Author Topic: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack  (Read 1583 times)

spenoza

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Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« on: May 31, 2014, 06:17:02 AM »
So, I'm a HUGE fan of Magical Chase's soundtrack, and while listening to a long YouTube playlist of the various musics I noticed something. The music doesn't appear to use any samples. All the percussion is chip-generated, for example. Not only is the composition extremely competent, but the technical accomplishment of generating such a high-quality soundtrack with no sampling only contributes to my respect for this game.
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Black Tiger

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2014, 07:52:28 AM »
Although I think Magical Chase's music is great and really compliments the game, there's a huge number of quality PCE chip soundtracks that are sample-free.
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spenoza

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2014, 11:47:58 AM »
I'm sure there are, but I just happened to be thinking about MC's greatness in this particular moment. Perhaps we should transform this thread into talking about awesome sample-free soundtracks in general.

I was also thinking about Arkhan's Squirrel and it's lack of ability to incorporate samples, and wondering which existing title soundtracks could fit within Squirrel's operational parameters.
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Black Tiger

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2014, 02:24:28 PM »
A while ago I was listening to pretty much every chip tune PCE soundtrack on my phone (via PCE.emu/Mednafen) and I found so many games which stood out for various reasons and planned to make notes at some point, thinking that I'd never forget. But it's all a blur now. :P

But Legend of Xanadu II is about as good as it gets and sounds like late 90's big budget Square RPG music, only without all the reverb and misc distortion, even though it's pure WSG sound without any samples:

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii46.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii50.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii51.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii10.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii19.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii20.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii23.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii27.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii34.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii40.mp3

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii48.mp3



Those are Winamp conversions and the music sounds much better on real hardware. No matter how much some of the instruments sound like they must be sampled, you can here how they aren't, by playing the game in Magic Engine and listening to each sound channel individually. Turning ADPCM off and on has no effect on the music. They saved it for all the sampled voice and sound effects.



Bloody Wolf is amazing overall and even the voices aren't sampled! :P

Aeroblasters, Bomberman '94 and Ys IV are similar to Magical Chase.

Aldynes features good drumming and sound/music in general and sounds like it isn't using samples.

Spin Pair might use a single drum beat sample, but it sounds so clear and similar to other soundtracks' beats done in pure WSG that I think it's most likely chip sound.
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roflmao

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2014, 03:00:53 PM »
But Legend of Xanadu II is about as good as it gets and sounds like late 90's big budget Square RPG music, only without all the reverb and misc distortion, even though it's pure WSG sound without any samples:

Thanks for posting these!  I'm listening to them now and the sound fantastic!

spenoza

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2014, 04:38:39 PM »
But Legend of Xanadu II is about as good as it gets and sounds like late 90's big budget Square RPG music, only without all the reverb and misc distortion, even though it's pure WSG sound without any samples:


http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii46.mp3



Are you sure the "tom toms" in that first track there aren't at all sampled? I mean, if they are they certainly aren't the best I've heard, but I am a little suspicious. Maybe I only feel that way because some of the rest of the music seems to drop out. Maybe it's just a more-than-one-channel effect...
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Tatsujin

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2014, 05:22:07 PM »
UNFREAKFARKTASTIC black tiger :D

thx :)
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TheOldMan

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2014, 05:25:24 PM »
Not sure exactly what you mean by 'sampled', but...

You can swap the waveforms (6 bits only) every frame. When we were doing squirrel, someone actually used a bunch of down-sampled ones to get a psuedo voice effect.
And you have envelopes to shape the sound (and more than just adsr :)

I can't think of a single game that actually used samples, unless they were adpcm clips....

Ask arkhan about it.  You can get some really nice effects just from the stock engine.

