Author Topic: Rondo of Blood Thread  (Read 6088 times)

Black Tiger

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2014, 02:06:07 PM »
I kinda agree with BT here, but having hardware capable of doing s/r does seem pretty cool. 

What about Star Parodier?  After you beat a boss, a lot of times they zoom into the screen.  Is that proper hardware scaling (as I always imagined it to be) or is that pre-rendered sprites?  Howabout the Gates of Thunder disc?  They are definitely showing off scaling and rotation when you start it up.  Is that all pre-rendered?  I honestly don't know and am now curious. :)

The post-stage pics from Star Parodia use a scaling effect nicknamed "mosaic". New Adventure Island and Cosmic Fantasy 4 also do full screen mosaic effects.

Hardware effects are neat, but looking at what happened with the SFC, I think that the creativity shown in PCE games would have been stifled and we wouldn't have wound up with the unique library that we love.

Same with Neo Geo. It wouldn't be the same if it could do 3D and other effects besides sprite shrinking. Just look at the Hyper Neo Geo 64. Would you rather have more of that or the art-heavy kind of content we got with the regular Neo Geo?

It's bad enough that too many PCE games feature pixelization as an effect as it is.
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awack

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2014, 10:25:23 PM »
Hardware scaling like in snes games would have  ruined rondo of blood, a lot of  snes scaling looks like pixilated pieces of paper coming closer or moving away from the screen there is no change in color or detail and it gets more and more pixilated as it draws closer to the screen, if you look at sapphire the game was able to redraw each frame and recolor as an object got closer to the screen, so aesthetically it looks much better than most snes type scaling, though not as smooth of course.

here are some scaling, rotation and spinning that's found in rondo, most of this stuff was dropped all together in Dracula xx, or downgraded with less frames due to not enough memory, if you look at the cyths with16 frames those are all unique frames which is why it looks so good in game.



Tatsujin

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2014, 01:09:20 AM »
100% trueness!!

I rememer the first time playing drac x when the 1st level dragon all sudden super scary stylish animatezoomed from the back ground into the screen accompanied with that creepy dragon scream/noise. now that was a scare I have yet to experience on any other 16-bit platforms!!

a cheap mode-7 zoom instead like used in so many snes games would have ruined that scene totally!!
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bob

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2014, 02:04:28 AM »
What about the zoom/scale when picking a game on the GOT 3 in 1. Comin' at ya!

lukester

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2014, 02:41:09 AM »

Hardware effects are neat, but looking at what happened with the SFC, I think that the creativity shown in PCE games would have been stifled and we wouldn't have wound up with the unique library that we love.

I understand this statement, and there were certainly instances like this. Super ghouls n ghosts was not as good as ghouls n ghosts genesis, and effects made it even harder to play.

However, better hardware effects/chips also help with a game.

Yoshi's island is a great example. The super fx chip and other effects help to bring the warm, colorful world really to life.

Star fox has 3d that hasn't aged well, but there were many exciting level designs possible because of it. Entering the enemy tunnel and shooting the core in stage 3 is an epic moment with great buildup.

Heck, f-zero plays rather well still thanks to mode 7. Mode 7 was abused for title screens, but really made racing games more fun and fluid.

Not all snes games were stifled. Some cases, the effects embraced the creativity.

Tatsujin

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2014, 02:57:24 AM »
Mode 7 was abused for title screens, but really made racing games more fun and fluid.


but also flatter than ever before.
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Black Tiger

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2014, 03:43:51 AM »

Hardware effects are neat, but looking at what happened with the SFC, I think that the creativity shown in PCE games would have been stifled and we wouldn't have wound up with the unique library that we love.


I understand this statement, and there were certainly instances like this. Super ghouls n ghosts was not as good as ghouls n ghosts genesis, and effects made it even harder to play.

However, better hardware effects/chips also help with a game.

Yoshi's island is a great example. The super fx chip and other effects help to bring the warm, colorful world really to life.

Star fox has 3d that hasn't aged well, but there were many exciting level designs possible because of it. Entering the enemy tunnel and shooting the core in stage 3 is an epic moment with great buildup.

Heck, f-zero plays rather well still thanks to mode 7. Mode 7 was abused for title screens, but really made racing games more fun and fluid.

Not all snes games were stifled. Some cases, the effects embraced the creativity.


You can slap external processors onto a HuCard the same as games like Yoshi's Island, Star Fox, Super Mario Kart, Pilot Wings etc require for the SNES to run them. Star Fox doesn't use Mode 7 at all for its 3D, so it isn't an example of built-in hardware making games better (and the Genesis has more polygonal games rendered purely by cpu power). I've also heard tech savvy people say that Yoshi's Island doesn't bother using SNES hardware for its scaling and rotation either.

