I consider Famicom disk games, to be Famicom games and part of its library. I also consider Majora's Mask part of the N64 library, even though you're forced to purchase an addon pack (ram expansion pack) to play the game.
I've already covered the FDS, but the subject of RAM expansions and the like is one I should expand on, because it's an interesting, somewhat hard-to-categorize case.
Okay, this is an important question. As SamIAm said and I have also explained with different words, this is the main reason why addons are different from the main systems' their libraries are a part of:
The reason why these don't seem to me to be add-ons is because they're basically transparent to the user, and to me, the user's perspective is paramount. Aside from a fractional increase in price in some cases, there is no difference between buying and playing an "enhanced" cartridge and buying and playing an ordinary one.
I bet somewhere out there is an SNES fan who doesn't even realize that his Star Fox cart has a chip in it. I bet there are LOTS of people who don't realize that Mario Kart has a DSP chip in it. A few people on these forums probably don't even realize that SFII on the PCE has a mapper in it.
Yes, indeed, this is absolutely correct. Perception is key. This explains almost all cases, why some things are addons and others are not.
However, what this leaves out is what that first quote above mentions -- things like RAM expansions and, also, video enhancement addons. The main examples of these I can think of are the Turbo CD Super and Arcade cards, the N64 RAM pack, the Saturn 1MB and 4MB RAM packs, the Saturn Video CD Card, and the CD-i Digital Video Cartridge.
All of those things I just listed are hardware objects which add something to the hardware of the console. They are also sold separately from the console they connect to; some may be built-in in some models, but never all, and if some require it as an addon that's all that is needed to put it in the addon category. They have games which require them. These things seem to be addons.
However, they are much cheaper than traditional addons (like a Turbo CD, Sega CD, etc.) they do NOT change the media format, and you do not put games into them -- instead, you just put the game in the system like normal. As a result, these things do not usually get counted as addons. Should they be anyway? Hmm... generally I would say no, because that's how things are classified. It was decided by game companies and game listing sites that those things are expansions, not full addons, so they aren't classified that way. Things only get called true 'add-ons' if they don't just plug in to a system, but they actually change where you put the games, apparently. Should they be anyway? Well... maybe, but it IS true that no game company has divided their systems' library that way -- the Saturn, CD-i, N64, and TCD all clearly include all of the games as a part of the system's library, with no breakdown like you see between Genesis and 32X games and the like. The closest to having such a delineation is the TCD, since it uses different end-label logos for the regular, Super, and Arcade cards, but that's essentially just the same thing as an N64 game having the 'Expansion Pak Required' logo on the front, really. It's not being sold as something for a completely different console. This kind of categorization based on how the original manufacturer sold the game is common -- this is also why dual-mode Game Boy/GB Color games, that work in both consoles, are always called 'GBC games' in places that list them under just one platform, since the GBC is the system which Nintendo emphasized in the games' packaging and marketing.
So yes, there is a potential point to be made for these things being usually-unrecognized true add-ons. Going by price, what the first-party companies said, and whether they use different game input mechanisms they are not, but by the key checks of 'is it sold separately' and 'does it enhance the system in some way', they are. Generally I've gone with the standard definition for these and included them in the library, albeit with a note perhaps that the game supports or requires the expansion in question.
This whole argument is too big for me to keep up with, but just to toss in one thing about cart-coprocessors and mappers or whatever: The reason why these don't seem to me to be add-ons is because they're basically transparent to the user, and to me, the user's perspective is paramount. Aside from a fractional increase in price in some cases, there is no difference between buying and playing an "enhanced" cartridge and buying and playing an ordinary one.
This is what he does. The origin of the point of bringing up the special chips in the SNES carts, was completely lost because he brings the argument down to semantics, to the point where the original meaning is lost, and he can easily counter argue. It's like trying to hold a slippery fish. A Black Falcon is infamous for doing this on Sega-16, to the point where no one will take him seriously on anything he posts. We're talking pages upon pages of this kind of stuff.
Oh come on, that's an insane generalization, and it's not true at all. Also, insults instead of making actual points? That sounds indeed like something some Sega-16 people do... and it's always quite unfortunate.
I'm up for a good argument/debate and I'll probably agree on multiple points of view, even if I'm arguing just one of them. A lot of the time, these arguments are opinion and perspective based anyway. When arguing for credibility towards an opinion or perspective, getting into the nitty gritty of semantics always muddies the waters.
I like debate a lot, but the personal attacks often make me want to just ignore entire posts because of their presence...
I will say, though, that semantics DO matter. Sure, sometimes they don't really, but often they do. The way you classify something IS important. I would not argue semantics for no reason; I would do so because it matters.
The point of the argument is this; should the PC-Engine library include both hucard and CD games. The argument against it, is that the CD unit is an addon and therefore shouldn't be included. The reason for this perspective, is that the SegaCD and 32x (the most predominant addons in console history of successful systems, around that era).
