HuCard vs. CD-ROM² (CD, SCD, ACD)

[Arkhan]

I go for HuCards because the chiptunes = <3

[lukester]

HuCards. Durable, make great shurikens, and have greats like Legendary Axe, Street Fighter II, Bomberman 93, 94,  Parasol Stars, Side Arms, Galaga 88, Bonk...

I could go on all day.

weren't you the one that owns only two CD games? how could you even judge the might power of CD-ROM²?

Hehehe. I own some of the best ones on the Wii.

But like I said, the Huey game library overall appeals to me more. I could never live without legendary axe or salamander.

Dracula X owns all though.

[roflmao]

I'm going with Hueys.  It was a tough call, and I'd be very sad to be without Star Parodia and Spriggan (among others), but there are so many awesome obey titles that can be played without a CD attachment *and on the go*!

Crush series.  Ninja Spirit.  Bombermans.  Neutopias.  Bonks.  Military Madness.  I could go on and on...

I'd hate to lose CD capability, but in the end I'd still be very happy with my hucards.  And I can play them in my Express.

[deubeul]

I wish they had released Shinobi on a CD, all the missing things make me cry each time i play this Proust madeleine.

So CDs!!

[TR0N]

CD for that redbook audio thank you very much 

[awack]

No doubt, CDROM2, like has been mentioned, in the real world your not going to get games like Winds of Thunder or Dracula X on cards or cartridges, there is just too much content/variation within each level(Dracula X, Winds of thunder) and each boss fight(Dracula X)..Hell, the pathetic half a meg CDrom2 produced some of the best games of the entire 16bit generation like Spriggan, arguably the best horizontal shooter of that time and there really isn't much of an argument against it.

[rtyper]

I'd go for huCard, if it was cheap(er) in comparison to CDs.
If what I've read is true regarding pcengine access to data on the huCards (and I don't know any better coz am le dumb) larger capacity would have meant no reason for CDRom2 anyway. (SFII)
Apart from fancy cinemas and redbook audio CDrom2 never added anything that couldn't have been done on a huCard, memory permitting - voila, le Arcade CDrom System Card.

HuCards weren't cheaper.

CD games have the kind of content you rarely or can't find in cart games for the time. Many games have greater variety and are designed differently because of different priorities/restrictions than cart games. They also have adpcm samples and streaming.

HuCards were limited bitd by the available rom sizes and pricier fast memory the PCE uses. It all fine and well to say that if 16-bit gen consoles were never replaced, that we might have a bank switched 1GB HuCard game today, but that goes into a fantasy realm which would also permit a 1GB System Card for "GIGA Card CD" games.

Even if HuCards could do everything CD games do except CD musuc, voice acting and adpcm  -that still makes them inferior.

No matter what, CD trumps HuCard.

Did you actually read my post or just skim over it, without understanding what I wrote?
I never said hucards were cheaper

I'd go for huCard, if it was cheap(er) in comparison to CDs

and my reference to the Arcade Card was that it is basically a high capacity huCard.

Red Book audio and low res video may be nice, but other than a few examples, CastlevaniaX, Thunder series, Ys series spring to mind, it rarely added anything other than bloated cutscenes and needless exposition. 99% of the CD games that used it was for the cheaper production costs.
It was introduced before the hardware could actually do something with it, similarly with the megaCD and other CD based consoles of the time.

Posted by Black Tiger

They also have adpcm samples and streaming

If FMV floats your boat then great, NEC obviously thought this was the way forward, resulting in the disasterous PC-FX.

StreetFighter 2 showed what could be produced using 'high capacity' hucards, which at 20Mbit wasn't that high as sega and nintendo produced higher capacity carts themselves without substantially increasing the retail prices. The push toward CD based games by NEC never resulted in overall higher quality (CD airzonk V hucard airzonk) but rather 'shifted' hardware, which was evident through the various redesigns of the CD units by the company.

[Necromancer]

rtyper: you're clearly ignorant of the PCE's library and a fool if you think the CD adds nothing but FMV.  But sometimes ignorance is bliss, eh?

