Author Topic: The Ys Thread (Read 1008 times)

cavein2000 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2006, 02:50:55 AM »

Wow, good arguements for both platforms, I tried picking off an auction for ys 1-3 TGCD on ebay last night but they went for over 80 bucks. I think I am going to try to get both the PC and Turbo versions, although the PC does sound a bit more appealing with the use of a playstation controller. I'm still kind of undecided. I would like to at least own a copy of ys 1 and 2 Turbo and play it eventually if I can get a copy for about 40 bucks complete.

One potential issue I have with switching to the PC platform for RPGs is that I may become numb to the older console graphics. I have recently played through Final Fantasy IV(re-release on PS1) and believe me it was a great game, but a bit of a struggle to complete (which I did) because of the graphics.

FM-77 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2006, 04:18:12 AM »

Ys Book I & II will cost you about $100 if you want a complete copy (case, manual, map and box).

cavein2000 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2006, 04:32:26 AM »

right - meant minus the box - in very good to mint.

Oh yeah, Seldane - I couldn't find the PS2 to PC controller adapter on the Joytech site, or at any of the retailers. Can you shoot me a link to the product if you get the change? I found several other 3rd party adapters fairly cheap on ebay, but whatever you recommend I will go for. Thanks again!!

Jay

FM-77 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2006, 04:47:22 AM »

Mayflash makes these adapters as well. I have a GC -> adapter that they made and it is decent. Not as good as the Joytech adapter but it works.

Mayflash

I can't find the one I'm using anywhere outside of Europe though. Look around for "Joytech PS2 to USB Controller Convertor", that's what it is called.

Keranu · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2006, 01:31:17 PM »

Seldane, get ready for a e-battle

.

Quote from: "Seldane"

Why play the TG16 games and THEN the others? I mean ... WHY the TG16 versions? Is there a particular reason to this? Every North American Ys release has gotten severely butchered, but the TG16 versions take the lead here. Everything's wrong. That's why there's so much Ys misinformation outside of Japan.

Okay, well here is certainly a good reason to play the TGCD version first...

IT'S IN ENGLISH!

If you read my original post, I list reasons what makes the TGCD version so nice, so do I really need to repost that? If you are going to play any Ys game first, may as well play one that is in English.

Lets look at our other options:

Master System - This only includes Ys I, so cavein or another other newbie to the series will more than likely want the full story. Also, the Master System version is pretty much inferior to the TGCD version in every way.

Ys Eternal Complete - Wasn't officially released in America, it just has a fan translation. I do recommend playing this game, however I think it would be best to play one of the earlier Ys games before this so you can appreciate Eternal as more of a remake.

Cellular Telephone - Once again, only includes Ys I. Not only that, but you have to have a cell phone to play it and you have all those weird charges and what not; not to mention that you are playing it on a little cell phone

.

Quote from: "Seldane"

Having played every Ys game in existance I honestly think Ys I-III on TG16 are some of the worst Ys games of them all (Ys I on DOS being THE worst Ys game ever). Why? Mainly because of the gameplay... it is just so DULL. I also really dislike the music. That's right, I hate Ryo Yonemitsu!

Well okay, that's just your opinion and since cavein is taking opinions from people, he will probably lean toward the vase majority, which clearly prefers the PCE versions. I have given my reasons why I think the TGCD/PCE versions are better and if I do say so myself, they are better versions simply because overall they feature better options, so that means a little more than just taste.

Quote from: "Seldane"

I seriously doubt Ys I-II will be more memorable than YsI-II COMPLETE these days. Sure, you guys played it ten years ago, but it is NOT the same thing for someone who has never played Ys before! Most people who start out with an old version these days won't find any interest in it whatsoever and then abandon Ys forever, never touching the newer games. Believe me, I've seen it happen many times.

Well lets look at the situation again. Cavein seems to be a Turbo Grafx 16 gamer in today's age, so that means he's probably into other classic games as well and because of this, he won't mind an older game as much and if it's for a platform he enjoys, then why not play it for the platform he enjoys? Especially when so many people recommend the TGCD's version.

