Author Topic: Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...  (Read 1350 times)

nodtveidt

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 12:21:34 PM »
The Sapphire copy was made in 2001, a couple of years before Eclipse changed their software to support a smaller, more rigid set of standards.

PC Gaijin

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2006, 12:27:51 PM »
I am against it. Selling and profiting off of CDRs is wrong. I also think giving away CDRs with games you sell is wrong. It's a way of providing an incentive for someone to purchase your game, so in a way you're profiting off bootlegs again.

Speaking of bootlegs...I was always amused by the term "backup". A backup is a copy you make of legitimately purchased media for your own use. Anything else whether sold or given away is pirated/bootlegged/warezed. Just threw that out there LMS because in your original post you mentioned not pretending it's anything but a copy, but calling it a "backup" is pretending a little. :wink:

vestcoat

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2006, 01:04:59 PM »
Quote from: "motdelbuort"


Except your "choice" to buy or sell cdrs makes it harder for me to get isos /emulators/what have you for free; people get a whiff of money in the air and it ruins the fun for fans who want to be able to try a game (possibly before buying it) without buying a cdr.


Thank you for making this point.  I agree wholeheartedly.
I think of CDr's the same way i use music cassette tapes or CDr's.  I listen to them, i trade them, i copy old LPs for friends...etc.
However, if i saw people selling music CDr's or cassettes on Ebay (or any other website) i'd be seriously pissed off.  If you know where to look you can find just about any song or video game online for free.   CDr's are cheap and i don't think its right for people to be making money on something they got for free.

This is the kind of BS really gets my goat:

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-PC-ENGINE-GAMES-DRACULA-X_W0QQitemZ8276218312QQcategoryZ72501QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

ebay apparently doesn't enforce anything anymore
STATUS: Try not to barf in your mouth.

esteban

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2006, 01:25:27 PM »
Quote from: "PC Gaijin"
I am against it. Selling and profiting off of CDRs is wrong. I also think giving away CDRs with games you sell is wrong. It's a way of providing an incentive for someone to purchase your game, so in a way you're profiting off bootlegs again.

Speaking of bootlegs...I was always amused by the term "backup". A backup is a copy you make of legitimately purchased media for your own use. Anything else whether sold or given away is pirated/bootlegged/warezed. Just threw that out there LMS because in your original post you mentioned not pretending it's anything but a copy, but calling it a "backup" is pretending a little. :wink:
I'm with PC Gaijin and the other folks who took a stand against profiting on CDRs. Don't worry, I'm not trying to criticize any specific people on these forums, I'm simply making a general statement :). It's a strong statement, but not directed at anyone here:

It is seriously lame to try to make money by selling CDRs (this includes sellers who throw in a "free" CDR of Dracula X with a legit original PCE game they are selling. Profiteers like this are a parasite on the Turbo community, IMO ...

ISO's and ROM's are freely available. Use them. Enjoy them. Share them. But don't try to make a cheap buck off of them.

I have no problem with folks trading / sharing CDR's / ISO's / ROM's-- it's no different than folks sharing music, film, and literature. It's when folks try to profit from it that I get upset.

/sermon :)
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GUTS

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2006, 06:45:13 PM »
The point about CDR sellers making ISOs harder to find for free is complete nonsense, they are data and can be replicated infinite times and they will ALWAYS be available out there for free if you look hard enough.

LMS

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2006, 12:03:58 AM »
Here's a thought just to keep the thread lively.

If it's wrong to charge for your time (profit) when supplying CDrs then is it equally wrong for import shops to be selling second hand games as they are profiting (charging for their time) from buying at one price and selling on at another?

I have to agree with GUTS that this process doesn't make it harder for anyone to obtain ISOs, if anything it makes it easier as it increases the amount of people out there that have them to share.

If your answer to the above question is yes then are you of the opinion that everyone in this community (retro games in general, not just this forum) should be 'home collectors' and that there is no room for any business to operate? If you buy any second hand games from shops then you're supporting exactly what you're against, aren't you?

You'll notice I'm stirring things up here on purpose because I'm interested in peoples opinions. Hopefully this isn't going to turn the discussion at all ugly. Think I'll run for some cover anyway, just to be on the safe side.

motdelbuort

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2006, 02:18:38 AM »
Nah, it's okay. Like I said, there's always going to be a few a$$holes around trying to make a quick buck at someone else's expense. Wannabe businessmen do have a way of taking all the fun out of a hobby, ask any former comic book collector. The PCE attracts this kind of person, I'm not sure why. But then there are awesome people who are making translations, running free bootleg rings, making sweet videos etc.  And fortunately free stuff IS abundant enough, as somebody said, that they will only mostly be able to prey on casual users, which is most people. Before CDRs were common, someone tried to sell me a Dracula X CDR for $75 "due to rarity."  :roll:

pixeljunkie

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2006, 04:33:25 AM »
I think charging a couple bucks for a CDR of a game is okay...but charging different prices based on the games OMG RaRE!!!11!! is retarded [not that you said anything about that....just saying] I've bought a few CDRs of PCE games I was sick of hunting for ISOs of in the past. But I think I paid $3 shipped for each. I don't play CDrs in my Duo if I can help it though. I think the only CDR I've had in there in the last year was the english patched Ys 4.

