Author Topic: State of Israel to invade Gaza  (Read 648 times)

vestcoat

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2014, 10:28:56 AM »
Ariel Sharon is gone, but Zeta made a nice distinction between antisemitism vs. anti-Zionism a while back, by way of a discussion on RegalSin. 
I do vaguely remember some semi-racist stuff coming out of him a some point, but this Wiki describes him as both anti-semitic and "anti-zionist". Well, there is a huge difference between those two things. Anti-semitism is bullshit, anti-Zionism, depending on how far you take it of course, is a pretty mainstream. Most of the world basically falls into that camp, statistically speaking. Only Israel themselves and the more conservative Americans are without criticism of Israel. So, again, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser in this case. If he's talking about firing up the Jew furnaces again then f*ck him all to hell, but I'd be the first to call Ariel Sharon a genocidal piece of terrorist shit, because exactly what he is/was, and worse.
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MrBroadway

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2014, 06:11:19 AM »
It's just too bad that he had to throw out the genocide word when it really did not fit the situation. I guess not everyone is immune to HAMAS propaganda.

FWIW, HAMAS actually wants all Jews to die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter

I wonder if people would be sticking up for Nazis if, upon attacking Sudetenland, they were defeated and then greatly pushed back by Czech forces, losing Bavaria in the meantime.

BigusSchmuck

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2014, 08:15:29 AM »
This article nails the current situation and why hamas continues on:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/07/understanding-what-hamas-wants/374656/

whisper2053

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2014, 01:11:15 PM »
Just read this little piece on the matter. If even remotely true, it puts an interesting spin on things:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/383024/truth-about-gaza-charles-krauthammer

TheClash603

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2014, 06:31:21 PM »
Makes you wonder if the nazis had won WW2 if they still would be killing each other.


I just said this same thing to my friend a few days ago.  Not that I wanted Nazis to take over the world or to win WWII, but as a "What If?" scenario, I wonder what the Middle East would look like today if Hitler was successful.

In its current state, I think the creation of Israel in the location it was placed was a bad, but strategic idea.  Unfortunately, what has been done cannot be undone, we can't ask all of the Jews to be displaced and move to a new homeland now.  With that said, I think that it is only reasonable to support Israel in this situation, as they are the ones being attacked and discriminated against, they just have a very powerful return fire.

Too bad they didn't just give the Jews an area in the U.S. to make their homeland, I imagine much death and monetary loss would've been avoided.

esteban

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State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2014, 12:34:10 AM »
Makes you wonder if the nazis had won WW2 if they still would be killing each other.


I just said this same thing to my friend a few days ago.  Not that I wanted Nazis to take over the world or to win WWII, but as a "What If?" scenario, I wonder what the Middle East would look like today if Hitler was successful.

In its current state, I think the creation of Israel in the location it was placed was a bad, but strategic idea.  Unfortunately, what has been done cannot be undone, we can't ask all of the Jews to be displaced and move to a new homeland now.  With that said, I think that it is only reasonable to support Israel in this situation, as they are the ones being attacked and discriminated against, they just have a very powerful return fire.

Too bad they didn't just give the Jews an area in the U.S. to make their homeland, I imagine much death and monetary loss would've been avoided.

Israel is the powerful state that is guilty of widespread, institutionalized oppression. It is a formal policy (well, set of policies) developed over the years. Just examine the openly acknowledged policies and then decide if you feel comfortable supporting Israel. It's akin to supporting the US government during segregation, or South Africa during Apartheid. I'm not exaggerating or being dramatic when I bring up these examples. Seriously.

The one point that folks need to remember is that this is NOT an evenly matched dispute. Social, political, economic and military power is so overwhelmingly in the hands of Israel that it is absurd. And Israel has absolutely used and abused this power, in all of its forms, throughout this entire conflict.

I don't want either side killing, terrorizing, oppressing the other—but any way you measure things (human life, economic opportunity/prosperity, fertile land, quality of life, political rights, #injuries, body counts, civilian deaths, etc.)—Palestinians have consistently endured the worst of the worst, and it is totally disproportionate.

But I agree that what has been done can't be undone. That's a lesson that politicians should really be forced to deal with.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 12:36:42 AM by esteban »
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Punch

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2014, 12:03:21 PM »
The more I read the more I side with Israel, so please elucidate my ignorant self Esteban.

vestcoat

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2014, 12:32:38 PM »
What exactly are you reading that makes you sympathetic to Israel? What facts? Sources?
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Punch

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2014, 01:20:25 PM »
What exactly are you reading that makes you sympathetic to Israel? What facts? Sources?

Source: Jerusalem Post
lol joking. But I'm not trying to challenge the opinion of Esteban and impose my own, I'm reading up a lot about the history of the conflict and some news, I'm just genuinely curious. That's why I won't bother to post counters to his views.

ps: I'm also too lazy to gather the "sources" I read to post them :P
ps2: Why does Israel always conquers Lebanon in The Third World War (Sega CD)? And it is the hardest country to beat scenarios with.

NightWolve

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 03:18:44 PM »
Just read this little piece on the matter. If even remotely true, it puts an interesting spin on things:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/383024/truth-about-gaza-charles-krauthammer

Good read, I'm a NRO man myself as well. ;) Once in a while, I'll try to read a full article on there that catches my attention. This article by Charles also got referenced on Bill Maher's show too BTW:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jack-coleman/2014/07/21/moment-moral-clarity-bill-maher-israel-vs-hamas

I'm glad I opened this thread. It appears I'm the one with different opinion. I'll definitely check out some stuff mentioned.

Nah, I see it probably about the same way as you do, and I would guess whisper does as well if he's an NRO man. ;)

TheClash603

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2014, 04:10:16 PM »
I will admit that my best friend is Jewish (I am soon to be a best man in a Jewish wedding ceremony) and I worked in banking in NYC for a while so I have a lot of Jewish colleagues...

90% of what I know about the conflict is what I have heard from these individuals, so I can only imagine it is quite biased.  Perhaps some research is in order.

whisper2053

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2014, 09:26:19 AM »
Nah, I see it probably about the same way as you do, and I would guess whisper does as well if he's an NRO man. ;)

:D

Nando

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Re: State of Israel to invade Gaza
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2014, 09:39:22 AM »
Makes you wonder if the nazis had won WW2 if they still would be killing each other.


YES!