Author Topic: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25  (Read 2906 times)

A Black Falcon

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #75 on: September 19, 2014, 03:04:05 PM »
Just to remind folks: the TG-16 did not fail because it was harder to find in sparsely-populated areas. I'm totally biased, I know, since I live in NYC area, but, seriously, since TG-16 failed to gain traction in larger markets, the 13.5 people in Bumblefield, USA who would have purchased TG-16 had it been available—well, those 13.5 sales would not have made a significant difference.
Sure, that the system didn't sell well enough in the five target markets NEC focused on at first was a problem.  But this article makes it VERY, VERY clear that that wasn't why the system failed, not really!  That hurt a lot... but what killed it was that after it didn't sell up to expectations in those markets, NEC essentially stopped trying.  They never really pushed to get nationwide distribution.  They never put much money into advertising.  They refused to allow some major titles to release in the US because licensing fees would be too high. NEC's unwillingness to put in the money and effort required to compete in the US was the problem.

And sure, if they had done better in those first markets, maybe NEC could have been encouraged to try harder; the article definitely suggests this.  But giving up before most people in the US have moved to the next generation, NEC didn't even try.  Seriously, the article again and again makes the point that NEC shied away from spending the money that really competing nationwide in the US would have cost!  Even if their excuse was that the first target cities didn't see enough sales, that's just an excuse; who knows, maybe with a serious nationwide campaign they could have salvaged something more than they did.  Or maybe not, but at least they'd have tried.  Most Americans don't live only in a few big cities, America is a very spread-out nation.  You can't successfully sell a console if you're only aiming at New York City.

Sadler

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2014, 03:38:28 PM »
I found Turbo goods in lots of towns with populations of <10,000 - 20,000.

In 16-bit discussions like this, you have to always keep in mind that Black Falcon is going by factoids he read on the internet years later. What Turbo players experienced firsthand during the lifespan of the platform is of little merit.

I lived in the Denver metro area during the system launch. It was definitely everywhere and I could even rent games. When I moved to a town of ~15K in NM, there was nothing. Toys R Us in Sante Fe was the best bet, but the selection was awful. TZD was awesome when it came around. Good times borrowing my parents credit card to place an order via telephone that would take 6 weeks to arrive. :lol:

EDIT: I admit I haven't read some of the walls of text posted, but I find it interesting that the article never called out Nintendo for preventing titles from being released on the TG-16.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 03:40:27 PM by Sadler »

MrFulci

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2014, 03:47:04 PM »
Not to beat this into the ground even more, but I used catalogs a lot when i was younger.

The Sears Wishbooks, JCP, etc were ways to find things I may want, that weren't in stores (Black wolf roller coaster kit!), also to remind myself of things I had seen. I would make up my list for relatives and such based on what I saw in catalogs, in store, commercials, and through magazines, and this wasn't just video game stuff.

Special ordering games, was never an oddball thing for me. if it wasn't in a store, and I knew it was out there, my parents, and later myself, would call and track it down or have the store order it, or for some games try a used games store.

My feelings are, the TG-16 didn't catch on because there was so much already out there. TG should have been out there earlier.

Not to regurgitate it all again, but I had an Atari 2600, which was a bit before my time, but I had one. I had an NES. When I was to choose, what game system I wanted, as a 16-bit system, I looked at what my friends had that I could trade games with, we could play together, etc. Turbo Grafx, yes had Splatterhouse, Bloody Wolf, etc, but, I knew if plenty others with a Genesis, and soon, an SNES was being released, and I already knew of other friends who had that on their Christmas list, so I chose the SNES.

Next chance for a system, I got a genesis, since I knew of more people with that system, than a TG-16. After that, the Sega CD was added to the Genesis.

Finally, when I had more money of my own to spend, I got that Turbo grafx I had on the back-burner for years.