I avoid them like the plague otherwise.

esteban

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2006, 11:39:24 PM »
Hi LMS, don't worry, I love you, but here goes .... :)

Quote from: "LMS"
Here's a thought just to keep the thread lively.

If it's wrong to charge for your time (profit) when supplying CDrs then is it equally wrong for import shops to be selling second hand games as they are profiting (charging for their time) from buying at one price and selling on at another?
No, you're comparing apples to oranges. Re-selling an original item is *NOT* analagous to selling copies of said item. You seem to be focusing exclusively on the final result of a transaction (i.e. making a profit) and ignoring the nature of the transaction itself.

When you buy an original (legal) item, you have certain "consumer rights" governing its use... The right to resell the item (and, in turn, for each subsequent owner to resell it) is one of these rights:
First Sale Doctrine explained:
Quote
... Copyright owners hold an exclusive right to distribute copies of their work.  The first sale doctrine is an exception to this right.  As codified in 17 USC 109, as long as the particular copy was lawfully made, whoever owns it can distribute it however he chooses without infringing.  Thus, after a copyright holder distributes a particular copy of a copyrighted work, their right to control distribution of that particular copy is over.  Note that the copyright holder retains the right to distribute their copyrighted work in general, but loses rights to the particular distributed copy.

Examples of this doctrine in action are numerous.  Video rental stores depend on the doctrine; once they purchase a copy of a video or DVD, they can distribute it to customers on whatever terms they choose, without consulting the copyright owner.  Used book and CD stores depend on the doctrine; people can buy a CD, sell it to the store, which can then resell the CD, all without the authorization of the copyright owner.  You can lend a book to a friend because of first sale.  (Certain restrictions on rental do apply to music and computer programs, with exceptions for libraries and non-profit institutions.) ...

So, you *can* resell legally owned items. You are not granted the right to make unlimited CDR copies and sell them for profit, however.
Quote from: "LMS"
If your answer to the above question is yes then are you of the opinion that everyone in this community (retro games in general, not just this forum) should be 'home collectors' and that there is no room for any business to operate? If you buy any second hand games from shops then you're supporting exactly what you're against, aren't you?
As I've argued, there *is* room for business in the retro gaming community: selling / reselling original games. Does this mean that all folks selling original games are "reasonable" and aren't profiteers? Of course not, there are some bastards who see nothing but $$$$. Folks selling CDR's are no better, IMO, because all they see are the $$$$ they can make from homemade copies.

Let's be honest, there is no altruism involved in selling CDR's / ROM collections / etc. If you want to help fellow gamers obtain games, there are countless ways you could achieve this goal. As I stated in my first post, the Turbo community needs active members .... but it certainly doesn't need parasites and profiteers.

Trying to make a quick buck: There's no dignity in it.

/sermon :)
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dairugger

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2006, 09:00:00 PM »
while were talking about it, does anyone know where i might get Super God Trooper Zeroigar (Tyoushin Heiki Zeroigar), i want to play this game sooo bad, and see what my fx can do, but its wayyyy expensive!

LMS

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2006, 11:39:19 PM »
I'll send it to you if you don't mind paying the postage. Send me a PM if you're interested.

_joshuaTurbo

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CDR's for all!!
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2006, 07:48:30 AM »
Yeah me too!!!



Everyone has there ways of attaining great games.  If its paying over $100 dollars for a game that was originally half that much or making backups.  Its all good here!



TurboSage

Any means necassary to spread the NEC love!


esteban

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2006, 09:24:48 PM »
Quote from: "radiantgun"
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AI-CHO-ANIKI-PC-Engine-Duo-3-FREE-CD-Games-RARE_W0QQitemZ8277599599QQcategoryZ72501QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

tut tut )
Yes, as vestcoat stated earlier, sellers who employ this tactic are quite lame.
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rolins

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Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2006, 10:07:25 AM »
Quote from: "radiantgun"
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AI-CHO-ANIKI-PC-Engine-Duo-3-FREE-CD-Games-RARE_W0QQitemZ8277599599QQcategoryZ72501QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

tut tut )


At least this seller is honest and clearly stated the free games are backups. Unlike the other bastards who are selling bootlegs of DracX with ME without any disclaimer. Those seller makes me want to cut their balls off and flush them down the toilet.