And just to add to this situation, I didn't play Ys until about 2002 when I was 14 years old (yes I started with the TGCD version) and since I didn't play it ten years ago, that didn't effect my preference.

Also I believe you are contradicting yourself here. From what you've said in this quote, it sounds like you think Eternal is the best way to play Ys, after you were saying on a previous account of how the PC88, MSX, and Master System versions are the best.

Quote from: "Seldane"

I'm saying skip Ys IV because it has nothing to do with the Ys series. It wasn't written by Falcom and Hudson obviously didn't have a clue about what was going on in the Ys universe because they got it all wrong. One incredible thing about the Ys series is that everything fits together. There's not a single detail that gets unexplained if you do your research. Ys IV PCE ruins all of this. It messes up everything. It is like including Thumb Wars in the official Star Wars saga.

I don't care if Dawn of Ys didn't connect story wise with the other Ys games because the story it had was awesome enough as it was. To further add to this, I find the Ys games outside of Ys I & II to be so different that they aren't even on the same pace because I & II had what I believe the most epic video game tale of all time. I'm glad Hudson made Dawn of Ys because they made an incredible game using Falcom's original ideas, perhaps improving them in ways.

Quote from: "Seldane"

Also, let me explain why YsI-II COMPLETE sounds "weak" -- those games are designed for hardcore Ys fans. All the music from that game has been taken DIRECTLY from the PC-8801 original and has been polished to sound a little better. To the original fans who loved the old chip music in YsI-II (myself included) loves this music!

How do you know for sure that Falcom's intentions were to design the music from Eternal directly from the original PC88 version? It could be possible of course, but I want proof before you state this. And if that was the case, what does it matter? The point that matters is what the listener WANTS to listen to, and for what it seems like people want something to sound like Ryo Yonemitsu's arrangements!

[QUOTE author="Seldane"}Have you ever played YsI-II COMPLETE, Keranu? The "cinemas" in these games are incredible. Especially when playing the translated versions (Deuce's Japanese to English translation skills are highly superior to any Japanese amateurs at Hudson).[/quote]
Why yes, yes I have played Ys I & II Complete and I stated why I didn't like the cinemas already (which is starting to sound to me like you haven't payed much attention to my original post). To refresh your memory, I personally didn't like the cinemas for Eternal and this was due to MY taste, just like how you have your one preferences. Some others may like Eternal's cinemas, some don't. Here's why I don't like them in case a newbie like cavein has similar tastes to me:

1. ) I'm not a fan of CG cinemas, whether it be in movies or games.
2. ) I'm not much of a fan of modern anime art and Eternal used a rather heavy modern anime art style. I prefer classic anime style if any.
3. ) I LOVE old skool cinemas that you would see in NES, TGCD, Sega CD games etc..., so this was a real treat for me in the original versions of Ys.

Quote from: "Seldane"

My point is this: avoid the old versions until you've played the latest ones, they ARE much better than the TG16/PCE versions whatever anyone here says. If you ask the same question on another board (if you can find a board with Ys fans, that is) nobody will ever mention the PCE versions -- they'll all scream YS COMPLETE and Ys THE OATH IN FELGHANA!

Let me give you a tip: Don't use your own opinions as facts. You can't say "THIS GAME IS THE BEST" just because you like it more, it's probably better off to state that as your own opinion. I have given my reasons why I prefer the TGCD version and I have stated them with my opinion. And to comment on what you said about people screaming OATH IN FELGHANA, that's not a very fair comparison since it plays completely different from the original Ys III

; that's like comparing Super Mario Bros. to Mario 64.

Cavein, it's up to you to decide which one you play first.[/QUOTE]

Keranu · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2006, 02:03:04 PM »

I'm sorry Seldane, I also have to comment on this more:

Quote from: "Seldane"

Having played every Ys game in existance I honestly think Ys I-III on TG16 are some of the worst Ys games of them all (Ys I on DOS being THE worst Ys game ever). Why? Mainly because of the gameplay... it is just so DULL. I also really dislike the music. That's right, I hate Ryo Yonemitsu!