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nosorrow

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2014, 02:02:14 AM »
Indeed, catalog ordering was a big thing for any self-respecting 80s kid, lol. In my personal experience, I would show to my parents the games (1988-91) or Transformers/GI Joe/Star Wars figurines or ships (1983-87) I wanted for Christmas, my birthday or any other special occasion, and most often than not, they would order them from the catalog, be it from Sears or Consumers Distributing. So anyone who says catalog orders weren't common back in the 80s (and 70s also I'm pretty sure - I was born in 1977 so I don't know firsthand) has either a bad memory or is too Young too remember.

A Black Falcon

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2014, 06:56:04 PM »
Sure, catalogs existed -- I was born in the early '80s, no internet then!  However, my family was never one who bought stuff from them except in very rare occasions.  I'd choose things I wanted for birthday lists by going to stores and making a list while looking at the stuff there, usually.  Once I started reading videogame magazines, I'd choose games based on stuff I was interested in from reviews and such as well.  (I first read Nintendo Power, which our local library got and I read from the early '90s on, but started buying and then subscribing added computer gaming magazines in '96, and subscribed to PC Gamer for four years from '97 to '01.)  I do remember looking through Sears catalogs, Toys R Us ad flyers, etc. looking for games, but they usually seemed to only show a few things (with pictures and stuff, I mean!)... going to the actual store was better, you could look at the actual boxes!

But again, there never was a video game console that succeeded based on catalog sales.  It didn't happen.  If the only defense for national distribution is "but anyone could buy it from a catalog", I think that the point about how awful NEC and TTI's distribution was has already been very effectively made.

Did even anyone here buy TG16 stuff from catalogs during the system's life?  I mean Sears or what have you, not the TZD stuff post-death.

I found Turbo goods in lots of towns with populations of <10,000 - 20,000.
I imagine that this would depend on where they were.  NEC's distribution was of course extremely spotty.

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In 16-bit discussions like this, you have to always keep in mind that Black Falcon is going by factoids he read on the internet years later.
How absurd... of course, the best answer to this is the obvious one, that you don't have to experienced events in order to know something about them.  Almost all of the writing of history is based on this fact; I have a masters' in history, so I should know.

But even beyond that, I was around then, of course.  Sure, I only played a TG16 once myself, but I read about it in magazines, etc.  It was something I heard about a few times, unlike the Sega Master System, which I have absolutely no memory of ever hearing about at all during its life, or even for a long time after it.  For the TG16, I remember seeing comparisons of Sonic v. Mario World v. Bonk, and the Johnny Turbo ads as well.

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What Turbo players experienced firsthand during the lifespan of the platform is of little merit.
As they say, eyewitness testimony is not always reliable.  What is reliable are overall trends, facts, numbers, proof of things.  Proof like the actual number of systems sold, which we finally know thanks to this article.  Of course peoples' stories are important too, though.  Certainly.  And that is there in this article, or at least in the author's other article, which is, as I say below, his personal story about his liking and owning the system during its life.  The author is someone who experienced the system firsthand during its lifetime. :)

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Like people who started saying for a while that Magical Chase was mail-order only and one of the rarest Turbo games. If the many of us who walked into the many stores selling Turbo goods at the time weren't ruining the hype with our unbelievable tall tales, MC could be hyped/gouged even further.
With distribution as poor as NEC's was, and with how much worse it got under TTI thanks to their limited funds, this should be entirely understandable.  It's not about "tall tales", it's about that for a lot of people, even in areas which had TG16 stuff for a while, by mid '93 it was gone, and from that point on games did indeed seem to be mail order only.  As one of the very last HuCard releases, it does seem quite likely that Magical Chase shipped in small numbers.  Of course it was available in some places, though; it wasn't until the last couple of games that it seems to have really gone mail order only.  Based on this article, I'd mostly suspect the two '94 releases, Godzilla and The Dynastic Hero, for that.  Unless anyone here actually managed to find copies of those games in stores back then, and can prove otherwise?  I would imagine that it was a slow progression over time though, as stores that had been carrying it gradually abandoned the system due to low sales.

