Author Topic: TG16/PCE cd archives  (Read 1233 times)

Ninja16608

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2014, 03:35:07 PM »
Life is too short to get angry, If your looking for a fight thread go start one, you won't get it from me :-)

HailingTheThings

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2014, 03:39:14 PM »


NightWolve

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2014, 06:42:30 PM »
...is this a joke? If it is, it's not a funny one, and if it's not a joke... dude... it's 2014... this shit is not only commonplace, it's f*cking old-school nowadays. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together and a CD burner (which has been standard equipment on PCs for like the last 10 years) can make backups of their own discs that run fine on the real thing, especially on a forum like this where there are so many very knowledgeable people, not to mention people like myself, Arkhan, Bonknuts, TheOldMan, NightWolve, touko... people who know the special format left, right, backwards, upside-down, sideways, diagonal, and inserted into the anus of a forest boar carcass and served with toast. Something like this might have worked 15 years ago, when the internet was still relatively new and people didn't know any better.
Heh-heh, yeah, agreed! 15 years ago there was Tru's ISO/CD-R Backup Business, selling any game you wanted at $5 bucks a pop on newsgroups and via his website. There was another known guy Kadamose, I believe, same thing after Tru. Back then, the CD-R burning failure rate was high, the CD-R recording software was finicky, the Internet was very, very slow via 56 kbps modems, so the market/demand was there to profit off of CD-R "backups" (AKA pirated copies).

Thing is, Ninja16608, it's almost pointless to market this as a service only if you can prove you own the original... People cared about this for the games that they did NOT own, but wanted!! Nowadays, with practically everything on the Internet, somewhere, if you look hard enough, and since we're way past the 56 kbps downstream days, these "backup" businesses got put out of business long time ago... For the most part anyway. I was apart of that after Tenchi-no-ryu founded a group called RIGG which taught you how to burn CD-Rs yourselves and offered the top PCE/TG-16 games free for download in RAR archives.

Now it's true, sometimes you do find a person that can't burn a CD-R themselves. It happens. I have had a handful of people over the years ask me to pre-patch Xak III and Ys IV with my English patches for them cause they failed to patch'n'burn a copy themselves. But given the rarity of the need, you couldn't establish something serious from it.

Anyway, call it hypocritical, but to publicly market a pirating service here in the forums is unwanted by the admin's wishes. That's the default PR distancing position. Now me personally, I feel that since the system is dead and NEC is out of the gaming business that the library has a level of de facto public domain status and I approve of copying so as many people get to enjoy these games. Especially since you have these insanely greedy profiteering nutjobs loose on eBay and here (like the barely literate wmac "Im...trust anal person" monagle - he disgusts me at this point). But, I also think that when you run a forum like that in principle, you attract [bad] members that are not worthwhile (or much worse) in my view and you put your forum hosting at risk, that is, if you were a pirating network in principle/general.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 07:05:39 PM by NightWolve »

Necromancer

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2014, 03:40:55 AM »
I'm in the same boat, NW.  I gives no f*cks if somebody wants to make a copy (unless it's homebrew), but this ain't the place to publicly offer copies for profit (however meager), and I can do without the self-righteous "It's legal!  Only if you already own it!" bullshit.
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toymachine78

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2014, 03:58:57 AM »
At what point do these games become Abandonware? There are plenty of old games from defunct developers and publishers? Obviously not all turbo/pce games fall into this category, as I'm sure publishers like Konami and Namco etc still protect their IP, but surely a good many do. Obviously this stuff isn't too enforced or there would not be so many ROM sites etc that are thriving.

Necromancer

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2014, 04:19:49 AM »
Abandonware just means it's out of print and no longer supported by the publisher; it doesn't mean rights have been relinquished, the copyright holder just doesn't give a shit.

Generally, copyrights expire 70 years after the creator's death or 95 years after first publication for anything that is done for hire.
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toymachine78

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2014, 06:19:57 AM »
Abandonware just means it's out of print and no longer supported by the publisher; it doesn't mean rights have been relinquished, the copyright holder just doesn't give a shit.

Generally, copyrights expire 70 years after the creator's death or 95 years after first publication for anything that is done for hire.

Well I echo your sentiments then. If the publisher/owner is out of business is just doesn't give two shits then why should we. Unless being a self righteous/pious rule follower makes you feel good about yourself.

I've always been a little antisocial personally. I guess its the punk/skater in me.

toymachine78

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2014, 06:28:31 AM »
I think if everyone is gonna get their panties up their ass over this, then everyone using copyrighted artwork or images as their avatar pictures need to remove them or give credit in their signature.

Hell look at me. I use an active brand as my handle and their artwork all over the net. Here, Google, YTube, and EBay. I'm not really concerned that Ed Templeton is going to take legal action against me. Hell he would probably like advertisement.

bob

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2014, 06:33:12 AM »
I don't even think it's in Ed's hands anymore.  Tod Swank may care more.

toymachine78

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2014, 06:54:45 AM »
I don't even think it's in Ed's hands anymore.  Tod Swank may care more.

Oh yeah... I forgot they are a part of Tum Yeto now.