Black Tiger

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2014, 05:46:06 PM »
But Legend of Xanadu II is about as good as it gets and sounds like late 90's big budget Square RPG music, only without all the reverb and misc distortion, even though it's pure WSG sound without any samples:

http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii46.mp3




Are you sure the "tom toms" in that first track there aren't at all sampled? I mean, if they are they certainly aren't the best I've heard, but I am a little suspicious. Maybe I only feel that way because some of the rest of the music seems to drop out. Maybe it's just a more-than-one-channel effect...


I actually tested other tracks before, ones which sounded more likely to have been using samples, but now I'm not sure about this one. :P

It definitely isn't using adpcm, so if it is sampled, it would be the only CD game I've heard of using samples through regular PCE channels at all, but in this case also using all the rest for chip tunes while also using the adpcm channel for all other samples.

The other tracks I tested broke down to distinct chip sounds as I played each channel individually and each instrument sounded like WSG.

For this track (recording linked below), I played the boss fight in Magic Engine on my laptop and recorded the audio into my desktop PC. Once I gain control, I go into the menu screen to pause the fight while the music continues to play. I then turn off the channels one at a time until only the one playing the suspicious beat remains. Then I play each channel individually for a bit, so you can hear each instrument on their own. Then after playing the channel with the drum beat for a while, I turn the adpcm channel on and play the boss battle for a bit, giving you the contrast of good quality adpcm samples against that beat. Then the beat alone plays for a bit:
http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxiitest1.mp3
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 05:48:19 PM by Black Tiger »
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NightWolve

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2014, 05:48:44 PM »
http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/loxii48.mp3

This one is about the only one that I kinda liked out of that list.

Black Tiger

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2014, 05:59:04 PM »
For perspective, here is that beat channel from that LoXII track alternately playing with a similar sampled beat track from Fighting Run (recorded from real hardware):
http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/beatspce1.mp3



LINK FIXED!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 07:30:38 PM by Black Tiger »
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spenoza

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2014, 02:46:43 AM »
Yeah, I haven't meant ADPCM samples. I mean the higher quality 2-channel sampling the standard chip can do. I suspect you are correct, that they aren't using sampling. I guess I often end up with percussion lines stuck in my head that rely on brief drum samples. One of these days I'm going to figure out just how much this little chip is capable of. It is so often under- or mis-used that it's hard to know.
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esteban

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2014, 03:02:56 AM »
CLARIFY: So, I have been referring to PCE tunes as "PSG", but now I see "WSG" ...so please enlighten me because I want to be semi-informed when I use the terms. Thank you   
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ccovell

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2014, 04:45:11 AM »
PSG is a generalized term meaning "Programmable Sound Generator", of which you could say WSG is a subset.  PSG usually just means a simple sound chip that generates predefined, basic waveforms: square, triangle, sawtooth, and noise.

WSG is one of the terms that they use in Japan for "wavetable" synthesis; ie: there is definable sample RAM for a single period of a waveform, making for slightly more complex timbres than simple square waves, etc.

Anyway, about Magical Chase and other WSG soundtracks in general, I've just converted one of the articles in my Courage diskmag to HTML: http://www.chrismcovell.com/texts/TopPCEMusic.html .  In it I recommend several other musicians and give my top 30 PCE soundtracks.

esteban

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Re: Observation about Magical Chase's soundtrack
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2014, 05:24:00 AM »

PSG is a generalized term meaning "Programmable Sound Generator", of which you could say WSG is a subset.  PSG usually just means a simple sound chip that generates predefined, basic waveforms: square, triangle, sawtooth, and noise.

WSG is one of the terms that they use in Japan for "wavetable" synthesis; ie: there is definable sample RAM for a single period of a waveform, making for slightly more complex timbres than simple square waves, etc.

Anyway, about Magical Chase and other WSG soundtracks in general, I've just converted one of the articles in my Courage diskmag to HTML: http://www.chrismcovell.com/texts/TopPCEMusic.html .  In it I recommend several other musicians and give my top 30 PCE soundtracks.


Thank you clarifying PSG vs. WSG 


Also, once I finish feeding the kids lunch today, I'm going to read this diskmag in its entirety!

I did not realize that I had missed this much content from your site.
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