Author Topic: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"  (Read 3558 times)

Black Tiger

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #135 on: December 11, 2014, 04:00:27 AM »
I think we're all pretty much saying the same thing here, everyone hates someone for something.    :D  People take advantage of other people's work everyday, so at the end of the day, you have to do what you can to protect what you create or someone will surely come along at some point and use it for their own advantage. If Tobi gets sued to hell, that's on him, he took that risk. Were all sinners calling out other sinners, just strive to not be a hypocrite.  From a gamer standpoint, were not talking about buying DVDs or CDs that are still in stores and retail for $10-$20, and I'm being a cheap prick and I only want to pay 2 for $5 to the local bootlegger. Were talking about 25+ year old games games that sell for $500 to $1000 on Ebay because x amount of copies are in existence and y amount of people would actually like to enjoy them without forgoing their mortgage.

Anyways, on the topic of Xak III and Ys IV English versions in a nice package, that would surely be something I would buy.   :-"

The person who organized and worked on the dub for Ys IV and worked on the English translation of Drac X had said many times that if anyone does a pressing for either or even contacts the various rights holders about licensing out an official pressing, that they will never do another PCE project.

The PCE Works/everanime/misc guy sold the bootlegs of Sapphire for "mortgage" prices for a long time and told many different lies about their authenticity. He sold his Space Fantasy Zone cdrs for something like $150 - $200 each. The first forum member to eventually bite the bullet and buy one to let us know what you get for that kind of money, only did so after he finally managed to haggle the price down to only $100.
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Bonknuts

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #136 on: December 11, 2014, 04:34:49 AM »
(Wall of text)

I didn't want make this into a debate about ethics, legality, and everything in between. I just wanted to provide a point of view from the other side, regardless of what's right or wrong and what's technically legal or not. Basically, the effect it can have on the homebrew/hacker/coder/whatever. I did contact Tobias. He explained that he purchased it as a prototype from Japan Yahoo actions. And I did see the auction (there were two, one went for $1500 IIRC). Basically, there was no legal recourse I could take. He offered me (either money or copies) in return, but I declined. Sure, I'm providing the rom/game on my site (even if altered) and in that respect contributing to the supposed loss Capcom endures from pirates roms (measure that how ever you will), but I can't in good conscience take money for this. My work, although my own, cannot be separated from the game itself. Technically, I could probably sell the 'patch' (you dump your own cart), but that's not the same thing nor desirable as owning a professional package or pressed CD. I didn't expect him to not sure what he already put money up for (cost of production, cost to have the manual/covers/art developed), but I did expect him not to publish any more (or any of my other stuff). To this day, he has not AFAIK. I did request something in return from him; that since he profited from community work  - he should give back to the community; I asked that he make the covers and manuals free to download for the community. I never got a reply back, and he never did this. So there's your story (to the best of my memory).

 I've said this before and I'll say it again, I don't hold any grudges for any gamer that purchased the copy of MM. I understand the desire to have package game like that VS just some CD-R (although his turned out to be just CD-Rs in the end anyway). I understand that many gamers tend to look at this as a 'service' to the retro gaming community. That's debatable. I'm also not against doing a community pressing either (something non-for-profit). I do understand that some will attempt to resell it for more or whatever. I'm not concerned with that; you do what you want with your own property. If it got to the point of that getting out of hand, then I simply wouldn't do/allow anymore. If I work on a joint project with someone though, I can't speak for them.

 Anyway, stepping outside of all of this - I find it this discussion/debate about providing services VS amount of profit involved.. fascinating. Nothing is ever black and white. A what point does making too much profit negate the protecting status of 'just providing services to the community'. I definitely don't have a clear answer, to where that point should fall.

(sorry in advance for any grammar mistakes; wrote this right before class)

sniper

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #137 on: December 11, 2014, 06:18:26 AM »
I have no ethical qualms with what Tobias is doing; no one was stopping others from bringing a similar product to market.

I run a blog, and if someone decided to copy the entirety of it and publish it in book form for profit, I wouldn't be butt hurt; I'd be proud that my stuff was out there for an expanded audience, even if I personally never saw a dime from it.

Bonknuts

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #138 on: December 11, 2014, 06:50:53 AM »
I have no ethical qualms with what Tobias is doing; no one was stopping others from bringing a similar product to market.

I run a blog, and if someone decided to copy the entirety of it and publish it in book form for profit, I wouldn't be butt hurt; I'd be proud that my stuff was out there for an expanded audience, even if I personally never saw a dime from it.

 So, since your content was free - then it doesn't matter that someone else profited from your work or took control of it (in a manner of speaking)? What if your content was paid-to-view or such type of revenue generating service? What if the content was altered by said publisher, in a way that you didn't like? Would those circumstances change your opinion?

Black Tiger

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #139 on: December 11, 2014, 06:55:56 AM »
I have no ethical qualms with what Tobias is doing; no one was stopping others from bringing a similar product to market.

I run a blog, and if someone decided to copy the entirety of it and publish it in book form for profit, I wouldn't be butt hurt; I'd be proud that my stuff was out there for an expanded audience, even if I personally never saw a dime from it.

