Selling Back-ups, your thoughts...

[Black Tiger]

I've never played any CDRs and I've had 3 duo's CD drives die on me...  

Personally, I'd only chance a CDR via emulation.

The commercial version of Meteor Blaster is a CDR, and every time I try to play it I have to take a screwdriver and unjam the lens mechanism inside the Duo. It jams up on the load screen and no discs will spin. I contacted MindRec about it and apparently there is nowhere left that can press a real TurboGrafx CD. Which makes me wonder even more how/when the Sapphire reprint was pressed.

I've heard people mention this before, that the Mindrec discs are all cdr.

But my copy of Implode looks identical to the bootleg Sapphire, with the thick inner ring and UPC bar code looking thing. Both are nice and golden and have writing burnt write into that inner ring.

How are these cdrs? And if they really are, where can I get some of these blank?

Speaking of bootlegs...I was always amused by the term "backup". A backup is a copy you make of legitimately purchased media for your own use. Anything else whether sold or given away is pirated/bootlegged/warezed. Just threw that out there LMS because in your original post you mentioned not pretending it's anything but a copy, but calling it a "backup" is pretending a little.

How about "China", "Chinese" or "HK", "Hong Kong" versions?

[bt]

I've heard people mention this before, that the Mindrec discs are all cdr.

But my copy of Implode looks identical to the bootleg Sapphire, with the thick inner ring and UPC bar code looking thing. Both are nice and golden and have writing burnt write into that inner ring.

Implode was never done on CD-Rs, with the notable exception of "Implode Caravan Version" (a version which appears on the MB DX CD).  3 Copies of this exist on CD-R, they were made for the MAGFest back in 2002.  I know where are 3 copies are, so no fear of you having one....

By the time Meteor Blaster was ready to be pressed, the ability to press commercial PCE CDs was gone.  You can see my posting in the CF2 re-release thread about this.  But basically, all MB CDs are CD-Rs.  I fully admit it, but this is by no fault of my own, it had to do with the Glass Master software that the CD Pressing Houses use.

-bt

[Black Tiger]

I've heard people mention this before, that the Mindrec discs are all cdr.

But my copy of Implode looks identical to the bootleg Sapphire, with the thick inner ring and UPC bar code looking thing. Both are nice and golden and have writing burnt write into that inner ring.

Implode was never done on CD-Rs, with the notable exception of "Implode Caravan Version" (a version which appears on the MB DX CD).  3 Copies of this exist on CD-R, they were made for the MAGFest back in 2002.  I know where are 3 copies are, so no fear of you having one....

By the time Meteor Blaster was ready to be pressed, the ability to press commercial PCE CDs was gone.  You can see my posting in the CF2 re-release thread about this.  But basically, all MB CDs are CD-Rs.  I fully admit it, but this is by no fault of my own, it had to do with the Glass Master software that the CD Pressing Houses use.

-bt

Cool, thanks for clearing that up.

At least we know of one place that can still press PCE games.  

[bt]

At least we know of one place that can still press PCE games.  

Um, where?  

I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that new PCE CDs are extinct unless the Glass Mastering software companies re-add the ability to override what they feel a CD layout should look like.

-bt

[Black Tiger]

At least we know of one place that can still press PCE games.  

Um, where?  

I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that new PCE CDs are extinct unless the Glass Mastering software companies re-add the ability to override what they feel a CD layout should look like.

-bt

This company seems to be pumping out quite a few copies of Sapphire:

http://www.copyfactory.ch/

[bt]

This company seems to be pumping out quite a few copies of Sapphire:

They did, are you sure they still can?  The Sapphire boots came out about the same time that Implode did (2001 to 2002), the world of Glass Mastering has changed in those few years, so that "off-spec" CDs can no longer be made by the standard Glass Mastering softwares (Eclipse Suite being the primary one, and I honestly do not remember the name of the other major player in this field).

I am very doubtful that a PCE CD could be made right now, anywhere.  I hope I am wrong, and I hope that this changes, but knowing what I know (having gone through the whole process), I am not going to hold my breath.

-bt

[Black Tiger]

This company seems to be pumping out quite a few copies of Sapphire:

They did, are you sure they still can?  The Sapphire boots came out about the same time that Implode did (2001 to 2002), the world of Glass Mastering has changed in those few years, so that "off-spec" CDs can no longer be made by the standard Glass Mastering softwares (Eclipse Suite being the primary one, and I honestly do not remember the name of the other major player in this field).

I am very doubtful that a PCE CD could be made right now, anywhere.  I hope I am wrong, and I hope that this changes, but knowing what I know (having gone through the whole process), I am not going to hold my breath.

-bt

Wow, I had no idea that the Sapphire "reprints" had been in circulation for so long.