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I haven't had time to comment properly on the Gamasutra article, but it is only really useful for people already familiar with the history of the platform.
That may help, but no, this really is not true.

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The quotes are entertaining to read, but there's lots of bs'ing, especially by Johnny Turbo and it's unfortunately all put together by someone not familiar with the system and has an agenda to portray it negatively.
Someone may have an agenda here, but it's not the author of that article, that's for sure!  As you'd know if you read the other article, about his personal history with the system, the guy posted (also linked here, in another thread), you'd know that the author was a Turbografx fan, and did own the system during its life, and the Turbo CD, and the Duo.  He even says that Ys I & II is his favorite game.  So no.  No anti-Turbo bias by the author, certainly.  Just reality.

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A stream of quotes with descriptions of who's who without the spin would have been much better and not contributed to furthering misconceptions.
The only major misconception that the article furthers is the "8-bit" thing.  I haven't seen anything else mentioned of note.

Necromancer

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2014, 06:22:52 AM »
Black Falcon's gonna derp.

If the only defense for national distribution is "but anyone could buy it from a catalog", I think that the point about how awful NEC and TTI's distribution was has already been very effectively made.

That isn't the only defense.  Do you really think that of all those stores that had it in their catalogs that none of 'em carried the games in stores too?!?  Of course they did.  How many of us have now chimed in and said that we bought games locally yet didn't live in one of the five select markets or huge cities?

Did even anyone here buy TG16 stuff from catalogs during the system's life?  I mean Sears or what have you, not the TZD stuff post-death.

I did, having the game shipped to the store.  Earlier, my ma and pa bought a 2600 and a dozen or so games almost entirely through catalogs as well, but so what?  No doubt you'll dismiss this as 'unreliable anecdotes' anyway.

As they say, eyewitness testimony is not always reliable.

Because it's impossible for TG-16 games to have been available out here in cornland and nobody has ever bought a game via mail order ever, I'm obviously lying.  The truth is that I started amassing my collection just two years ago..... you got me.

With distribution as poor as NEC's was, and with how much worse it got under TTI thanks to their limited funds, this should be entirely understandable.

The initial guess of it being mail order is understandable.  What is not understandable is people stating it as fact (and even that it was never sold in Canada) and people still believing it to be true.
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Black Tiger

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2014, 07:35:12 AM »
In the same small town I grew up in, where I had multiple local sources for Turbo goods and where I bought no less than 30 Turbo games while they were current, plus a TG-16, TurboExpress and TurboDuo at launch prices... I had to mail order both of the Genesis games I bought during its first year, because Genesis games were both slow to trickle out and had a limited selection of variety. That and the fact that no more stores carried Genesis games than Turbo during the first year or so.

As goes without saying: don't rely on wikipedia for your facts.

As for the credibility of myself and others with firsthand accounts, I've been discussing Turbo/PCE online since 1996. Not only is everything I say about my experiences true, I've gotten to know so many Turbo fans over the past couple decades whose accounts I can rightfully trust. While Black Falcon was fooling around with his first console, many of us Turbo fans across the world were sharing our experiences while they were still fresh in our minds.

This is what's so dangerous about popular sites/mags/video stars casually passing around misinformation like this. It only adds fuel to the fire of revisionists whose entire knowledge is built entirely on what they heard that someone once heard that someone thinks that someome said that they saw a site that had a story that was really just pulled out of someone's ass and based on a negative bias.
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A Black Falcon

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2014, 01:29:08 PM »
Seriously, do you even have a real point?  We now know how the system actually sold, thanks to people from NEC itself.  We've always known that NEC's distribution and marketing in the US were atrocious.  Sure, it was available in some stores here and there, but not nearly enough of them, and in many cases probably not for very long; the article is great at describing how after not seeing the initial target-market success they wanted NEC US never gave the system the full-fledged support it badly deserved.

