Author Topic: Populous  (Read 1241 times)

Digi.k

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« on: April 22, 2006, 12:39:21 AM »
I love populous and this is the 2nd time I've got the HUcard again...  

I got one problem.. how do you save??? As this was something I couldn't figure out how to do the first time I had this since I've never played the original PC version or any other versions and I still can't figure out how to save today....
 
Populous is perhaps the only HUcard that has back up ram right ??

The comic strip styled manual is awesome but it don't tell you how to save your progress in there either >___<

esteban

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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2006, 05:34:20 AM »
You can save on the HuCard itself, plus I'm pretty sure you can save files via Tennokoe Bank 2, Booster or, if you have a CD, the built-in RAM. I'd have to go hunting through many boxes to find my copy, but I just wanted to tell you that you can save. HOWEVER, if the battery has failed, then you can go through all of the proper steps (it might even register as "Saved"), but when you turn the console off, your file will be gone. This has happened to me with Gameboy carts whose batteries no longer work -- there is no way to test the battery until you actually turn off the system.  

Anyway, I actually spent all my time playing the PC version of Populous, back in the day, and I didn't know about the PCE versions till a few years ago. I still want to get the CD version of the game! Hopefully, it will be cheap.

While we are on the subject, I thought I'd share a little excerpt from some of the stuff I've been writing. If there are any errors, or confusing parts, please tell me! For example, I know I have to update some of the info on the CD version of Populous (Black_Tiger, I think, recently mentioned that there is a Bomberman-themed bonus level in it, IIRC)

Quote from: "Work in Progress"
VOICES FROM HEAVEN & ROMRAM HuCARDS
Ten No Koe Bank was another "oddity" profiled by Mr. Ireland in this issue. In modern parlance, Ten No Koe Bank is an 8K RAM "memory card" for backing up save files from the console's internal memory. The PCE CD-ROM peripheral contained 2K RAM internally (as did the later DUO console). Believe it or not, prior to the Ten No Koe Bank, players had no means of backing-up their save files. Once the 2K of RAM was filled, folks were forced to permanently delete existing files in order to make room for newer games. While the thought of deleting your high scores for Wonderboy III: Monster Lair might not have been too upsetting, the prospect of erasing your save files for Ys Book I & II would have been downright heart-wrenching. Now you could avoid the heartache:

"Ten No Koe means "voice from heaven," and this card is truly heaven-sent for PC-Engine CD owners ... This battery-backed HuCard (the first) contains 8K of RAM, allowing the user to store the entire 2K of backup RAM in one of four "boxes" on the card. The card allows you to store, retrieve or swap data between the CD unit and the card. This is also an excellent way to transport saved game locations to a friend's CD unit without bringing over your whole system."

In the excerpt above, Mr. Ireland states that Ten No Koe Bank (released on 09.06.1991) was the first HuCard to feature battery back-up (Hudson referred to this as a "ROMRAM HuCARD"). He was mistaken: Populous -- which appeared five months earlier on 04.05.1991 -- was in fact the first ROMRAM HuCARD. Populous contained a lithium battery for storing files directly on the HuCard itself.  (EDIT: ... but files could also be stored the traditional way -- via the console's 2K internal RAM -- if it was available... this is confusing since I haven't discussed boosters yet, hmmmm.... ).

As it turns out, Ten No Koe Bank was the second -- and ultimately the final -- ROMRAM HuCARD ever to be released. It is not known how long the lithium batteries used in the ROMRAM HuCARDs will remain viable, but here we are, 15 years later, and they seem to be functioning as well as ever. When these batteries do fail, it will be interesting to see if they can be replaced without damaging the HuCard itself.

TRIVIA: Since Ten No Koe Bank is a file management utility, Populous bears the unique distinction of being the only HuCard game to ever feature battery back-up. Also, on 10.25.1991 Hudson released Populous: The Promised Lands (CD) -- an expanded follow-up to the Populous HuCard which offered five new worlds to conquer.

ABOUT POPULOUS
Originally an Amiga game (though soon released on Atari ST and IBM PC platforms), Populous (1989) was a huge commercial success and prompted Bullfrog (developer) and Electronic Arts (distributor) to release two expansion disks (also known as "data disks") with additional worlds to conquer. The first expansion disk -- The Promised Lands -- offered five new worlds: Silly World (populated by slimy green blobs), Blockland (any resemblance to Lego Land is purely coincidental), Wild West (yes, the American west theme, replete with "cowboys and indians"), Revolution Francaise (think "Versailles"), and finally the Bit Plains (a computer nerd's wasteland of coffee cups, cigarette butts and computer hardware). I am assuming that the PCE CD version of Populous includes these five additional worlds. The second expansion disk -- The Final Frontier -- offered only one new world (Crystal Land).


