Author Topic: Populous (Read 1247 times)

esteban · « **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2006, 04:00:22 PM »

Quote from: "Digi.k"

well.. I had this same problem back in 1990 when I bought a brand new copy of populous for the PCE still in its shrink wrap and I still couldn't find a way to save it so I exchanged it for a another game after a few weeks...

I'm gonna order a spare populous HuCARD and disect one of them when it arrives..

EDIT:

Well I've already ordered a replacement but I couldn't wait for it.. I've opened up the one here already but replacing the batter isn't as easy as I'd thought it would be.. O_o

DUDE! Save those photos -- lots of folks have been curious about the innards of that HuCard! If possible, can you take some more photos -- as sharply focused as you can get

.

Digi.k · « **Reply #16 on:** April 24, 2006, 11:14:12 AM »

Thanks for the info Kaminari.

when the spare populous arrives I'll pull off that sealant thats covering the chips.. not gonna do it right now cause I can still load that up and play it XD

grahf · « **Reply #17 on:** July 17, 2006, 08:49:18 AM »

Sorry to bring this back from the dead.
Just wanted to add that i have two populous hucards, and neither of mine have the batteries. I suspect they stopped adding them to save money, since most people had systems with backup capability at that point.

Digi.k · « **Reply #18 on:** July 17, 2006, 02:28:21 PM »

I don't think theres ever been a battery

I think how its accessed. is that you nee to have either a Ten no koe bank or the CD-ROM back up and from those you can copy/store it into the RAM of the populous card but I don't think it directly saves into the HuCARD. But this is just a theory as I don't have any cd rom units at the moment.

There's never been anything in that round hole thingy.

And that sealant its really hard and can't be peeled. I wonder why that 3rd bank at the bottom is empty.

grahf · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2006, 04:23:11 PM »

Well im not saying any of ours ever had batteries. Im saying the early releases of Populous probably did. On the back of the card it says "ROMRAM HuCARD", just like the tennokoe bank. Thats how the battery backup works. It has RAM which holds the saves, and the battery keeps the RAM powered so it doesnt lose them. The empty space on the board is for the missing RAM chip.

Now they obviously designed the card to use a battery, due to the casing (battery hole, ROMRAM printed on back). And the missing RAM chip on the board. What i dont know, is whether they ever made any copies of Populous with the RAM and battery, or did they take it out at the last minute? It would have to have been at the VERY VERY last minute, after they already made up a bunch of housings.

Does anyone have a copy that definitely has a battery? You can tell easily by gently squeezing the card at the bulge. The ones without a battery will press in very easy, but with the Tennokoe bank you can feel the battery right away.

esteban · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2006, 04:43:30 PM »

OK, this is quite a mystery to me. I've always thought that all the Populous HuCards had a battery.

Time to go "squeeze the HuCard" (that didn't sound right)!

We must solve this conundrum!

Digi.k · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2006, 05:33:18 AM »

well this is the only part in the manual that has something to do with saving.. I wish someone can translate it ..

esteban · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:00:41 AM »

It looks like they show a white PCE plugged into a Tennokoe Bank 2 in the picture...

Crap. I just squeezed my Populous HuCard... it is soft, unlike the Tennokoe Bank HuCard that doesn't bend at all. Now, unless my Populous uses a smaller battery, I don't think there's anything in it.

I noticed that Populous packaging only has one symbol on it (the battery), but this might actually represent back-up Ram compatibility.

The Tennokoe Bank package, in contrast, has the same symbol as above, PLUS a second symbol depicting the side-view of a HuCard with a "battery" in it.

Does this mean that TB is really the only HuCard to ever have a battery?

Very, very odd. And Populous is a 4Mbit game, so it's not like it ever needed a beefier HuCard like SF II' ...

nodtveidt · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2006, 12:06:04 PM »

So perhaps Ireland was right when he stated that the TB was the first hucard to actually use a battery...come to think of it, I've heard nothing but "my Populous battery is broken!" and never "my Populous battery works just fine" so who knows, maybe they never did actually add a battery...