In the same small town I grew up in, where I had multiple local sources for Turbo goods and where I bought no less than 30 Turbo games while they were current, plus a TG-16, TurboExpress and TurboDuo at launch prices... I had to mail order both of the Genesis games I bought during its first year, because Genesis games were both slow to trickle out and had a limited selection of variety. That and the fact that no more stores carried Genesis games than Turbo during the first year or so.

As goes without saying: don't rely on wikipedia for your facts.
Nobody should ever rely only on Wikipedia, certainly.  I don't, and I would hope others wouldn't as well.  The article in the OP sure doesn't, it's very obviously based on original research.

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As for the credibility of myself and others with firsthand accounts, I've been discussing Turbo/PCE online since 1996. Not only is everything I say about my experiences true, I've gotten to know so many Turbo fans over the past couple decades whose accounts I can rightfully trust. While Black Falcon was fooling around with his first console, many of us Turbo fans across the world were sharing our experiences while they were still fresh in our minds.
Why do you like to make up stuff?  I was mostly a PC gamer in the '90s, not console.  I was playing computer games mostly, that and Game Boy.  '90s PC gaming is the best gaming has ever been... :)

Anyway, facts matter a lot more than any personal account.  A personal account is only one persons' story, and the fact is, they are NOT reliable.  This is why courts always strongly prefer evidence to eyewitness testimony, when having to determine who committed a crime.  But even if a personal account of a console IS reliable, it's pretty much irrelevant on a nationwide or worldwide level.  Just because you found TG16 stuff in your area does not under any circumstances mean that things were similar for other people.  Personal accounts of how available various consoles were in their area are interesting stories, nothing more.  This isn't just my opinion, it's the opinion of anyone who wants to focus on an accurate assessment of how things are overall.  "Personal experiences mean nothing" is commonly heard in game sales discussions elsewhere on the internet.

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This is what's so dangerous about popular sites/mags/video stars casually passing around misinformation like this. It only adds fuel to the fire of revisionists whose entire knowledge is built entirely on what they heard that someone once heard that someone thinks that someome said that they saw a site that had a story that was really just pulled out of someone's ass and based on a negative bias.
I know you clearly are ignoring my actual words, but there is no revisionist history or negative bias in that article, which is what this thread is about.  Quite the opposite, it's the best picture of what it was actually like inside NEC US and TTI that we've ever gotten, and it was written by a journalist who was a big fan of the system in the early '90s.  What you're saying here is ridiculous compared to reality.  And of course, most of what I've said in this thread is just to say that I think the article is accurate, so I'm not being "revisionist" either.

Of course, it's also not "revisionist" to say that no console has ever succeeded which had poor national distribution and relied as much on catalog ordering as it did in-store sales.  And that we now know that the previous guesstimate of US TG16 sales, 900,000, actually is far too high and the system actually sold somewhere between 550,000 and 650,000 in the US and Canada, with 750,000 total being manufactured for the Americas, shows this even more strongly than ever.

That isn't the only defense.  Do you really think that of all those stores that had it in their catalogs that none of 'em carried the games in stores too?!?  Of course they did.  How many of us have now chimed in and said that we bought games locally yet didn't live in one of the five select markets or huge cities?
I didn't say that.  I mean, here the system could be found at Toys R Us, so it was available SOMEWHERE physically, if not much of anywhere else.  It just wasn't all that many places, while the SNES and Genesis were very widely available.  (For the Genesis, this particularly would be for '91 and beyond; before Sonic, the system wasn't nearly as successful as it would become afterwards, of course.)

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Because it's impossible for TG-16 games to have been available out here in cornland and nobody has ever bought a game via mail order ever, I'm obviously lying.  The truth is that I started amassing my collection just two years ago..... you got me.
Once again, I didn't say that.  You're reading things into my posts I didn't say or imply.  Of course a few stores here and there carried the system, and of course a small number of people ordered games by mail order.  "Few" and "small" are the key terms, however, as the system's very poor sales show; 650,000 systems sold at most, plus 20k+ Duos, is very poor for a system on the market for 3 1/2 years!  If NEC had shelled out the cash to get better distribution, get in most stores that carried Nintendo and Sega as this article and pretty much all personal recollections I've ever read about the system agree they did not, and had actually tried to market it, it surely would not have sold such small numbers.