No, it's because all addons have always been separated out of their base systems' libraries. That is not the reason.
And the main reason why gamers separate these addons as different game library, is that the addon hardware enhances the games to the point that they aren't representative of the original system's capability.
Nope, it's because they are separate pieces of hardware sold separately which play games via a separate mechanism from the main system and were sold and marketed as a different platform, as all addons always are (yes, including the Turbo CD).
This mostly comes from comparing one system to the other (it isn't a fair comparison). In the case of the PCE, this doesn't apply.
Of course it applies. The Turbo CD is an addon. That definition of Add-on from Wikipedia I linked? The Turbo CD fits in it perfectly. Your obsessive focus on addon chips has NOTHING TO DO with whether a thing is an addon or not! I get it that you two care about this, but it's immaterial to the point that that is not an essential part of the definition of add-on as is accepted by everyone other than you people.
PC-Engine CD games, are PCE games; there are no additional graphic processors, co-processors, or straight up new processors.
Doesn't matter.
The interface to the medium is different, the core game logic/code is the same. Another reason addons are considered to be a separate library, is that the addon always remained an addon.
Not really, no. The CDX, Laseractive + Mega LD, and X'eye/Wondermega did not turn the Sega CD into part of the Genesis. The Twin Famicom did not turn the FDS into part of the Famicom. Etc. If the games are a separate library anywhere on the system's ecosystem, they are a separate library! Period.
The addon is a branch of the system, therefore it's a branch of the library. It never replaced the core system; ever. In the perspective of 1988, the CD was an addon. In the perspective of 1992, the CD unit was the system. And if you look at the system from a perspective of 1996, hucards become the subset of the library - but they are still part of the PC-Engine library. Matter of fact, in 1992 when the Duo came out in the US (and I got one on release day), my perspective of hucards immediately changed to that - they became a subset of what was now CD games for the library. The Duo made it apparent; CD games were now the current format.
I've said this before, but the idea that you can change the definition of what is an addon mid-generation is wrong; you can't. Something is what it was from the beginning.
There's also this perspective that an addon was never intended to be part of the main system, or vision. That addons are always afterthoughts. And therefore it gives the addon even less credibility. That's not actually an unreasonable point of view. But the PCE system and CD unit were designed together. The CD unit was not some after thought down the road. And I'm sure the Famicom disk drive 'addon' probably had some sort of an influence to this.
But Hudson seems to have started working on the PCE hardware BEFORE they and/or NEC came up with the CD drive idea, so they were not designed starting at the same time. Sure, as far as addons go the Turbo CD has to be the most integrated one ever, and sure, it was worked on before the PCE released I am sure, but it doesn't seem to have actually existed as long as the PCE did, conceptually, and that does matter too.
By strict definition, by all means describe the CD unit as an addon. But when it comes categorizing the software for the PC-Engine, characteristics of the CD unit make it different than any other addon in console history. It's VERY hard to talk about PC-Engine games, without talking about hucards and CD games. If all you ever owned, was the hucard only system - then I can see why you wouldn't have this perspective. It's a different perspective for people that own(ed) the Duo, and gamers that grew up with both formats during that era. And for those of us that stuck through it till the end (imported).
The Turbo CD is the most successful game addon ever as far as adoption rates go. There is little question that that is true; the only way to challenge that, probably is, ironically enough, to count the Super System Card as an addon, as I discuss at the top of this post -- that surely had very high adoption rates in Japan. But as for the TCD itself, it started out as an addon, so it is an addon. You can't redefine things midstream, it does not work that way! Things are what they are.
For example, the existence of many Xbox 360 systems packed in with Kinects does not make the thing any less an optional accessory. Your definition-shifting mid-generation thing is something I really, really have a problem with.
What I am NOT doing is somehow slighting the Turbo CD library! Of course it's important, and large. The Turbo CD matters a lot, and sure, no discussion of the TG16 is complete without it. But, it IS an addon. Not everyone with a TG16 bought the CD drive, either in the US or Japan -- look at the numbers again, 3.92 million HuCard systems sold, 1.92 million CD systems, about a million of those Duo-line systems and the rest addon CD drives. And in the US, something like 900k TG16s sold, and maybe 100k at best CD units and Duos combined -- and it was probably below that (Vic Ireland said he thought 40k total CD+Duo, after all). In the US few people bought CD units, and even in Japan a large majority of HuCard system owners never bought a CD unit or Duo. An addon is something not included in the base system, that not everyone has. Only 33% of PC Engine owners had a CD drive, unless some people with PCEs bought Duos instead of CD addon drives. I'm sure many did, but not all. Any percentage there would be a made-up number, though, and I don't know what one to use.
But regardless, if my math is correct, somewhere between 33% and ~40% of PCE owners had CD drives, depending on how many HuCard system owners bought Duos but not CD units. That is a large percentage by addon terms, but it is NOT something universally owned by all PCE/TG16 owners. 30 or 40 percent is not everyone.
