Author Topic: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?  (Read 681 times)

lukester

  • Guest
Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« on: January 25, 2014, 06:20:44 AM »
I've kind of always wondered this.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of beautiful Hueys. Especially IREM and Hudsons' games, they always looked super nice. But, it wasn't until near the end of the system's life that it got a standard 8 meg count.

Shame too, as Bomberman 94 was an 8 meg, and easily one of the best looking games of the 16-bit gen.

I'm not talking about CDs. They were bigger, sure, but a lot of the memory was for music.

I mean, games could have only been improved. Splatterhouse may have even had the gory background details from the arcade, instead of being barren.

Were HuCards cheaper than Carts? Or was it more than that.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 06:45:09 AM »
They use high speed memory that was expensive.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

Bonknuts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3292
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2014, 06:47:17 AM »
I'm leaning more towards NEC pricing range for developers. Sure, the PCBs are thin and the roms tend to be blobs instead of chips, and there's a hucard plastic card instead of a case, but once you setup all tools and such to manufacture this stuff - hucards aren't any more expensive than carts.

 I would say two things, pricing from NEC for larger roms. And the CDROM itself. What's the best way to make the CDROM system shine? Make sure the gap between the games, is enough of a difference warrant the purchase of the addon. There's an audio in line on the hucard port, yet no hucard game uses it. Why didn't we see audio upgrades for hucards? Because that brings the difference between hucards and CDROMs games, that much smaller in difference for audio. The Megadrive/Genesis is the has the same situation; has stereo audio in lines for the cart - but never upgraded the audio via cart - even when the sound of the system started to show its age against the SNES/SFC. MegaCD/SegaCD. That was your audio upgrade. Anything you do on the cart side, starts to negate that audio difference.

 Addon chips aren't as expensive as you think. Nintendo actually added DSPs to SNES carts that did nothing more than decompress data. That chip was cheaper than simply throwing more rom at it.

 There's an article that refers to the PCE as the 'core' system (before the 'core grafx' system even came out). The CD system already was in development when the original PCE launched. From a marketing stand point, I would want the CD addon to be as a big of a jump as possible to regular hucards. Limiting hucard sizes, is one way to mitigate this.

 Part of the reason, at least for the first year, might be been that they didn't have the tooling setup for larger roms yet (remember, these are glop top - not just simple dip mask roms). But that doesn't explain why sizes remained smaller after the first year. I'm putting my money on the CDROM addon as the culprit.

Bonknuts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3292
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2014, 06:51:35 AM »
They use high speed memory that was expensive.


 The PCE system can access slower rom. The 1.79mhz mode of the CPU is specifically for accessing slow devices on the address bus. They could have easily mixed slow and fast rom. Slow rom for tiles and sprites, to be loaded into vram at the start of the stage (which is what almost ALL hucard did, because of the limited ram to buffer any such things).

Tatsujin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12311
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2014, 12:49:59 PM »
but it's funny that daisenpu and dorabian actually looking better on le huey than on le cd :)
www.pcedaisakusen.net
the home of your individual PC Engine collection!!
PCE Games coundown: 690/737 (47 to go or 93.6% clear)
PCE Shmups countdown: 111/111 (all clear!!)
Sega does what Nintendon't, but only NEC does better than both together!^^

Xak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 720
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 04:40:42 AM »
imagine a little car on turbo
Im a real life Sadler, just take me to the nearest item shop.

I have aspergers, and am a recovering Tonicholic

Necromancer

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21365
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 02:27:43 AM »
I'd say it's about timing and costs (especially later).  You didn't see 8 and 16 megapowa games from Genny in that time frame either; and by the time the bigger sizes were common (and the SNES was out), it made more sense to put games on cheap CDs.
U.S. Collection: 97% complete    155/159 titles

pulstar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 04:27:45 AM »
Storage was expensive back in the earlier days and by the time the megabit per £/$/ ¥ came down the CD-ROM attachment was out and the space vs. cost on a CD-ROM was way more efficient than ROMs.
My favourite pigeon had a fatal run-in with a cloud...

awack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 692
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 06:29:32 PM »
Yeah, its a shame that almost every hucard game is 2, 3 or 4 megs...here are some of the larger games.

Bonk 3(8megs)
Raiden(6megs) i think.
Parodius(8megs)
Bomberman 94(8megs)
Streetfighter 2 (20megs)
i believe there is at least one 8meg sports game, and of course Aldyness, GNG, and 1941 were all 8megs...which in my opinion counts, its still the pc engine, how do i know this because it says it right there on the console, it can play all standard games and use the add ons and such, it just has extra chips, its a pcengine just as much as star fox is a snes game.

lukester

  • Guest
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2014, 06:25:57 AM »
Hana tala Dakar and Darius are both 6 meg.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 06:57:01 AM »
Neutopia II: 6 megs
Power League 5: 6 megs
Power League '93: 6 megs
Fire Pro Wrestling 3: 8 megs
Super Momo Taru Densetsu II: 6 megs
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

Bonknuts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3292
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2014, 11:46:51 AM »
Twin Bee is 6megs, even though the rom dump shows 8megs.

Bonknuts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3292
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2014, 11:48:37 AM »
Yeah, its a shame that almost every hucard game is 2, 3 or 4 megs...here are some of the larger games.

Bonk 3(8megs)
Raiden(6megs) i think.
Parodius(8megs)
Bomberman 94(8megs)
Streetfighter 2 (20megs)
i believe there is at least one 8meg sports game, and of course Aldyness, GNG, and 1941 were all 8megs...which in my opinion counts, its still the pc engine, how do i know this because it says it right there on the console, it can play all standard games and use the add ons and such, it just has extra chips, its a pcengine just as much as star fox is a snes game.

 I used to think of it as a different console, but yeah says right on it "PC-Engine SuperGrafx". It might be an upgraded PC-Engine, but it's still a PC-Engine.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2014, 01:50:31 PM »
Twin Bee is 6megs, even though the rom dump shows 8megs.

I was going to say that I was surprised when I found out it was only 4 megs (on pcecp). :P
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

lukester

  • Guest
Re: Why do HuCards have low Meg counts?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2014, 03:11:38 AM »
In all honesty, Parodius should have been a Super CD. As an 8 meg, it's impressive. But apart from a fantastic special stage, pales in comparison to the SNES version in all aspects.