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The initial guess of it being mail order is understandable.  What is not understandable is people stating it as fact (and even that it was never sold in Canada) and people still believing it to be true.
Finding proof about the distribution of those later releases seems to have proven to be very difficult, you know.  Sure, Magical Chase probably was sold in stores, yes, but how few copies was it... must not have been many.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 01:31:54 PM by A Black Falcon »

KingDrool

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #83 on: September 22, 2014, 02:58:54 PM »
Not to change the topic, but...

With all this talk about how the TG16 tanked and NEC not being too enthused about continuing in the console market, it'd be really cool if someone did similar in-depth retrospective on the PC-FX. I'd love to know some inside info on how that got off the ground. Granted, it'd likely be a short article. But still...
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esteban

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New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2014, 03:23:43 PM »
That isn't the only defense.  Do you really think that of all those stores that had it in their catalogs that none of 'em carried the games in stores too?!?  Of course they did.  How many of us have now chimed in and said that we bought games locally yet didn't live in one of the five select markets or huge cities?
I didn't say that.  I mean, here the system could be found at Toys R Us, so it was available SOMEWHERE physically, if not much of anywhere else.  It just wasn't all that many places, while the SNES and Genesis were very widely available.  (For the Genesis, this particularly would be for '91 and beyond; before Sonic, the system wasn't nearly as successful as it would become afterwards, of course.)

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Because it's impossible for TG-16 games to have been available out here in cornland and nobody has ever bought a game via mail order ever, I'm obviously lying.  The truth is that I started amassing my collection just two years ago..... you got me.
Once again, I didn't say that.  You're reading things into my posts I didn't say or imply.  Of course a few stores here and there carried the system, and of course a small number of people ordered games by mail order.  "Few" and "small" are the key terms, however, as the system's very poor sales show; 650,000 systems sold at most, plus 20k+ Duos, is very poor for a system on the market for 3 1/2 years!  If NEC had shelled out the cash to get better distribution, get in most stores that carried Nintendo and Sega as this article and pretty much all personal recollections I've ever read about the system agree they did not, and had actually tried to market it, it surely would not have sold such small numbers.
[/quote]

I take issue with the last sentence.

Dude, please re-read my prior post: Turbo DID NOT FAIL because of national distribution. It could have been available in every Bumblefield town in RURAL U.S.A. and it WOULD HAVE FAILED because there aren't enough customers in all the Bumblefields combined to make a significant difference to overall sales (more sales? Yes. Significant sales to convince NEC to fight for America? No.

A separate issue, of course, is that TG-16 never had the "X factor" of its competitors (brand recognition of console, brand recognition of software franchises, highly effective advertising campaigns, game library appealing to North American tastes...sports fans loved Genesis, after all, etc. etc).

TG-16 was the Windows tablet of console war...IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY MILLIONS OF $$$ Microsoft spent in marketing, it gained no traction.
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A Black Falcon

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2014, 04:53:07 PM »
That isn't the only defense.  Do you really think that of all those stores that had it in their catalogs that none of 'em carried the games in stores too?!?  Of course they did.  How many of us have now chimed in and said that we bought games locally yet didn't live in one of the five select markets or huge cities?
I didn't say that.  I mean, here the system could be found at Toys R Us, so it was available SOMEWHERE physically, if not much of anywhere else.  It just wasn't all that many places, while the SNES and Genesis were very widely available.  (For the Genesis, this particularly would be for '91 and beyond; before Sonic, the system wasn't nearly as successful as it would become afterwards, of course.)

