HuCard vs. CD-ROM² (CD, SCD, ACD)

[awack]

The super air zonk(scd) vs air zonk(hucard) is a perfect example of the superiority of the super cd format, take the 1st level, super air zonk has far more variety in Background tiles and sprite frames, air zonk sprites for the 1st level are pretty much un animated were in super air zonk they are well animated...but only one or two places have parallax scrolling and is considered not as fun as the original zonk, goes to show that the superior format isn't always the better game, of course in theory, you could make a hu card big enough to fit super air zonk in it and that is the main strength of cd technology, cheap memory.

[Necromancer]

hahahahahaha,
more saddest statements, must have hit a nerve.

Not at all.  What's sad is you have nothing to back up your argument.  Nothing.

[Arkhan]

hahahahahaha,
more saddest statements, must have hit a nerve.

You didn't hit a nerve, you're just making really stupid statements about the CD Library, thus demonstrating you haven't really experienced the library.

It adds more storage, CD audio, ADPCM sampling with ease...  it's not like it's going to add 3D quality crap like you probably expected.


Shadow of the Beast is a good example of a CD game.  It surpasses the Amiga original in terms of gameplay and sound.

Might and Magic 3 is another good one.

It allowed for stuff that would normally take a handful of floppies or *gasp* a CD Rom on PC.

[Bonknuts]

CDROM format for me. A lot of hucard sizes were small-ish. They grew in size as time went on, but so did carts on the SNES and Genesis (and at a larger size than hucards too). Hucards had more potential than what they put out, but so did CD format as well. There are quite a few games in both formats for the system, that weren't utilized very well.

 Back at the time, CD/Red Book audio was incredible. It was also awesome to have streaming dialogue. It helped immerse the story and characters. Even just simple streaming ADPCM in game without cinemas, was big welcome addition to games. I wished more games had used it (it had a decent compression ratio too; you could fit a lot of it on CD. A lot more than regular Red Book).

 I never thought once, "I wish they would have stuck to the hucard format". They could have easily put the first Zonk game on CD without cutting back anything. If anything, they could have expanded on the game. I kinda wish they would have done more remix hucard games, later on - on CD.

 Nowadays, everything is about "retro" charm. Hucards are charming. But back then, CD format was the way to go.

[Mathius]

Thanks for adding $10 to my phone bill r-typer. Your achievements as a collector have proven your vast game playing experience. Even if your comments still show that you don't understand what is happening in PCE CD games.

Did you actually read your own comment or just skim over it? You phrased it as though you didn't know which was cheaper and that the answer would influence your choice.

rtyper: you're clearly ignorant of the PCE's library and a fool if you think the CD adds nothing but FMV.  But sometimes ignorance is bliss, eh?

Agreed. The PC Engine CD-ROM was the only console from that time period that actually did something other than FMV. The power of the medium was allowed to shine. True there are a few games on the Sega/Mega CD that pushed the tech but that system has its reputation for a reason. As I always say the PC Engine was truly special.

Only 18% of the Sega-CD library can be considered "fmv games" and they pretty much all have the same gameplay as traditional games which don't incorporate fmv. The Sega-CD library makes as good use of the medium as the PCE CD library does. Many games also make good use of the Sega-CD hardware's other abilities, but that's a separate issue.

The reason the Sega-CD has a reputation for having nothing but terrible fmv games is because of journalists and casual retro gamers who get all their knowledge from youtube videos/comments and terrible mainstream sites with stuff like retronauts. They pretty much take the fact that someone is commenting on old games as credentials that they're an expert. This is why we're fast approaching the popular consensus that the pre-Playstation history of video games consisted of Atari -> NES -> SNES.

What sucks is once a myth is cemented, it discourages people in general from seriously looking into the libraries of unpopular libraries like Sega-CD and PC Engine, where they would have quickly discovered the truth. This is why most people who have even heard of the PCE believe that it is just an NES with RGB color.

The Sega-CD has one of the highest good>bad game ratios of any library. There are so many great exclusives to check out.

Don't get me wrong, BT. I love my Sega CD. I got a model 1 for Christmas the first year they were released in NA and enjoyed it very much. My opinion of the system is from personal experience, and the press at that time were not highlighting much beyond the FMV games. Even though the actual good games on the system were stellar I just didn't know about them back then. Wish I did.

I would argue that the press at the time has more to do with the system's reputation than today's internet based journalism.

[Tatsujin]

games that sure weren't the same without le CD-ROM²™®:

basically every single RPG that left a software house on CD instead of a huey :!:

[johnnykonami]

From a collector's point of view, Hu-Cards seem a little more desirable in terms of lasting a little longer than CD formats, as I've already heard stories of bit-rot with Saturn discs and other disc based consoles.  Anyone had any issues with their PCE/TG discs?  I haven't popped mine in in years, I hope they're still doing good.

Conversely, some of my very favorite games are CD based, so from a gameplay/music perspective they certainly have an edge.  Lots of great Hu-Cards too, though.

[Tatsujin]

so far I have encountered more hueys that refuse to work (even using every trick known to obey kind) than CDs.