Holy crap. Nightwolf not being happy with his Ys translation work being sold to a publisher without his permission, Burnt Lasagna not wanting translated projects he worked on to be sold, Arkhan not thanking Roy for flipping pre-release cdr copies for hundreds of dollars, Tomatheous's hindsight of the NES to PCE project after Rockman is sold for proft, etc.

Everyone's real problem is just that their "butthurt" when really they should be grateful.
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Necromancer

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #140 on: December 11, 2014, 07:05:46 AM »
I have no ethical qualms with what Tobias is doing; no one was stopping others from bringing a similar product to market.

I run a blog, and if someone decided to copy the entirety of it and publish it in book form for profit, I wouldn't be butt hurt; I'd be proud that my stuff was out there for an expanded audience, even if I personally never saw a dime from it.

Go f*ck yourself.
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sniper

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #141 on: December 11, 2014, 07:23:32 AM »
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Everyone's real problem is just that their "butthurt" when really they should be grateful.
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Go f*ck yourself

Hah, you guys are too emotional-- can you think logically for five seconds?

Instead of sitting here complaining, why don't you go make your own release, and undercut Tobias on price if you can?

I think he's offering a valuable service and product. I'm more than happy to part with my money at the price he's asking. If you can provide a better product, then I'll be more than happy to buy yours instead.

TheOldMan

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #142 on: December 11, 2014, 07:26:44 AM »
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Instead of sitting here complaining, why don't you go make your own release, and undercut Tobias on price if you can?

Because we have ethics. Two wrongs do not make a right.

(Three rights make a left, though :) )

KingDrool

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #143 on: December 11, 2014, 07:27:08 AM »
I think you've completely missed the point, man. By...a mile.

Nobody seems to be upset with what Tobias is currently offering. What they are upset about is taking their work, completely misrepresenting it, and selling it for a profit.
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ClodBuster

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #144 on: December 11, 2014, 07:29:37 AM »
Go f*ck yourself.
When Necro once told me to do that, I was bitching around at first. But eventually I took my lesson and learned from my mistake.

He wasn't even moderating back then.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 07:33:49 AM by ClodBuster »

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esteban

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #145 on: December 11, 2014, 07:51:43 AM »

I have no ethical qualms with what Tobias is doing; no one was stopping others from bringing a similar product to market.

I run a blog, and if someone decided to copy the entirety of it and publish it in book form for profit, I wouldn't be butt hurt; I'd be proud that my stuff was out there for an expanded audience, even if I personally never saw a dime from it.

Go f*ck yourself, again.
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sniper

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #146 on: December 11, 2014, 08:14:01 AM »
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What they are upset about is taking their work, completely misrepresenting it, and selling it for a profit.

No no, I get that! But translating some obscure, thirty year old Japanese video game doesn't entitle you to anything, least of all the back of some moral high horse.

If you want to make money, go offer a product or service whereby people are willing to part with their hard-earned money. Don't get angry at someone else for offering value where you either won't or can't. That's called envy.

Necromancer

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #147 on: December 11, 2014, 08:19:29 AM »
No no, I get that! But translating some obscure, thirty year old Japanese video game doesn't entitle you to anything, least of all the back of some moral high horse.

If you want to make money, go offer a product or service whereby people are willing to part with their hard-earned money. Don't get angry at someone else for offering value where you either won't or can't. That's called envy.

You're obviously a moron.

The only thing of true value that tobias is offering is the content on the disc, which wouldn't exist without people like Tom.  Don't try to say I'm wrong, as we all know you wouldn't pay more than a couple bucks if it was just the case, manual, and a blank disc.
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esteban

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PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #148 on: December 11, 2014, 08:25:16 AM »
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What they are upset about is taking their work, completely misrepresenting it, and selling it for a profit.


No no, I get that! But translating some obscure, thirty year old Japanese video game doesn't entitle you to anything, least of all the back of some moral high horse.

If you want to make money, go offer a product or service whereby people are willing to part with their hard-earned money. Don't get angry at someone else for offering value where you either won't or can't. That's called envy.


I thought only the profiteer could kill the enthusiasm of the PCE hack/homebrew community.

I was wrong.

Troglodytes like you also kill it.

I hope, however, that one day you will develop the capacity to understand this issue. This issue cannot be reduced to economic principles and market dynamics.

Read this:

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18032.msg383946#msg383946

And provide a thoughtful, considered response. I eagerly await your contribution to the discussion. Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 08:27:34 AM by esteban »
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sniper

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Re: PCE Memories "Turbo Duo Edition"
« Reply #149 on: December 11, 2014, 08:38:27 AM »
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I hope, however, that one day you will develop the capacity to understand this issue.

Hah, no arrogance here! Oh yes, I bow before you oh enlightened one...

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Troglodytes like you also kill it.

...one so enlightened you resort to ad hominem attacks to make your point.  :clap: Obviously you have no substantive argument other than raw emotion.

So who is the enlightened one?