Author Topic: Ys Book I & II (TGCD) Vs Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES) which game is better?  (Read 1193 times)

esteban

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LttP is one of the worst Zelda games ever made.  I love the series and play them all, but I would say LttP is only better than Zelda 2 on NES.

Out of curiosity, why so much dislike for Zelda 3?

Yeah, LttP is a great game. I can't believe it's getting less respect than Rodney Dangerfield in this thread. 
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ElSeven

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sad to say, but it's an easy vote for LttP.  No shade to Ys at all, but it just can't compete this time.
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TheClash603

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LttP is one of the worst Zelda games ever made.  I love the series and play them all, but I would say LttP is only better than Zelda 2 on NES.

Out of curiosity, why so much dislike for Zelda 3?

The problem with LttP for me may be nostalgia based, because I played (and still play) the original game many times.  I usually say it is a toss up if Zelda 1 or Street Fighter 2 are my favorite games of all time.

With that said, LttP lost some of the wonder and experimentation / exploration of the first game.  Also, seems like the back tracking was higher in this game than any other Zelda I ever played.  When I played LttP BITD, I just wanted to be playing the original game instead.

turboswimbz

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Both are fantastic games for me.  I really like each.  So to break the tie I went with my favorite in the series.  And so far YS 1 and 2 are by far my favorite game of the series, while A link to the past is not nearly my favorite game in the zelda series, although pretty high.  I think either way you got some good games there.  I'm guessing it is just a matter of prefrence on which one people will perfer.

I must say overall though I would put it as:
Zelda Series > Ys Series
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Tatsujin

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LttP is one of the worst Zelda games ever made.  I love the series and play them all, but I would say LttP is only better than Zelda 2 on NES.

Out of curiosity, why so much dislike for Zelda 3?

Yeah, LttP is a great game. I can't believe it's getting less respect than Rodney Dangerfield in this thread. 

:lol:

I also like aLttP a lot. I'm also just playing it right now with my older lil :D

it sure is a very good game with a great atmosphere, and therefore a more worthy successor of the zelda franchise.
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Arjak

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This is a tough one, so I'm going to break it down.

Gameplay

Both games have their strengths and weaknesses. Let's take a look at the two main areas both series have in common, combat and puzzle-solving.

In combat, Zelda wins, hands down. There is just something more satisfying about actually swinging a sword at just the right time while dodging an enemy's attacks, and the options to switch things up by using a lot of different pieces of equipment, like an ice beam or a hookshot, some of which are actually required to defeat certain enemies (albeit usually just bosses).

There's a reason Ys eventually started copying this idea to an extent, and that's because combat in the early Ys games, with the exception of certain bosses, was really quite boring once the novelty of the combat system wore off. There's no variety. It's almost completely stat based. Once you discover that you can attack off-center without consequence, that's about it as far as strategy is concerned, except for bosses. In most cases, if you can't beat the enemies, you just go back to the previous area and grind until you can. Most enemies are a joke if you've leveled properly, because once you hit them, they sort of get stun-locked and you can just blitz them until they die. The Fire Spell doesn't help, because again, there's no strategy with normal enemies, just fire until dead. Now, if I recall correctly, there's a couple enemies that are fire-resistant, but they are VERY rare. You also usually have so much MP that it becomes easy to exploit fire magic on the majority of enemies that can be killed with it. Combat in the early Ys games is almost always braindead simple.

Zelda also wins as far as puzzles go. The puzzles in Zelda are intriguing, hard to figure out at first, but once you know the secret, it usually seems obvious in retrospect. And while a lot of the puzzles fall into the trap of 'use most recently obtained item here', in most cases, new surprises are rampant, keeping the player on their toes.

The puzzles in Ys, by comparison, are generally simple roadblocks opened with key items. In most cases, what you have to do is more obvious than in Zelda. Most items are only used once or twice in Ys, whereas most items in Zelda usually have many uses throughout the rest of the game. There are a few REALLY clever ideas in Ys, like turning into a monster and speaking to them, which are so brilliant and well-executed that it makes you want to cheer, but those moments are few in quantity.

In general, Zelda wins in the gameplay department. Ys has its clever moments and unique ways of doing things, but Zelda's gameplay is much more refined and intelligent.

Presentation

Both Link to the Past and Ys I & II have graphics that are serviceable, but usually not feasts for the eyes. Ys edges Zelda out due to the advantages of CD hardware, though. The cutscenes in Ys are great feasts for the eyes, and every dungeon looks different. Zelda has...text monologues, and most of the dungeons, if not all of them, use the same tileset with a different palette, and perhaps a few unique elements here and there. Later Zelda games would fix these problems, but here, the limits of the SNES, and cartridge games as a whole, really show.

Audio is a very similar story. Both games have impressive soundtracks, but Ys wins due its CD advantages. Almost every area has a unique music track, and there is not one bad track among them. Zelda has excellent music as well, but less of it. There is a song for the light world dungeons, and one for the dark world dungeons. Both are...OK. Neither ranks among the better songs in the game, which is a problem because the dungeons are where you'll be spending most of your time. Ys also has the 'wow factor' of competent voice acting. Zelda only has text.

