Dracula X and YS IV English Manuals

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm move comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

That said. I thought it was a really cool idea and if I had the money I'd be a buyer. Kudos for actually doing it.

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

[Brraap]

 For the people that havent seen the disc's. These are not just stick on labels.

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

[Brraap]

[/quote]
Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.
[/quote]

I understand your perspective on it, but my perspective is, give people what they want, if they want
just the manual and inserts and cd tray, cool. If they want the disc along with it, cool. If they want the disc blank (with no data) and want to burn it themselves, cool. I cant make everyone happy, but I dont see any harm in giving them a nice disc to go along with the rest of it.

looks like i need a lesson on quotes......

[esteban]

TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical

Exactly.

[Gentlegamer]

For the people that havent seen the disc's. These are not just stick on labels.

R@R3! L@@K! UNRELEASED ENGLISH PROTOTYPE OF DRACULA X!!

This is the version that Konami was going to release in North America if the Turbo Duo had sold better. It was eventually released as part of the PSP Dracula X Chronicles. Now you can own this rare prototype, never released at retail! Only three known to exist! BIN $5,000.00

[NightWolve]

TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical

Heh, that's gotta be your most clever burn yet around here to my knowledge.

Tangent: Just posted this on my new Windows 8.1 10" tablet (Black Friday score) and I can't believe how fast it is, fast enough to handle a damn browser at the very least. Yay, I'm happy with it! My 7" cheap Android tablet was driving me insane with its bugs, slowdowns, etc. None of the damn browsers ever worked properly on it. None, bugs everywhere and turtle operating speeds so much so I wanted to break the thing in half! Never have I been so happy to get rid of a computing device, sorry to say! /end tangent

Well, esteban means well and the history of bootleggers continues to be shady, so it's understandable... I had a bit of a negative reaction admittedly when I randomly ran into brraap on Facebook, but I didn't really feel like starting a fight over it. If Ys IV is sold at cost then I guess that's that.

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

[jtucci31]

TESTEBAN: The Ethical Testical

Heh, that's gotta be your most clever burn yet around here to my knowledge.

Well, esteban means well and the history of bootleggers continues to be shady, so it's understandable... I had a bit of a negative reaction admittedly when I randomly ran into brraap on Facebook, but I didn't really feel like starting a fight over it. If Ys IV is sold at cost then I guess that's that.

If it's at cost I'm ok with it. And of course if the translators are ok with it. Nice to hear from you (don't know about burnt lasagna or others). Not that i know every person involved with the translation process, but of the few i know you're the only one I've heard speak about it (unless I'm wrong).

The thing i still don't understand is why shipping costs so much. Are you located in Canada or something? It seems like the actual cost of say the entire Ys IV cd/manual/inserts/etc. would be around $25-30 which doesn't seem too bad. But $45 just seems high and if i recall correctly, you said shipping costs like $15 with tracking. Am i just not that knowledgeable about shipping costs or is that high...? 

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

Re-read my post.

If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.

I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.

DAMN, SON.


Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan

I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.

YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from  their artwork and IP.

I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.

I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).

[slinkyturd]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

Re-read my post.

If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.

I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.

DAMN, SON.


Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan

I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.

YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from  their artwork and IP.

I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.

I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).

If I can be frank, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I've not been paying attention to this community but for a couple of short months. Please assume that the intricate happenings of it are not general knowledge just because I have a TG-16. I don't know the happenstance of Megaman and Tobias. Therefore I have had no knowledge of how it relates to our current situation. The only thing I can assume is that the fruits of someone else's labor refers to an English translation of the game by them that is now being created and sold by another. Is that correct? I offer a resolution. If it is their work, I submit that they should make an attempt to protect it. Copyright? Or is it that that is not possible because it is still the legal property of Konomi? If that is the case then I say legally speaking the claim to their work is Konomi's and not their own anyway. I'd also offer that if they wanted to retain the ability to claim "rights" to their work then maybe make it so some guy can't just download and burn it. Copy protection exists now. We aren't NEC making CD games in 1990. Claiming rights and protecting rights goes hand in hand. There is also the assumption that he is cleaning up on profits from this. I don't have any reason to doubt him when he says that cost is cost, and he's not making much if anything. Perhaps he'll indulge us with a photo of a receipt for his materials and if cost is indeed his claimed cost, then I'd say regardless which argument one chooses between ours, it doesn't matter because he'll have proved that he's not making profit from other's labor. Is that fair?