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Because it's impossible for TG-16 games to have been available out here in cornland and nobody has ever bought a game via mail order ever, I'm obviously lying.  The truth is that I started amassing my collection just two years ago..... you got me.
Once again, I didn't say that.  You're reading things into my posts I didn't say or imply.  Of course a few stores here and there carried the system, and of course a small number of people ordered games by mail order.  "Few" and "small" are the key terms, however, as the system's very poor sales show; 650,000 systems sold at most, plus 20k+ Duos, is very poor for a system on the market for 3 1/2 years!  If NEC had shelled out the cash to get better distribution, get in most stores that carried Nintendo and Sega as this article and pretty much all personal recollections I've ever read about the system agree they did not, and had actually tried to market it, it surely would not have sold such small numbers.

I take issue with the last sentence.

Dude, please re-read my prior post: Turbo DID NOT FAIL because of national distribution. It could have been available in every Bumblefield town in RURAL U.S.A. and it WOULD HAVE FAILED because there aren't enough customers in all the Bumblefields combined to make a significant difference to overall sales (more sales? Yes. Significant sales to convince NEC to fight for America? No. [/quote]
I did read your previous post, but it's completely wrong.  Most Americans do not live in only a few major markets.  In the US you DO need to compete nationwide.  I don't like your tone that insults pretty much everywhere that isn't a major city; those parts of America are large, and make up a lot of the country.  And even the urban areas are, in most of America, spread out -- there's nothing in the US like Tokyo, with that many people concentrated into such a small area.  No, to compete NEC absolutely did have to compete throughout the country.  That's what every successful console has done.  The NES would not be the NES if Nintendo only put much effort into that New York test market in '85 and let distribution everywhere else be badly scattershot, with poor marketing. 

Of course, I imagine you'll say that Nintendo's test market was a success while NEC's was a failure, but again, as I said in the beginning, with an earlier release (NOT releasing after the Genesis!), better marketing, better packin game, etc. NEC could have been more successful too.  And even with the mediocre showing in the test markets, with a serious nationwide marketing and distribution push like Nintendo and Sega did, the TG16 would certainly have sold better than it did.  I absolutely believe that very few people are going to buy a console that they very rarely see in person.  You do not succeed in America by only putting a strong effort in urban areas.  You just don't, and you're seriously underestimating that fact.

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A separate issue, of course, is that TG-16 never had the "X factor" of its competitors (brand recognition of console, brand recognition of software franchises, highly effective advertising campaigns, game library appealing to North American tastes...sports fans loved Genesis, after all, etc. etc).
This is true, yes.  The TG16 didn't have Sonic and sports games like the Genesis, or Mario and Nintendo's third parties (Square, Capcom, etc.) like the SNES.  And it definitely hurt for that.  But of course, part of this is because of how cheap and ineffective NEC was at finding Western third-party support; for the Genesis Western support was absolutely key to its success here, but the article did a good job of showing how poor NEC's was in comparison.  Slighting EA while you sign with Cinemaware was not a great idea...

Of course the other problem is that the system was mostly popular in Japan from '88 to '91, and faded after that, while the generation didn't really get going here UNTIL '91.  And that is an issue; even with an earlier release and better marketing, perhaps the system would have started sputtering in '91 after Sonic and the SNES release.  It also hurt that Western consumers were more price-conscious and the game library was limited, so the expensive CD addon which NEC focused on in the '90s didn't sell much.  But even with those issues, the system easily could have sold several times what it did, and lasted longer overall; after Bonk, Rondo of Blood has to be the system's biggest potential system-seller.

Seriously, even if the library wasn't ideal for the West, there were more than enough quality games to compete from '88 to '91, and after that the TCD should have been able to hold its own against the Sega CD, at least.

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TG-16 was the Windows tablet of console war...IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY MILLIONS OF $$$ Microsoft spent in marketing, it gained no traction.
You don't know this because NEC didn't try.

Not to change the topic, but...

With all this talk about how the TG16 tanked and NEC not being too enthused about continuing in the console market, it'd be really cool if someone did similar in-depth retrospective on the PC-FX. I'd love to know some inside info on how that got off the ground. Granted, it'd likely be a short article. But still...
NEC thought that anime FMV was the future and pulled a system Hudson had designed back in '92 as a video playback-centric design off the shelf in '94 and shipped it as their new console. It didn't work out.