Necromancer

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2014, 07:08:43 AM »
Again, I don't think anyone here cares that much about the making of CDRs in and of itself.  It's his bullshit attitude about it being a "legal" service while he turns a small profit.

Besides, for what do you need archives of games you legitimately own?  It's not like the laser is going to wear them out, and it's not that hard to teach children boundaries.
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toymachine78

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2014, 07:57:55 AM »
Again, I don't think anyone here cares that much about the making of CDRs in and of itself.  It's his bullshit attitude about it being a "legal" service while he turns a small profit.

Besides, for what do you need archives of games you legitimately own?  It's not like the laser is going to wear them out, and it's not that hard to teach children boundaries.

I think its more of the game-pocalypse fear that at some unknown date in the future all retro games will be raptured up to game heaven, at which point they will degrade/delaminate or become corrupt and fail to work.

Keith Courage

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2014, 08:09:14 AM »
I could definitely see this service being useful if it were for actual pressed copies of the games. I know I cringe anytime I take my Bonk 3 CD out of its case to play it because I'm so afraid of scratching or dropping it.

Ninja16608

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2014, 08:17:19 AM »
It's his bullshit attitude about it being a "legal" service while he turns a small profit.

There was no bullshit attitude man, I really did think by reading the copyright laws 117 to be exact, that you could perform a backup for someone else. That is how it reads. It was also pointed out that they must be a 1-1 copy or they are not an archive. I'm curious as to why a copy would play without the error track/s would the system not look for them 

TheOldMan

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Re: TG16/PCE cd archives
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2014, 10:20:42 AM »
I'm not trying to take sides on the debate. I don't care if you offer to make backups. Really.
However, like some other people, it bothers me to hear people repeat the same mis-information over and over as justification for their actions.
<ie, Magical chase is worth $5000, because there are only 500 copies in existence.>

Quote
I really did think by reading the copyright laws 117 to be exact, that you could perform a backup for someone else.
Go back and read section 117 closely, with a lawyers eyes. There are only 2 cases when it is legal to make a backup copy, whether the owner does it or someone else is paid to do it:

1) If it is -essential- to the operations -of the program-.

My lawyer refers to this as the hard-drive clause; you can make a copy (ie, install to a hard drive or other medium) if it is required to use the program. More specifically, if the program runs fine from the supplied medium. you may -not- make a legal copy (not even copy to a hard drive). You must use the original medium.

2) It is an archive copy of the program.

This clause allows you to make (or cause to be made) backup, archive copies of programs. Many people believe this is what allows you to make copies for others; in a sense, this is true. You can hire someone to backup up all of your computers and it is legal - provided the copies meet the definitions of backup/archive copies. Which means they must be stored securely, and only used in the case of failure resulting in the loss of the original program. Even then, they may only be used to restore the computer to its original state.

I fail to see how a cdr copy of a game, that plays fine from a cd without installation, meets either of these clauses.

.....................
My other remark was more of a warning to you. Once you accept money for performing a service, you have certain legal requirements. One of those is that you must make sure the copies you provide are legal copies. That means lots of paperwork and verification to make sure they are stored correctly (generally under lock-and-key for backups) and not used in violation of the law. Should you fail to provide such proof, -YOU- are liable for any damages, not the person receiving the copies. Any profits could quickly evaporate under even a single copyright suit - not to mention your house, car, etc.
...................
As for the need of a 1-1 copy for backup? It's an easy way to prove whether a copy is a legitimate backup or not. If information is missing, by definition the copy is -not- a backup. It's an easy way to prove whether or not the copy was produced "in a lawful manner".  Note that this does not mean you have to have a direct copy of the original discs; it is possible to make a 1-1 copy of software installed to a hard drive, provided -all- information from an original installation is preserved.
For the record, a company I used to work for often embedded information in unused sectors on a disc, via a program they wrote, just to detect whether people were making copies of their software.
The software would install and run fine; but if the signature/serial was not present on the disc when the sotware was installed, it would e-mail the company with information about where it was installed, and when. Many companies rushed to buy extra licenses when they were informed about their copies being leaked to employees for home use :)

Just fyi: as was explained to me, the 'derivate work' clause essentially means you may alter user-editable files (ie, configuration files) and still have a legitimate copy.
...............
As for everyone shouting 'abandonware': Legally, someone still owns the rights to the software. Living in the era of patent trolls and blanket lawsuits over music sharing, I can easily picture a day when some bright person puts together a company that buys the rights to out-of-print games, for pennies in many cases, and then proceeds to sue everyone who has ever made a copy and distributed it.
Filing a lawsuit is cheap. Even if the company only wins 1% of their cases, they will make a profit - and that's the actual intent of the company. If they can get people to settle out of court, even for $10, that's probably more than they paid for the rights in the first place. Multiply that by the number of sites offering roms, and by the number of roms they distribute. It's all profit for them. And disaster for those who get caught. By offering to make many copies cheaply, you'll be one of the first in their sites.

Finally, remember copyrights last a long time. 30 years from now, some one could decide to sue you over a breach made now. Their proof? Let's check the WayBack machine, or the internet archives....

'Nuff said.