I am interested, why do you think the gameplay is dull in the TGCD version? I find the gameplay to be a great improvement over the original versions since it plays at a nicer pace, has nice hit detection, and has well done dungeon layouts. The gameplay may seem dull compared to Eternal for these days, but it's certainly an improvement over the originals if you ask me and I think most would agree. I don't see how you can say the TGCD version has dull gameplay when you say you recommend Eternal because it has very nice gameplay, yet you think the original versions of Ys has better gameplay than the updated TGCD version? You are confusing me!

Also keep in mind your music preference is your opinion, so that leaves many others out there who love the TGCD version's music. So this gives you two reasons why you don't like the TGCD version: oneis because of the music which is because of an opinion, and the other is because you find the gameplay dull, yet you didn't give your reasons. These aren't very convincing reasons why tell someone not to play the TGCD version.

cavein2000 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2006, 03:45:31 PM »

THINK HAPPY THOUGHTS

Alright... Looks like I've started a fire. I guess that's what happens when you take a series that people are very passionate about and ask where to start. I really didn't want to pit Ys Complete against the Turbo CD Ys 1 and 2. I agree with many things that both of you had to say and appreciate both of your most valuable opinions.

I think I am definitely going to play both games and if I like them, which I'm sure I will, that action figure set looks pretty bad ass too (I've got a pretty wicked video game figure collection).

Where I will start, I'm not really sure yet. Part of me thinks it would be more of a treat to go with the Turbo version and then reward myself with supersweet graphics and all afterwards. It does sound a bit more natural to go with the original then the remake. Sting, then Puff Daddy. Either way, Ys 1 and 2 is the starting point. Well see what happens from there. I still have over 20 rpgs sitting around that I have to play in no particular order. It may be some time before I get to it, currently rocking Kingdom Hearts II, with a Valkyrie Profile on deck I believe (could easily pop Ys in front though).

And ummm.. you guys should be cool to each other and stuff.

Keranu · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2006, 06:31:43 PM »

I think we are in good shape here, there is no name calling and what not so we can debate like gentleman

. I would never want to say anything bad about Seldane since we both help out at Frozen Utopia and he's an incredible tile artist that I wouldn't want to see the team loose.

cavein2000 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2006, 02:27:58 AM »

Right on!

malducci · « **Reply #24 on:** May 05, 2006, 01:55:41 PM »

Kenaru, you arguement for TG versions in this debate are NULL for the fact that Seldane is not a TG or PCE fanboy or even fan for that matter.

He gotta point about the new Ys I and II for PC being superior, but still I like the TG16-CD versions better for the fact they have more sentimental value for me - not to mention better music

Quote

I also really dislike the music. That's right, I hate Ryo Yonemitsu!

Hehe

Guess you're not the Ys fan I thought you were...

cavein2000 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 05, 2006, 03:47:14 PM »

But have you taken the fanboy test? A special one should be made that accounts for PCE gamers too.

FM-77 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 06, 2006, 01:04:41 AM »

Quote from: "malducci"

Hehe Guess you're not the Ys fan I thought you were...

What do you mean? Ryo Yonemitsu has nothing to do with Ys itself. He arranged some music in third-party games and music cds but that's it. I'm not a very big fan of video game music in the first place, and I certainly don't like his "work."

I'm too lazy to reply to Keranu's post.

Emerald Rocker · « **Reply #27 on:** May 06, 2006, 04:30:35 AM »

I guess I'll toss my thoughts on the Ys series in here, too. I'm not trying to leap into the argument -- I'm just giving another voice and another opinion, so any attempts by anyone to argue or debate with me will be USELESS! Muahahaha.

I'll only cover what I consider to be the major games. If it's not listed, I either haven't played it, didn't like it, or don't feel like it's important enough to mention.

Ys I&II TG-CD -- If you have any love for old Turbo games, I recommend playing this one first. The gameplay is much weaker than future versions, and the music (as a whole) is weaker, too, although some tracks are excellent.

The reason I say to play it first, is because (1) the basics (graphics, gameplay, music) are weaker than other versions, so you won't already be "spoiled" if you play this one first, and (2) it does some things presentation-wise that you won't find anywhere else -- moments that will haunt you forever. It's a legendary experience, and for good reason. The opening cinematic, Dark Fact's speech, the 80's OVA-style character designs... classic stuff. The game feels very much like a product of its era, and I like that. A lot.