[esteban]

I have to disagree with esteban. I'm more comfortable paying $45 for a complete set up. $45 for just a tray and paper is quite a bit above outside my threshold to purchase.

Actually, you proved my point. Thank you.

Maybe to a point. I'd happily be a buyer for a complete package though. I have no problem with the inclusion of the disc. We may both be saying $45 for paper and a tray is too much. My fix is include the disc; yours is to not make the set up because it is too costly.

Well, there is *more* to my argument.

For example, I discuss the ETHICS of bundling the CD-R (*not* the fruit of his labor) with the manual/inserts (the "fruit" of his labor).

I would like to hear your views on that, slinky.

Before you answer, please (1) re-read my post and (2) familiarize yourself with Tobias, the profiteering scoundrel who has (and continues) to profit from Bonknut's/tomeithous's PCE MegaMan project. (3) look at how Sparky handles things. I don't have a problem with Sparky. Why? He established a relationship within the community and has consistently shown his willingness to NOT GOUGE  (he could easily make $$$$ profit if he desired to do so).

slinky, you know I don't have a personal problem with you—you are simply the only person brave enough to advocate for Brrrraaaaap.




Brraaaaap, my friend, the art on the CD-R looks nice (the photo you posted), but the ethics of bundling  the CD-R with your other offerings...well, that is where we have different perspectives.

I understand your point that it is profiting from the labor of others, but with the state of these products I am not sympathetic, and here's why. If they, the developers of Dracula X, were still actually profiting from this game, I'd be inclined to agree. The market is strictly second hand at this point meaning that the production of a high quality facsimile doesn't hinder their earning potential. It's one thing take money out of the pockets of the developer, It's completely another to take money out of the pockets of the gougers on ebay. And that's how I see this. You have 2 options to play this game on a Duo, pay out the nose to a person on ebay or pay moderately for a high quality english facsimile. The developer doesn't enter the conversation at this point unless they plan on re-releasing this game for this system. i.e. no harm, no foul.

Re-read my post.

If I ever say "developer" it is ALWAYS in reference to BurntLasagna or Bonknuts or NightWolve.

I was very clear to refer to the "fruit of fellow fans/translators/coders" .... Tobias, for example, was referenced specifically because he exploited the PCE MegaMan project.

DAMN, SON.


Things I value:
(1) Reading comprehension and (2) a *little* knowledge about PCE MegaMan

I still love you, slinky, but DAMN.

YOU REALLY THOUGHT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT KONAMI? If I was concerned about Konami's IP, then I couldn't condone profiting from  their artwork and IP.

I care about NightWolve, Bonknuts, BurntLasagna, etc.

I also think that Brrrrraaaaaappppp should drop the CD-R so he can charge folks solely for the fruit of his own labor (damn, I love that expression).

If I can be frank, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I've not been paying attention to this community but for a couple of short months. Please assume that the intricate happenings of it are not general knowledge just because I have a TG-16. I don't know the happenstance of Megaman and Tobias. Therefore I have had no knowledge of how it relates to our current situation. The only thing I can assume is that the fruits of someone else's labor refers to an English translation of the game by them that is now being created and sold by another. Is that correct? I offer a resolution. If it is their work, I submit that they should make an attempt to protect it. Copyright? Or is it that that is not possible because it is still the legal property of Konomi? If that is the case then I say legally speaking the claim to their work is Konomi's and not their own anyway. I'd also offer that if they wanted to retain the ability to claim "rights" to their work then maybe make it so some guy can't just download and burn it. Copy protection exists now. We aren't NEC making CD games in 1990. Claiming rights and protecting rights goes hand in hand. There is also the assumption that he is cleaning up on profits from this. I don't have any reason to doubt him when he says that cost is cost, and he's not making much if anything. Perhaps he'll indulge us with a photo of a receipt for his materials and if cost is indeed his claimed cost, then I'd say regardless which argument one chooses between ours, it doesn't matter because he'll have proved that he's not making profit from other's labor. Is that fair?

As I said, it's about ethics.

I didn't mention copyright or IP or legal ownership of anything.

Ethics:

(1) I proposed that it is unethical to overcharge (gouge) for products/services.

(2) I proposed that it is unethical to profit from a fan-created product/service.

That's it.

Legally, folks are allowed to do lots of things.

That's why I made it an issue of ethics.

Because a douche move is a douche move, regardless of legality.

[slinkyturd]

I think then we need to wait for proof of material cost before I can respond further as I can't build a counter-argument to the ethics of it.