Story

In this category, Ys blows Zelda out of the water. In fact, it blows the modern Zelda games out of the water! Every Zelda game has followed the exact same template. You always know what to generally expect. And this template wasn't that interesting to begin with. It basically boils down to saving the land by collecting mystic artifacts.

Ys I falls into the mystic artifact trap too, with the collecting of the Books of Ys, but it still had a dynamic plot compared to Zelda. You were always learning more about what was going on. It set up mysteries early on that were eventually solved. Where did all the silver go? Who is the man in the black cape? Is he the mastermind behind the monsters? Just what DID happen to Ys? It is this mystery that keeps the plot of Ys alive, whereas Zelda's plot is secondary to the action. Ys also has an emotion to the plot that Zelda is lacking. The characters in Ys are drivers of the plot and its impact, whereas Zelda's characters rarely move beyond stereotypes and givers of side-quests. The plot of Ys is also just plain original even to this day, whereas in Zelda's plot every game feels like a retread.

Replay Value

I have only played Link to the Past all the way through once. I have played Ys I & II multiple times, in both the Turbo version and the Eternal/Complete/Chronicles version. While later Zelda games were much better at adding things to keep you playing even after completing the game proper, LttP doesn't have much to say once you've beaten it. There are a few easter eggs and hidden items, but the game itself is such a long, hard haul that I've never really desired to go back to it in earnest. Ys has that special something, that perfect combination of elements that can't be explained, that really makes you want to experience it over and over, even though you're just playing through the same game again. It doesn't make logical sense, but Ys wins here.

Overall Impression

Let's face it, while LttP was a great game for its time, it hasn't aged as well as Ys in many ways. The story is trite, cliched, and formulaic. The dungeons are monotonous in their graphics and sound. In retrospect, it's just another Zelda game. It's not bad, but later games in the series have surpassed it to the point where it's not worth playing today.

The reason Ys stands the test of time so much better is something that I cannot fully explain, but it has to do with being more than the sum of its parts, and almost every part is well crafted. Even though LttP has "better" gameplay, it feels like much more of a slog to play through today than Ys. There's something about Ys that just makes it stand apart even today.

Ys wins.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 02:27:08 PM by Arjak »
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Lochlan

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Both games are really overrated.  Although the ending sequence (especially the ending song) to Ys is absolutely amazing.
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geise

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For a lot of people that didn't play Ys back in the early Turbo days only to play it decades later are usually first turned off by the gameplay.  "What!!!??? You ram them?  LUDICROUS!!!!  Stupid!!!!"  only to "not get it" and just move on. 

That is usually the first thing people always say to me about Ys Book I & II.  As for LttP, it is a great game, but it took me a few times to come back and really sit down to play it.  It didn't grab me at first.  I don't really know what it is, but I tend to have a hard time getting into Zelda games.  All I will say is that I agree with everything Esteban said.  So  my vote is for Ys.

Off topic:  Why in the hell is this not a Zelda VS Neutopia thread?


jperryss

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Off topic:  Why in the hell is this not a Zelda VS Neutopia thread?

Because Neutopia is a blatant ripoff of Zelda and not nearly as good.

And the collision detection sucks.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 04:18:11 PM by jperryss »

BigusSchmuck

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LttP doesn't add anything nor innovative to the genre. Ys was both innovative and had a lot of firsts. Ys wins hands down.

roflmao

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I never played *any* Zelda game bitd, so maybe I'm tarnished, but I LOVED playing through Ys I&II.  I have played through it multiple times since it was released.  However, I have recently picked up LttP and it is a lot of fun.  But I wouldn't trade my memories of Ys for this in a longshot.

Otaking

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Off topic:  Why in the hell is this not a Zelda VS Neutopia thread?

Because Neutopia is a blatant ripoff of Zelda and not nearly as good.

And the collision detection sucks.
yes jperrys that's what I thought too.

Otaking

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This is a tough one, so I'm going to break it down.

Gameplay

Both games have their strengths and weaknesses. Let's take a look at the two main areas both series have in common, combat and puzzle-solving.

In combat, Zelda wins, hands down. There is just something more satisfying about actually swinging a sword at just the right time while dodging an enemy's attacks, and the options to switch things up by using a lot of different pieces of equipment, like an ice beam or a hookshot, some of which are actually required to defeat certain enemies (albeit usually just bosses).

There's a reason Ys eventually started copying this idea to an extent, and that's because combat in the early Ys games, with the exception of certain bosses, was really quite boring once the novelty of the combat system wore off. There's no variety. It's almost completely stat based. Once you discover that you can attack off-center without consequence, that's about it as far as strategy is concerned, except for bosses. In most cases, if you can't beat the enemies, you just go back to the previous area and grind until you can. Most enemies are a joke if you've leveled properly, because once you hit them, they sort of get stun-locked and you can just blitz them until they die. The Fire Spell doesn't help, because again, there's no strategy with normal enemies, just fire until dead. Now, if I recall correctly, there's a couple enemies that are fire-resistant, but they are VERY rare. You also usually have so much MP that it becomes easy to exploit fire magic on the majority of enemies that can be killed with it. Combat in the early Ys games is almost always braindead simple.