Ys I&II Complete (PC) -- A fantastic remake. I prefer most of the music in this (although again, the TG-CD has a few excellent tracks). The graphics are of course much better. The character artwork is modern, but conservative. I absolutely adore most of the designs, although a few looked better on the Saturn version (which is also great, but only worth playing if you're on a mission to play every version). Most of all, the gameplay has been drastically improved.

I have not played the English translation, so I can't comment on that.

Ys VI: The Ark of Napishtim (PS2) -- Although I prefer the PC version, the PS2 one gets the nod from me just by virtue of being in English. And it's easier to perform the dash jump. This is a great game -- I personally believe the soundtrack is amazing, the depth of play is better than ever, and it's very charming and appealing. I've actually reviewed all three versions, if you're interested in that kind of thing.

PC version review
PS2 version review
PSP version review

Ys: The Oath in Felghana (PC) -- This is it, the BEST YS GAME EVER. It's a drastic remake of Ys 3. I don't know if it's even worth playing Ys 3 (TG-CD) first or not... on the one hand, it's nice to see what's been changed. On the other hand, that would spoil this fantastic story!

They took the Ys 6 gameplay engine, which was already phenomenal by comparison to any other recent action-RPG, and created a game that makes Ys 6 look primitive and unambitious by comparison. The boss fights are pattern-based like an old-school game, but unpredictable enough to be difficult no matter how many times you've beaten them before. The dungeons are elaborate, thought-provoking, and beautiful. And the music is incredible. My favorite Ys game and my favorite Ys soundtrack... 2005 was a great year for games.

esteban · « **Reply #28 on:** May 06, 2006, 08:37:50 AM »

haahhaahhaahhahaa. Wow, I missed all this fun stuff. Why is it that all the drama occurrs when I'm gone?

I have limited time, so I'll just make some general points

:

* The charges of fanboyism leveled at those who recommended the TG-CD version of Ys I & II are laughable. The only fanboyism I've witnessed in this thread is a particular breed of Ys Fanboyism (that's with a capital "F") that fears that the purity of the "One True Ys" will be corrupted by lesser, heretical versions (indeed, these inferior versions should be banished forever and left to rot in their own putrid stew, since they will never ascend to the lofty altar of the Ys Canon).

* We're on a PCE / TG-16 forum. I assume that folks here are interested in and appreciate slightly older games. Has anyone noticed that we enthusiastically talk about and play these "dated" games?

* Given the fact that we are a retro-gaming board, why wouldn't we recommend the still very playable, still totally awesome TG-CD Ys I & II to a native English speaker who isn't proficient in the Japanese language?

* IMO, telling someone that their virgin Ys experience should be a modern update / installment is akin to recommending Metroid Prime as an introduction to the Metroid series. Anyone who is remotely interested in retro-gaming (I hate that term, by the way -- it's just "gaming"), the history of video games, the roots of a classic series, etc. will appreciate TG-CD Ys I & II. It's not a stale, dessicated piece of video game history, it is a very playable game to this day. If you don't like slightly older, 2D games, then no, I would never force you to play the TG-CD version. But then again, you probably wouldn't be at these forums if you felt this way...

* To call an appreciation of slightly older games "fanboyism" is silly. To characterize an appeciation of older games as mere "nostalgia" is insulting and inaccurate (this is a huge issue and deserves a whole topic alone).

*

sunteam_paul · « **Reply #29 on:** May 06, 2006, 08:49:46 AM »

Quote from: "cavein2000"

I still have over 20 rpgs sitting around that I have to play in no particular order. It may be some time before I get to it, currently rocking Kingdom Hearts II, with a Valkyrie Profile on deck I believe (could easily pop Ys in front though).

Well with no great amount of time consuming level grind (unlike a lot of turn based RPGs) Ys I&II can be got through fairly quickly. Do yourself a favour and give it the priority it deserves

Oh and if I were you.
1. Dabble with a Master System ROM of Ys 1.
2. Play through the PC Engine Ys 1 & 2
3. Play the PC version.
In that order you get to see technical improvements every time you play.