[esteban]

You dipwads got sidetracked with rtyper. STOP IT.

GET BACK ON TRACK:

HuCards for the portability option when played on a Express/GT.  I was amazed in the 90s when I first found out about the Turbo Express and how its able to play the same console HuCard games on the go. 

I think csgx1 brings up one of the strongest cases for the HuCARD: the fact that it made console <--> handheld transition smoothly. GRANTED, it would have been better if the GT/TE (and the consoles, goddammit) had built-in RAM backup for saves (oops! I just identified a weakness of the HuCARD library...relatively low support for saving games vs. CD titles).


FANTASY:
CD3² would have been awesome (limited capacity) CD-ROM. I'm surprised Hudson's engineers didn't purposefully cripple developers by pushing CD-ROMANTIC 3"², with its 24 K data storage and 2 minutes of Redbook. Yes, the MiniCD format. I want Old_Rover to create a project for CD3²


CONSIDER:
It's tough to choose CD as the unequivocal champion when we have EVIDENCE to the contrary...
Super Air Zonk sucks Air Zonk's scrotum
Daisenpu Custom sucks HuCARD's scrotard
Doraemon CD sucks HuCARD's scrotch

Of course, I'm just goofing around. I realize that the three examples I listed above were the product of weak/lame development...

...so the only way to critique CD-ROM is to point out that it required a substantial investment from customers back in the day. It was not accessible to as many people... CD-ROM hardware and software commanded premium prices, even though the software could have been priced cheaper (on par with cartridges).

Of course, I'm just trying to play the Devil's Advocate since CD-ROM is winning by a landslide. Where's the fun in a landslide if someone doesn't support the underdog?

BOTTOM LINE:
HuCARD allowed seamless handheld <-> console action (friggin' awesome). That's the best defense for the HuCARD against the mighty CD-ROM.



Still, I loves me some ROM ROM.

[Mathius]

I could argue that Hu Cards win out because of those sweet sweet PC Engine chiptunes. Alas, the CD-ROM ROM "Does...The...BUZZ" as well.

[Arkhan]

Nowadays, everything is about "retro" charm. Hucards are charming. But back then, CD format was the way to go.

Even back then when I was little, I found a lot of games had corny CD music that doesn't seem to fit the game as well.   Especially arcadey games, or arcade ports.  The chippy music just kind of works right with the graphics.  Alot of times, there ends up being this disjointed feeling with the music.  Kind of like crappy Amiga games.

RPGs are the biggest exception.  Those games look/sound great with CD audio.

I actually like when the games on CD resort to chiptunes as much as possible though. 

[toymachine78]

IMHO Sega CD is a turd in the punch bowl. The genesis was just fine without getting the shocker from the CD and 32X units.

[Black Tiger]

IMHO Sega CD is a turd in the punch bowl. The genesis was just fine without getting the shocker from the CD and 32X units.

Kinda like how the PCE would have been just fine without HuCARD games?

[toymachine78]

No, I like HuCard and Turbo CD games equally. I play more cards though, but ownly because I own more.

To me the TGCD offers more higher quality games than the Sega CD does. I sold my Sega CD for that reason. Now granted, I did not experience a lot of the collection, but I didn't have much fun playing what I did own, and didn't want to risk investing any more money in the games. Afterall I could use that money to buy TG16, SNES, or Genny games that are more fun, cheaper, and there are many more titles to choose from.

[Black Tiger]

No, I like HuCard and Turbo CD games equally. I play more cards though, but ownly because I own more.

To me the TGCD offers more higher quality games than the Sega CD does. I sold my Sega CD for that reason. Now granted, I did not experience a lot of the collection, but I didn't have much fun playing what I did own, and didn't want to risk investing any more money in the games. Afterall I could use that money to buy TG16, SNES, or Genny games that are more fun, cheaper, and there are many more titles to choose from.

I'm not a fan of the SNES for the same reason. After buying Shaq-Fu, Race Drivin, Pit Fighter, Bebe's Kids, Mario's Early Years: Fun with Letters, Rise of The Robots, RapJam: Volume One and a string of other duds, I sold my collection for what I could and bought some quality Genesis titles like Barney's Hide N' Seek, Shaq Fu, Sword of Sodan, Technocop, Barbie: Super Model, Double Dragon II, Slaughter Sport, and Strider Returns. Plus Falcon, Gunboat, Tailspin, Night Creatures, Ballistix, Jack Nicklaus Turbo Golf, for the TurboGrafx-16

I was smart enough to avid the Sega-CD altogether, lest I get stuck with turds like Lunar SS, Lunar EB, Popful Mail, Shining Force CD, AD&D EotB, Dungeon Master II, Dark Wizard, Dune, Vay, Dungeon Explorer, Lords of Thunder, Snatcher, The Space Adventure, Rise of the Dragon, Final Fight CD, Keio Flying Squadron, Sonic CD, Ecco CD, Earthworm Jim SCD, Android Assault, Robo Aleste, Silpheed, Sol Feace, Battle Corps, Soul Star, Flashback, Heart of the Alien, Secret of Monkey Island, Mickey Mania, etc.