Zelda also wins as far as puzzles go. The puzzles in Zelda are intriguing, hard to figure out at first, but once you know the secret, it usually seems obvious in retrospect. And while a lot of the puzzles fall into the trap of 'use most recently obtained item here', in most cases, new surprises are rampant, keeping the player on their toes.

The puzzles in Ys, by comparison, are generally simple roadblocks opened with key items. In most cases, what you have to do is more obvious than in Zelda. Most items are only used once or twice in Ys, whereas most items in Zelda usually have many uses throughout the rest of the game. There are a few REALLY clever ideas in Ys, like turning into a monster and speaking to them, which are so brilliant and well-executed that it makes you want to cheer, but those moments are few in quantity.

In general, Zelda wins in the gameplay department. Ys has its clever moments and unique ways of doing things, but Zelda's gameplay is much more refined and intelligent.

Presentation

Both Link to the Past and Ys I & II have graphics that are serviceable, but usually not feasts for the eyes. Ys edges Zelda out due to the advantages of CD hardware, though. The cutscenes in Ys are great feasts for the eyes, and every dungeon looks different. Zelda has...text monologues, and most of the dungeons, if not all of them, use the same tileset with a different palette, and perhaps a few unique elements here and there. Later Zelda games would fix these problems, but here, the limits of the SNES, and cartridge games as a whole, really show.

Audio is a very similar story. Both games have impressive soundtracks, but Ys wins due its CD advantages. Almost every area has a unique music track, and there is not one bad track among them. Zelda has excellent music as well, but less of it. There is a song for the light world dungeons, and one for the dark world dungeons. Both are...OK. Neither ranks among the better songs in the game, which is a problem because the dungeons are where you'll be spending most of your time. Ys also has the 'wow factor' of competent voice acting. Zelda only has text.

Story

In this category, Ys blows Zelda out of the water. In fact, it blows the modern Zelda games out of the water! Every Zelda game has followed the exact same template. You always know what to generally expect. And this template wasn't that interesting to begin with. It basically boils down to saving the land by collecting mystic artifacts.

Ys I falls into the mystic artifact trap too, with the collecting of the Books of Ys, but it still had a dynamic plot compared to Zelda. You were always learning more about what was going on. It set up mysteries early on that were eventually solved. Where did all the silver go? Who is the man in the black cape? Is he the mastermind behind the monsters? Just what DID happen to Ys? It is this mystery that keeps the plot of Ys alive, whereas Zelda's plot is secondary to the action. Ys also has an emotion to the plot that Zelda is lacking. The characters in Ys are drivers of the plot and its impact, whereas Zelda's characters rarely move beyond stereotypes and givers of side-quests. The plot of Ys is also just plain original even to this day, whereas in Zelda's plot every game feels like a retread.

Replay Value

I have only played Link to the Past all the way through once. I have played Ys I & II multiple times, in both the Turbo version and the Eternal/Complete/Chronicles version. While later Zelda games were much better at adding things to keep you playing even after completing the game proper, LttP doesn't have much to say once you've beaten it. There are a few easter eggs and hidden items, but the game itself is such a long, hard haul that I've never really desired to go back to it in earnest. Ys has that special something, that perfect combination of elements that can't be explained, that really makes you want to experience it over and over, even though you're just playing through the same game again. It doesn't make logical sense, but Ys wins here.

Overall Impression

Let's face it, while LttP was a great game for its time, it hasn't aged as well as Ys in many ways. The story is trite, cliched, and formulaic. The dungeons are monotonous in their graphics and sound. In retrospect, it's just another Zelda game. It's not bad, but later games in the series have surpassed it to the point where it's not worth playing today.

The reason Ys stands the test of time so much better is something that I cannot fully explain, but it has to do with being more than the sum of its parts, and almost every part is well crafted. Even though LttP has "better" gameplay, it feels like much more of a slog to play through today than Ys. There's something about Ys that just makes it stand apart even today.

Ys wins.

Even though I voted Zelda myself, yours was a very well argued point.   :D
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 01:27:00 AM by HardcoreOtaku »

spenoza

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These games are dissimilar enough that this is an apples to oranges comparison. I do enjoy LttP more, however. Still, a comparison like this doesn't do either game justice. If we're going to continue this "which is better!" trend, let's stick to games that are a little more apples to apples, lest we wander under bridges in search of trolls.
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BigusSchmuck

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These games are dissimilar enough that this is an apples to oranges comparison. I do enjoy LttP more, however. Still, a comparison like this doesn't do either game justice. If we're going to continue this "which is better!" trend, let's stick to games that are a little more apples to apples, lest we wander under bridges in search of trolls.
Right, like Guillver Boy vs Lunar The Silver Star. Might want to make a different thread for that. :)