SAVE FILES & TURBOBOOSTERS
Now, PCE consoles, by themselves, did not have internal RAM for storing files, but this feature could be added by attaching optional hardware to PCE's rear expansion port. Essentially, this mimicked the 2K of internal RAM that owners of the CD-ROM unit enjoyed. You see, although save files were initially designed for CD format games, software developers soon began creating HuCard format games that supported save files. For folks who were unable (or unwilling) to splurge on a pricey PCE CD-ROM system, NEC's Booster and Hudson's Ten No Koe Bank 2 attached to the back of the of a PCE console to provide backup RAM for HuCard save files.

NEC's Booster came in two models: BB1 and BB2. BB1 included composite A/V output and was designed for owners of the original white PC-Engine (to upgrade the RF output). BB2 omitted this A/V output, since it was designed for owners of the later CoreGrafx I / II models (which already had A/V output). Like NEC's BB2 model, Hudson's Ten No Koe Bank 2 also lacked A/V jacks.

Although it wasn't mentioned in the article, Ten No Koe Bank could be used with all of the aforementioned devices. This meant that, theoretically, you could transfer save files from CD games onto a basic PCE console. There would be no reason for doing this, of course, but it illustrates the breadth and flexibility of the file management system. In short, Ten No Koe Bank was compatible with a wide range of products, and not simply the CD-ROM (and the later Super CD-ROM) hardware.

The only products to make it to North America were revised versions of NEC's BB1 hardware. The TurboBooster attached to TG-16's expansion port and provided composite A/V output. The more expensive TurboBooster Plus also included 2K of internal RAM for HuCard save files. At the time, there weren't many HuCard games that supported save files, so when NEC marketed these products, the emphasis was on upgrading TG-16's RF output to composite A/V jacks.
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akamichi

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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2006, 05:55:45 AM »
Quote from: "stevek666"
While we are on the subject, I thought I'd share a little excerpt from some of the stuff I've been writing. If there are any errors, or confusing parts, please tell me!


Cool stuff Steve.  Lots of good info in there.  Just for completeness, I suppose you could mention the Memory Base 128 and Save-kun.  Interesting devices, but they aren't as flexible as the Boosters/Ten no Koe imo.

Digi.k

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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2006, 06:52:09 AM »
good stuff there.

I got a memory base 128 which I bought sometime last year but that too don't seem to work with populous HuCARD either.  and I can't get a back up unit yet as I'm using an A/V booster at the back since my PCE is still RF and I'm on a island that broadcasts in PAL signals.

Yea there's an image in the manual to say its ok to save to the ten no koe..

I'm pretty sure theres a way to save to the ROMRAM HUcard too its just I 've never been able to figure it out how (even when I bought this brand new back in 1990)... O_O;



I'm sure the save and load option should appear in this menu in that space under the "game options" but sadly nothings there.....

and I'm also pretty sure the batteries are ok since most Ten no koe bank's are still in use right ?

sunteam_paul

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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2006, 09:57:49 AM »
I'd guess the save option would be after you complete a level i.e. when you get a password if I remember.
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esteban

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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2006, 12:34:51 PM »
Quote from: "akamichi"
Quote from: "stevek666"
While we are on the subject, I thought I'd share a little excerpt from some of the stuff I've been writing. If there are any errors, or confusing parts, please tell me!


Cool stuff Steve.  Lots of good info in there.  Just for completeness, I suppose you could mention the Memory Base 128 and Save-kun.  Interesting devices, but they aren't as flexible as the Boosters/Ten no Koe imo.
Yes, I always forget about MB 128 and I really don't know anything about Save-kun (except that Kaminari brought it to my attention and confirmed something about it.... what did he confirm? hmmmm.... I can't remember....)

Any info on them would be great :).

I've asked vestcoat for a description of MB 128 a while ago. He complied, but I hope it was here (pcefx) and not at magicengine, because ME's forums lost a year+ worth of posts recently. I was stupid and didn't save a lot of the threads I started on ME. I was slowly gathering info on various topics and I never saved copies locally. IDIOT!
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Kaminari

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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2006, 08:13:34 PM »
Be sure to make the distinction between the Ten no Koe units (Ten no Koe is actually the familiar name for the internal back-up unit, Ten no Koe 2 is the external unit from Hudson) and the Ten no Koe Bank, which is just a Ten no Koe manager :)

The Save-kun from Koei is a clone of the MB128. They're perfectly compatible. Like with the Ten no Koe Bank, you can not directly save your standard games onto the MB128. Those peripherals are mainly for archival purposes (think USB Flash Drive).