If its true that noboby, or at least particulary Care4Data, can make PCE cds now, at least one good thing to come of it is that it would mean that there is a limited number of Sapphire bootlegs around.

Even though its probably a ratio of 100 fakes for every authentic copy.  

[bt]

If its true that noboby, or at least particulary Care4Data, can make PCE cds now, at least one good thing to come of it is that it would mean that there is a limited number of Sapphire bootlegs around.

Even though its probably a ratio of 100 fakes for every authentic copy.  

I doubt that the ratio is that high.... if I were going to bootleg a game, especially at his late time, I woud not do more than 1,000 copies (and that generally seems to be the minimum amount needed for a run of pressed CDs, you can do 500, but the cost is almost the same, so 1,000 is the preferred number).

As for the actual number of legit Sapphires, no real idea, but somewhere in the 5-10,000 range would not surprise me.

-bt

[MottZilla]

So all the disc mastering services have switched over to some newer software that doesn't allow for PCE style discs? That's extremely disappointing.

Are you certain there is no where you can get a glass master made for a non-standard disc? It's truely a shame for PCE CD games made now to have to go on CD-Rs opposed to CD-ROMs.

So did Meteor Blaster get burned on some high quality media and burner and have a label thermal printed or something? I'm curious how you'd go about making them look as professional as possible.

[esteban]

So all the disc mastering services have switched over to some newer software that doesn't allow for PCE style discs? That's extremely disappointing.

Are you certain there is no where you can get a glass master made for a non-standard disc? It's truely a shame for PCE CD games made now to have to go on CD-Rs opposed to CD-ROMs.

I'm sure bt will answer all your questions, but let me assure you that he made an exhaustive search. Sad but true.

[bt]

So all the disc mastering services have switched over to some newer software that doesn't allow for PCE style discs? That's extremely disappointing.

It's not so much that they "switched over" -- but the software used to create glass masters is licensed, so anyone with a license has a more current version than what was used 4 years ago.  Anyone with an older license would find it non-functional, and there is no way to get an older license.

Are you certain there is no where you can get a glass master made for a non-standard disc? It's truely a shame for PCE CD games made now to have to go on CD-Rs opposed to CD-ROMs.

Meteor Blaster DX was delayed for over 3 months while I searched the globe for a place that could do the PCE format.  Now, I am not going to say that there is zero chance of a pressed PCE CD ever happening again, there are a few smaller firms out there that might be running their own Glass Mastering software (more likely, firms in certain parts of the world running hacked versions of the older PCE-friendly versions), and there is a small chance that some sort of ability to make a custom format could be re-added.  But these are exteremely remote possibilities.

So did Meteor Blaster get burned on some high quality media and burner and have a label thermal printed or something? I'm curious how you'd go about making them look as professional as possible.

I had high quality CD-Rs printed with the MB label on them.  Then I burned every single copy that was sold.  At one point I had several laptops going at the same time to churn out versions.  I killed 1 CD-R drive while doing this.

For the record, 500 printed blank CD-Rs cost about the same as 1000 printed, pressed CDs.

-bt

[Bonknuts]

BT,

 What was the exact problem with replicating PCE CDs? I remember hearing that it was the DATA track, but in REDBOOK format. I can't find any specification of a REDBOOK DATA track mode, other than a mention of a off spec version before YELLOW BOOK came out. I can't seem to find the difference between the YB & the off-spec RB data track.

 Wouldn't it be possible to make an ORANGE BOOK glass master and press CD's from that? I've read on a few replicating sites that CD-R's are not true REDBOOK specification discs, but the PCE boots them fine. I know ORANGE BOOK defines physical specifications, but it also defines data/tracks/modes/toc etc.


-Rich

[MottZilla]

Thanks for all the information bt. I really hope you can find a way to get PCE compatible CDs pressed in the future. I know it's alot cheaper in the long run to press discs than to burn and print them.

[bt]

What was the exact problem with replicating PCE CDs?

The PCE format does not adhere to any of the CD Standards, and the Glass Mastering software pretty much forces your CD to one of them.  Since the PCE format is close to Yellow Book, it turns the PCE format into a Yellow Book CD, and this does not work in the console.

-bt

[MottZilla]

Bt, have you seen Super HuCard? It is a single data track disc that loads on real Super CDROM/DUO consoles. I'm not sure I understand what exactly the problem is with glass mastering software, but I'd guess it has to do with the strange audio data audio track layout. And sometimes audio data audio data. But I could be wrong. However if it is the strange A,D,A layout, Super HuCard seems to have figured out a way to get loaded with the first track as a data track. And I'd think you could do a regular mixed mode disc (I think thats the term) Data followed by Audio disc.

As I said though, I was unable to find out just what the issue about making bootable PCE CDs is related to.