[Mathius]

rtyper: you're clearly ignorant of the PCE's library and a fool if you think the CD adds nothing but FMV.  But sometimes ignorance is bliss, eh?

Agreed. The PC Engine CD-ROM was the only console from that time period that actually did something other than FMV. The power of the medium was allowed to shine. True there are a few games on the Sega/Mega CD that pushed the tech but that system has its reputation for a reason. As I always say the PC Engine was truly special.

[Tatsujin]

rtyper: you're clearly ignorant of the PCE's library and a fool if you think the CD adds nothing but FMV.  But sometimes ignorance is bliss, eh?

Agreed. The PC Engine CD-ROM was the only console from that time period that actually did something other than FMV. The power of the medium was allowed to shine. True there are a few games on the Sega/Mega CD that pushed the tech but that system has its reputation for a reason. As I always say the PC Engine was truly special.

as true as it just gets. I also would say that the PCE-CD system was the most FMV free CD based game system in existence of all ever released CD based systems.

and just look what most developer did still over 6 years after the PCE-CD was released? ever played jurassic park on the 3DNO? oh myyy!!

[rtyper]

rtyper: you're clearly ignorant of the PCE's library and a fool if you think the CD adds nothing but FMV.  But sometimes ignorance is bliss, eh?

(apologies for the poor ipod piccies)

" But sometimes ignorance is bliss, eh?"

Been collecting PCE goodies for almost 25yrs and that's the saddest statement I ever heard.
I think I have as much experience of the PCE library to speak about its strengths and weaknesses
don't you. 
The PCE did chance it's arm at FMV, probably with better results than the other '16 bit' consoles.
However, most cutscenes consisted of windowed pictures with a few overlaid sprites for the odd blinking eye or mouth, great for rpg games (as I said Ys) but adding little to the vast. vast majority of games. Padding out the gaming 'experience' and CD storage, adding perceived extra content to average games at best.
Considering, as I said, the ACD was just a high capacity hucard, most of these games would have
fitted quite comfortably on one (minus the obvious) essentially shovelware on a CD or in Super Raidens case 'the directors cut'.

[Black Tiger]

Thanks for adding $10 to my phone bill r-typer. Your achievements as a collector have proven your vast game playing experience. Even if your comments still show that you don't understand what is happening in PCE CD games.

Did you actually read your own comment or just skim over it? You phrased it as though you didn't know which was cheaper and that the answer would influence your choice.

rtyper: you're clearly ignorant of the PCE's library and a fool if you think the CD adds nothing but FMV.  But sometimes ignorance is bliss, eh?

Agreed. The PC Engine CD-ROM was the only console from that time period that actually did something other than FMV. The power of the medium was allowed to shine. True there are a few games on the Sega/Mega CD that pushed the tech but that system has its reputation for a reason. As I always say the PC Engine was truly special.

Only 18% of the Sega-CD library can be considered "fmv games" and they pretty much all have the same gameplay as traditional games which don't incorporate fmv. The Sega-CD library makes as good use of the medium as the PCE CD library does. Many games also make good use of the Sega-CD hardware's other abilities, but that's a separate issue.

The reason the Sega-CD has a reputation for having nothing but terrible fmv games is because of journalists and casual retro gamers who get all their knowledge from youtube videos/comments and terrible mainstream sites with stuff like retronauts. They pretty much take the fact that someone is commenting on old games as credentials that they're an expert. This is why we're fast approaching the popular consensus that the pre-Playstation history of video games consisted of Atari -> NES -> SNES.

What sucks is once a myth is cemented, it discourages people in general from seriously looking into the libraries of unpopular libraries like Sega-CD and PC Engine, where they would have quickly discovered the truth. This is why most people who have even heard of the PCE believe that it is just an NES with RGB color.

The Sega-CD has one of the highest good>bad game ratios of any library. There are so many great exclusives to check out.