I wrote a small Back-Up Booster FAQ for the Necstasy forum a while ago, it's in French but it might be useful.

Digi.k

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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2006, 12:04:22 AM »
Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
I'd guess the save option would be after you complete a level i.e. when you get a password if I remember.


Yea thats what I thought... or at least hope there was an option to save your progress when you are in a middle of a game... but alas even when you complete it...







There's no option to save...

EDIT:

Also wanna add that after trying SNES, GEnesis/Megadrive and Master system versions this is one of the best console versions out there.. I think the PC Engine has some of the best populous BGM's and theres some suitable punch in the drum samples.. but control I would say the PCE is 2nd to Genesis version (as i didnt like the SNES or Mastersystem's that much). Graphically its a lot brighter and colourful than the Genesis and Master systems too.  

Finally I think the PCE version has an option for you to re-paint certain sprites like add trees, change your people's clothes colour to red and still be good and change a few extra stuff too.. oh yea.. I think Hudson Soft has given the PCE version its own intro not found anywhere else.

esteban

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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2006, 03:18:58 AM »
Quote from: "Digi.k"
Also wanna add that after trying SNES, GEnesis/Megadrive and Master system versions this is one of the best console versions out there.. I think the PC Engine has some of the best populous BGM's and theres some suitable punch in the drum samples.. but control I would say the PCE is 2nd to Genesis version (as i didnt like the SNES or Mastersystem's that much). Graphically its a lot brighter and colourful than the Genesis and Master systems too.  

Finally I think the PCE version has an option for you to re-paint certain sprites like add trees, change your people's clothes colour to red and still be good and change a few extra stuff too.. oh yea.. I think Hudson Soft has given the PCE version its own intro not found anywhere else.
Aha! Great stuff, these are the things I'm interested in following-up on! Feel free to share any other observations you make :).
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motdelbuort

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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2006, 07:00:30 AM »
Could the game be auto-saving, like maybe when you complete a level? Is there a continue option when you start the game?

Digi.k

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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2006, 07:39:09 AM »
Quote from: "motdelbuort"
Could the game be auto-saving, like maybe when you complete a level? Is there a continue option when you start the game?


I wish it was.. sadly nope.. and I tried nearly everything in the game set up too.. as well as things like holding all the buttons down while turning on the power .. nothing!   :cry:

sunteam_paul

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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2006, 08:16:49 AM »
Perhaps the battery is just knackered.
The PC Engine Software Bible
Quote from: Tatsujin
I just felt in a hole!

esteban

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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2006, 09:04:47 AM »
Hmmmm, unfortunately, my suspicions concerning the battery might have been accurate, after all.

If we take this:
Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
Perhaps the battery is just knackered.

+
Quote from: "motdelbuort"
Could the game be auto-saving, like maybe when you complete a level? Is there a continue option when you start the game?

=
A dead battery :(

I don't want to give up, but I fear we might have identified the problem. Autosaving + dead battery = suckage. The only way to test this is if you got NEC's BB1 booster, which was designed for your white PCE console. BB1 would give you built-in RAM plus the A/V out that you need. Unfortunately, I don't know how easy/difficult it would be to acquire one of these... since even in Japan they probably weren't super common...

Are we sure there is no way of viewing your save file (or your status) from one of the menus in Populous? Do you folks think a soft restart (RUN + RESET) would cut all the power to the HuCard?

I'll tell you this: I'll dig out my HuCard and try to figure this out if we don't make any headway. We'll eventually get an answer :)
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Digi.k

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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2006, 10:08:05 AM »
well.. I had this same problem back in 1990 when I bought a brand new copy of populous for the PCE still in its shrink wrap and I still couldn't find a way to save it so I exchanged it for a another game after a few weeks...

I'm  gonna order a spare populous  HuCARD and disect one of them when it arrives..

EDIT:

Well I've already ordered a replacement but I couldn't wait for it..  I've opened up the one here already but replacing the batter isn't as easy as I'd thought it would be.. O_o




I'd thought there be something here but its just an empty space.


The chips are all coated up..

Kaminari

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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2006, 02:29:18 PM »
You can't save during a game, IIRC. Saving is done automatically when you reach a new level. Under the Game Options in your first screenshot, there should be a Load Game option which allows you to load any level you previously cleared (along with the last level you reached). If the option doesn't show up after you win the first level in Conquest mode, most probably your battery is dead.