Will there ever be a TG16 price crash?

[DarkKobold]

never found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect.

Actually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

[xelement5x]

R7 or gtfo

[StarDust4Ever]

B.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse?

[esteban]

B.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse?

Back when TTi was dissolved, I personally shredded hundreds of copies of Magical Chase, Hero Tonma, Air Zonk and, sadly Hatris (a North American version was ready to ship).

I wish I had grabbed a few, but I didn't want to lose my job.

[Lost Monkey]

Fwiw Magical Chase was on the Donsal order forms and in stock for quite a while.  I am sure that is why so many copies have shown up for sale from Canada. I found mine in a junk store in Windsor, Ontario circa 1997.

[TheClash603]

B.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse?

Back when TTi was dissolved, I personally shredded hundreds of copies of Magical Chase, Hero Tonma, Air Zonk and, sadly Hatris (a North American version was ready to ship).

I wish I had grabbed a few, but I didn't want to lose my job.

You've been reported to Simon Wiesenthal.

[seieienbu]

Actually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

At this point it really seems there's too small of a sample size to determine anything via the sold auctions on ebay.  That being said, if you cherry pick the lowest single value then yeah, you might be able to make that claim.  As it is, I think that's disingenuous at best.  There are 4 GB Rampart sales in recent history.  The most recent one went for $8, yes, but the other 3 went for $15.

This guy brought the price up on a game single handed.  The price has not dropped back down to the $4 he was buying the games at originally.  Maybe they're not currently at the all time high price but they certainly didn't ever drop back down to the starting price.  The important thing to note here is that one person can affect prices over years. 

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

[esteban]

Actually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

At this point it really seems there's too small of a sample size to determine anything via the sold auctions on ebay.  That being said, if you cherry pick the lowest single value then yeah, you might be able to make that claim.  As it is, I think that's disingenuous at best.  There are 4 GB Rampart sales in recent history.  The most recent one went for $8, yes, but the other 3 went for $15.

This guy brought the price up on a game single handed.  The price has not dropped back down to the $4 he was buying the games at originally.  Maybe they're not currently at the all time high price but they certainly didn't ever drop back down to the starting price.  The important thing to note here is that one person can affect prices over years. 

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

You would also have to factor in any "overall" upward trend of GB prices that the GB market had been experiencing, as a general trend.

[seieienbu]

You would also have to factor in any "overall" upward trend of GB prices that the GB market had been experiencing, as a general trend.

This is true, but by the low end a price doubling is a rather steep increase percentage-wise to begin with.  Quadrupling or (at the peak) going up 8-fold though?  That wasn't going to happen on its own instantly.

[bob]

rampart is fun

[xelement5x]

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I think the larger cause is the "gotta have it" mindset in conjunction with the market rising.  People see something and want to buy/play it instantly so they get the first decent looking BIN they see which seems to raise the price (because it seems like BIN prices are what are always going up and raising the "cost" of an item). 

I'll admit I'm guilty of finding something and jumping on it quickly so that don't have to worry about getting it later on down the line if/when the price goes up on it.  But of course at the same time I'll sit on watches for years waiting for something to show up at auction just to save a couple bucks.

[gex]

rampart is fun

Poor Rampart, everyone now remembers it best by that game nintentards used as a economy science project

[Mathius]

Esty, I didn't know you worked for TTI! 

[DarkKobold]

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I don't think we disagree with each other all that much. Also, even if he started buying at $4, the price surely went up as he was trying to manipulate it. Even so, lets take the one completed BIN on eBay, and assume he was able to get every one of his 20 copies at $5 shipped, and sells every single copy at 15 free shipping (to match the sold listing). $10x20 = $200... but...

It costs a minimum of $2.61 to ship a game today, USPS. The envelope costs $0.10. He's paying $1.50 in eBay fees (assuming he isn't a power seller). Paypal fees are 2.9%, or $0.44, + $0.30 per transaction, so all his costs add up to $4.95 a sale, or $99 total. His 'experiment' netted him a whole whopping $101. For a years work.

My point is, it doesn't make sense to buy games at market value today, as an investment in their worth tomorrow. I highly doubt anyone is doing that on a massive scale.

THAT SAID...

I do think prices can be arbitrarily held high by the plenty of people that are in for the flip. I'm guilty of this, and yet, so is price-whiner gynt. Either refreshing eBay constantly to get that sweet too-low priced BIN, for the flip, or going to retro video game stores/conventions, finding things that are 'under current market value' and buying them for the flip. You might already have the game, but there is money to be made between the price its being sold for, and the price you can sell it for. Maybe you already own that game, or maybe you don't even want it, you just want money. The problem is, that removes it from the market, and forces a buyer who actual wants to keep it to pay your higher price. I think this is the only common form of profiteering in this hobby. It does prop up prices to a degree, but that isn't manipulation, its just how markets work.

[StarDust4Ever]

Whenever I go to GameXChange I look at the shelves and it's nothing but sports and throwaways, then a modest selection of good games under the glass with premium price tags.

Then every time I turn around, I see some asshat reseller with his smart phone comparing ebay prices to the shelf sitters, then walk up to the counter with a stack of games to buy. They generally don't even bother looking under the glass because those are already sold at premium.

At least I know who to blame as to why there's no local deals on hidden gems anymore. Nevermind the fact that the employees don't even know what Turbografx is and can't accept trade ins if it's not in the system.