Kaminari · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2006, 10:12:12 PM »

The manual just confirms that you can't save in the middle of a game. Your progress is saved after you cleared a map. You can later load your game (or more precisely choose your level, if memory serves me right) via the Load option I talked about earlier in this thread. Further details are provided at page 30 of the manual, if anyone cares to scan it

As for the built-in battery, I'm almost certain I was thoroughly playing this game on my white PC Engine (without any Back-Up Booster), two years before I got a Duo. But my pal Alzheimer tells me it's been an awful while...

This question is interesting because, if Populous is able to fall back on the Back-Up RAM (internal or external) in case the built-in battery is lacking, then I don't explain why Magic Engine doesn't save your progress. I always assumed it didn't do so precisely because it doesn't emulated the battery (if you try using the Ten no Koe Bank with ME, the emulator complains that the battery is dead).

Someone could try it on another emulator, out of curiosity.

Digi.k · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2006, 01:55:02 AM »

heres the scan of page 30.

grahf · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2006, 05:37:10 AM »

Im dieing to get to the bottom of this. Could they really have changed their minds at the last minute and decided not to include the batteries? Unless someone finds a card with one, its beginning to look like thats the case.

esteban · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2006, 06:32:19 AM »

I think we should all do the "squeeze" test, if only to collect anecdotal evidence. SQUEEZE YOUR HuCARD. There is a very distinct and obvious difference between the Tennokoe Bank and the Populous HuCards. Even if you don't have TB, you'll be able to determine if Populous is soft and squishy.

Quote from: "nodtveidt"

So perhaps Ireland was right when he stated that the TB was the first hucard to actually use a battery...come to think of it, I've heard nothing but "my Populous battery is broken!" and never "my Populous battery works just fine" so who knows, maybe they never did actually add a battery...

Exactly what I was thinking yesterday! I'll have to revise my article and offer my apologies to Mr. Ireland

Quote from: "Kaminari"

This question is interesting because, if Populous is able to fall back on the Back-Up RAM (internal or external) in case the built-in battery is lacking, then I don't explain why Magic Engine doesn't save your progress. I always assumed it didn't do so precisely because it doesn't emulated the battery (if you try using the Ten no Koe Bank with ME, the emulator complains that the battery is dead).

Someone could try it on another emulator, out of curiosity.

I have a question: does ME emulate the 2K internal RAM of the CD systems? I know that Wonderboy III: Monster Lair, for example, will use a memory slot to save high scores on the real hardware. Does ME do this as well?

I have never tried, but what happens if I hit "SELECT" on the CD boot up screen?

Kaminari · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2006, 09:14:23 AM »

Yes, it does emulate the BRAM. Maybe most people are using save states nowadays, but you can still save your progress the good old way (if the game allows you to do so, of course). Two modes are available -- you can change the behaviour of the back-up emulation in the config file.

The old mode emulates a BRAM the traditional way: one BRAM for all your games, with a 2 kB limitation (backup.ram file). The new mode creates a BRAM for each and every single game that is BRAM compatible (compiled into the backup.dat file).

The new mode is very useful for some games that need a full BRAM, but the minor downside is that you can't display the content of the BRAM anymore (the System Card's back-up manager appears always empty, because from the point of view of ME, you're looking at the BRAM of the System Card itself, not the BRAM of the last game you loaded -- if you see what I mean).

Black Tiger · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2006, 04:26:23 PM »

Quote from: "grahf"

Im dieing to get to the bottom of this. Could they really have changed their minds at the last minute and decided not to include the batteries? Unless someone finds a card with one, its beginning to look like thats the case.

Well, they wound up shipping SFIICE in the double HuCard case because they reportedly were planning on making the CD/HuCard combo work up until the last minute.

So, whether it was deciding to save production costs, unfixable development problems/glitches, or whatever the reason... Populus shipping without the save feature in a romram case is still more plausible than what happened with SFIICE, so I wouldn't be surprised.