[rtyper]

So, what don't I understand?
It's a storage medium, The cd allows up to 650MB or 5200Mbit. So it's cheaper for storage.
It dumps data down to a storage area that is accessed by the pce.
Depending on the size of that storage area (cd/scd/acd) extra animation via either sprites or tiles to enable pseudo parallax scrolling, larger sprite animations etc. It also uses a cd 'interface' memory buffer to play adpcm (?) sound samples, which can also be used to store gfx. Playing redbook audio also frees up cpu usage which also enables better/faster programming techiques.

In my experience, when I purchased 90% of that stuff new the prices were identical.
I preferred cds for the redbook audio, but realised that the games were for the most part pretty shallow, certainly not deserving of a cd release, padding out the cd gaming library really.
I like the fact that Streetfighter2 is (in my opinion) the best home version and it's on a hucard. So I would prefer hucards over cd now if getting the same quality as the scd/acd were possible but it would be too expensive.  (neo-geo cart V neo-geo cd).

I agree regarding the segaCD. (deffo worth picking up one if you can)
My collection contains 1 FMV game and that came in a bundle that I got off a work collegue. (Road Avenger)
there are some very good exclusive titles on the system.
sonic cd / ninja warriors / final fight / bari arm / keio flying squadron / robo aleste / flink / soul star / batman returns spring to mind. I think it was the perceived notion that FMV was going to be the next big thing and games leaned in that direction but the hardware was limited.
On todays hardware (360 up) they can create open worlds that enable gameplay and the almost photo realism is just an extention of that. You interact with real people rather than a random spooled video clip.

[Necromancer]

Simply owning something doesn't mean you know anything about it.  Either you're ignorant about what's in those games or you're just plain stupid.

Let's dissect your dipshittery for teh lulz:

Did you actually read my post or just skim over it, without understanding what I wrote?
I never said hucards were cheaper

I'd go for huCard, if it was cheap(er) in comparison to CDs

Then what did you mean?  HuCARDs were never cheaper to make, period.  The hardware to play CDs was more expensive, but there's nothing in your statement about hardware.

... and my reference to the Arcade Card was that it is basically a high capacity huCard.

Kinda, except no HuCARD had redbook audio or ADPCM.  You knew that, right?

Red Book audio and low res video may be nice, but other than a few examples, CastlevaniaX, Thunder series, Ys series spring to mind, it rarely added anything other than bloated cutscenes and needless exposition.

So you actually believe that the vast majority of games have shitty redbook tunes, that almost all cutscenes suck, and that voice work has no place in games?  The short bus is here to pick you up.

99% of the CD games that used it was for the cheaper production costs.  It was introduced before the hardware could actually do something with it, similarly with the megaCD and other CD based consoles of the time.

Of course it was a cheaper storage medium, but so what?  Without the cheap storage space, those CD titles either wouldn't exist at all or would lose all the lengthy and well animated cutscenes, FMV, extensive voice work, and/or cd quality music.  It sure sounds to me like they "did something with it".

Posted by Black Tiger

They also have adpcm samples and streaming

If FMV floats your boat then great, NEC obviously thought this was the way forward, resulting in the disasterous PC-FX.

Streaming and ADPCM are useful for more than FMV, you dimbulb.

StreetFighter 2 showed what could be produced using 'high capacity' hucards, which at 20Mbit wasn't that high as sega and nintendo produced higher capacity carts themselves without substantially increasing the retail prices.

SF2 was ¥9800 at launch, which was roughly 50% more than other HuCARDs released around the same time; a similar tale can be told about Star Ocean, Tales of Phantasia, etc.  Due to the smaller components used, a HuCARD was likely more expensive to make than a comparably sized SF/MD cart, but that's hardly relevant and doesn't change the fact that making giant carts was prohibitively expensive.

The push toward CD based games by NEC never resulted in overall higher quality (CD airzonk V hucard airzonk)....

Go look at the Neo Geo ports on all three systems, then come back and try to say with a straight face that the PCE versions are inferior to the SF/MD ones and would've been better on a smaller HuCARD. 

.... but rather 'shifted' hardware, which was evident through the various redesigns of the CD units by the company.

I don't even know what kind of point you're trying to make here.

[rtyper]

hahahahahaha,
more saddest statements, must have hit a nerve.