doesnt feel *right* to holding an engine pad and flicking the switch and hearing it stir into life ! Stick a CDR in and youve got the engine *feel*.

Except your "choice" to buy or sell cdrs makes it harder for me to get isos /emulators/what have you for free; people get a whiff of money in the air and it ruins the fun for fans who want to be able to try a game (possibly before buying it) without buying a cdr.

In other words it's a choice you have, but one of the options makes buyers/sellers a$$holes in all but the most expensive cases, like the ones you mentioned.

In any case, emule has lots of pce isos for free, and i'll be happy to put mine in my shared folder for you if you want to take a crack at them. No need to buy them from LMS or anyone else.

NightWolve · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2006, 12:07:30 PM »

Quote from: "motdelbuort"

Quote from: "td741"
I've never played any CDRs and I've had 3 duo's CD drives die on me...

Personally, I'd only chance a CDR via emulation.

The commercial version of Meteor Blaster is a CDR, and every time I try to play it I have to take a screwdriver and unjam the lens mechanism inside the Duo. It jams up on the load screen and no discs will spin. I contacted MindRec about it and apparently there is nowhere left that can press a real TurboGrafx CD. Which makes me wonder even more how/when the Sapphire reprint was pressed.

I wonder if that has to do with the non-standard track arrangment he did with those two games. I think it was a mistake personally. Basically, he added a 3 second pregap to the first data track. Now, you're only supposed to do that if a data track comes after an audio track, that is, a transition from an audio track, to a data track. This makes the first track start on LBA 225 and what's interesting is that it's serving as a cheap copy protection when it comes to CDRWIN at least. Every other PC-Engine/TG-16 disc starts at LBA 0 with track 1, but those two Meteor games, start at LBA 225. If you try to rip any of those two games with CDRWIN, the CUE will be offset by that 225, completely screwing up the start and end of every audio track thereafter, so the game won't work properly if you reburn that BIN/CUE. Probably other ripping/burning software can handle it fine, though.