Yoshi's Island, really is a great example of the point I am making. The SFX2 chip is 7 - 10 times faster than the SNES cpu and combined with the amazing SNES hardware effects, it was used as filler in place of animation. The bosses in Yoshi's Island almost all feature an unprecedented ONE frame of animation, while a few of them feature as many as two or perhaps even three frames! :shock: But thanks to Mode F(iller), those static images swirl, rotate and pixelate to give the illusion of movement without any additional artwork. They also mostly consist of round outlines with a couple dots as the artwork for the single static frame.


The SNES/SFX2 chip effects aren't actually responsible for the warmth or color of that game world. That's the artwork side, which the reliance on special effects waters down in memory-starved SNES cart games.


I said in my previous post that F-Zero style gameplay is the one great thing that Mode 7 (+ misc effects) provided. It wasn't worthwhile enough for developers to continue using in the 32-bit generation, but it was a new and unique gameplay experience when it wasn't also used as filler in games like FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, etc.
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lukester

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2014, 03:58:29 AM »
How good is snes at big sprites compared to pce? Even hucards like liquid kids have some massive and very mobile bosses.

Nando

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2014, 07:25:17 AM »
HAH! Yoshi's bosses are animated by Flash! lol

I've never played this game so that was an interesting surprise. The game has some superb art direction, I'll give it that and I've heard it's a great platformer.

Lame bit about the bosses.


_joshuaTurbo

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2014, 08:36:03 AM »
This joke was already attempted.


Yet neither were funny.  You can joke about alot of things here at PCFX, but saying Rondo is an overrated or terrible game gets you put in the f*cking SNERD closet for life.

Rondo for SCD usually gets ranked in my top 3 PCE/Turbo games and easily in my top 10 favorites of all times for all consoles.


Trollololol

Anyone who doesn't think Rondo is an incredible game needs admitted to a mental ward.  Of course it's awesome.  It's still one of the best, if the THE best, of the Castlevania games ever made... duh.



Black Tiger

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2014, 08:44:04 AM »
How good is snes at big sprites compared to pce? Even hucards like liquid kids have some massive and very mobile bosses.


The SNES could perhaps do more than PCE for huge sprites and I mean real actual sprites, not one big character rendered with a tile layer. But it would have to be only big stuff, like two giant Bonks from Bonk 3... and nothing else. It can only use 2 different sprite sizes, which bottlenecks development for types of games with a variety of sprites sizes.

This is a highly optimized SNES fighter which relies on all the player sprites being the same size:



But when you're dealing with a variety of player, projectile, effect, etc sprite sizes, it really brings down what the SNES can display compared to PCE or MD:

















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Nando

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2014, 08:52:23 AM »
BT - How do I download all your gaming knowledge to my brain? LOL  either that or point me to some dang resources.  ;)


lukester

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2014, 09:53:45 AM »
HAH! Yoshi's bosses are animated by Flash! lol

I've never played this game so that was an interesting surprise. The game has some superb art direction, I'll give it that and I've heard it's a great platformer.

Lame bit about the bosses.



Yoshi is one of the defining games of the 16-bit gen.

However, I have not played it in years due to it's massive length and playing it all the time on my game boy advance.

I do have a snes copy, I may start it again after beating gears of war and mizubaku daibouken. :)

Tatsujin

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2014, 11:30:49 AM »
it's strange, I could really never got into yoshi's island. I love SMW, but I can't play yoshi's island.
for me it's just way to annoying and honestly its art style doesnt't appeal to me at all.
it sure isn't a bad game or looks anything bad (technically) I guess, but it's kinda just very far away of the type of games I like. and I tried it many times, just couldn't provide me any fun.
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lukester

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Re: Rondo of Blood Thread
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2014, 12:22:48 PM »
it's strange, I could really never got into yoshi's island. I love SMW, but I can't play yoshi's island.
for me it's just way to annoying and honestly its art style doesnt't appeal to me at all.
it sure isn't a bad game or looks anything bad (technically) I guess, but it's kinda just very far away of the type of games I like. and I tried it many times, just couldn't provide me any fun.

Is it Baby Mario that is the turnoff? That's kinda silly. Though it sucks when you are trying to gain all 30/10 stars for completion and then you get knocked down to the standard 10/10 timer.

But yeah, Yoshi's Island is a very different playing type of platformer. Very long levels, a buttload of them, and you do them at your own pace. Lots of secrets and fun to be found though. :)

I still remember the music to this day.

And don't let boss battles be a turnoff. In fact, every single one is completely unique and magnificent.

Here is the Ralphael the Raven fight.