Necromancer

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2014, 05:36:27 AM »
Seriously, do you even have a real point?

Do you?  You're all over the map with your bullshit.  I repeat: it's a fact that the system was available nationwide from several retailers, as opposed to the myth that it was only available in a handful of select cities (or mail order only as you're insisting).  Don't twist that into an argument that it was as widely available as the SNES or Genesis, because we all know it wasn't.

Finding proof about the distribution of those later releases seems to have proven to be very difficult, you know.

The burden of proof goes both ways, dumbass.

I did read your previous post, but it's completely wrong.  Most Americans do not live in only a few major markets.  In the US you DO need to compete nationwide.  I don't like your tone that insults pretty much everywhere that isn't a major city; those parts of America are large, and make up a lot of the country.

Nearly 175 million people live in metropolitan areas of 1 million plus residents, which is 55% of the population; stretch it out to metros of 500k and up and you'll include right at 2/3 the nation.  Thanks for failing.

there's nothing in the US like Tokyo, with that many people concentrated into such a small area.

Population Density:
Tokyo  -  16,000/sq mi
New York City  -  27,778.7/sq mi

Try researching your "facts" next time.
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_joshuaTurbo

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2014, 05:53:26 AM »
I found Turbo goods in lots of towns with populations of <10,000 - 20,000.
I rented TG games and purchased them after the rental stores decided to sell them off. :)  I live in a town of <10,000
As for the credibility of myself and others with firsthand accounts, I've been discussing Turbo/PCE online since 1996. Not only is everything I say about my experiences true, I've gotten to know so many Turbo fans over the past couple decades whose accounts I can rightfully trust. While Black Falcon was fooling around with his first console, many of us Turbo fans across the world were sharing our experiences while they were still fresh in our minds.
The Turbo Pages and Turbo List?  Damn I miss the Turbo Pages...

Black Tiger

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2014, 06:30:28 AM »
I found Turbo goods in lots of towns with populations of <10,000 - 20,000.
I rented TG games and purchased them after the rental stores decided to sell them off. :)  I live in a town of <10,000
As for the credibility of myself and others with firsthand accounts, I've been discussing Turbo/PCE online since 1996. Not only is everything I say about my experiences true, I've gotten to know so many Turbo fans over the past couple decades whose accounts I can rightfully trust. While Black Falcon was fooling around with his first console, many of us Turbo fans across the world were sharing our experiences while they were still fresh in our minds.
The Turbo Pages and Turbo List?  Damn I miss the Turbo Pages...

Places like the Unofficial Duo Page, TurboGrafx Network, Turbo Compendium, etc. The Turbo List was unavailable for me (to post in) for the first few years I was online with only my Saturn and then I was using my DC for a year or two after that before I got my first PC. Early on, after befriending people, we'd often chat through email about Turbo stuff. It seemed like forever that Tengai Makyou II was one of the rarest and most sought after PCE games. Now most English speaking Turbo fans can't be bothered with Japanese RPGs.
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DragonmasterDan

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Re: New Gamasutra Article - TG16 Turns 25
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2014, 06:48:15 AM »


Places like the Unofficial Duo Page, TurboGrafx Network, Turbo Compendium, etc. The Turbo List was unavailable for me (to post in) for the first few years I was online with only my Saturn and then I was using my DC for a year or two after that before I got my first PC. Early on, after befriending people, we'd often chat through email about Turbo stuff. It seemed like forever that Tengai Makyou II was one of the rarest and most sought after PCE games. Now most English speaking Turbo fans can't be bothered with Japanese RPGs.

Heh, I used the Saturn netlink as well.

With regard to Tengai II, I picked it up in the late 90s at a pretty high price. I found a geocities site that had a mini guide entirely in Japanese and was able to play through it that way and get past the part where I needed to enter Japanese characters. I also picked up Kabuki-den which I didn't play through until years later when I saw your guide for it.
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