A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs

[tbone3969]

Sign me up for 2 orders if this project ever comes to fruition.  This sounds awesome!!!

[SignOfZeta]

And there's another one.

[esteban]

Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator) when your are straight up jacking a piece of software that was created (not modified) by a team of 100 people and owned by a corporation that can sue the shit out of you and even maybe send you to prison?

Does this make sense to anyone?

If you're going to jack it, just jack it. Don't talk about it, just do it. That's how bootlegging is done. I don't have a problem with bootlegs, IMO they are essential to virtually any scene, but this isn't how it's done.

As for the subject to be bootlegged, I don't see Drac X making much sense. The PCE original can still be had for a price not much higher than the original retail and there are multiple ports that are progressively cheaper. It also has almost no speech or text of any kind so the patch doesn't put it in the category of "must mass produce".

The debate was never about the original/current IP owners.

The "debate" was how THE FOLKS WHO CREATE THE TRANSLATIONS/patches/dubs specifically requested only personal copies be created. NO PROFITEERS SELLING BOOTLEGS.

Why does this matter? Because the folks who actually code/hack will DROP PROJECTS (tobias selling bootleg PCE MegaMan caused Bonknut's to lose enthusiasm the project...Burnt Lasagna, before and after Dracula X dub, requested folks make *personal* copies).

It's honestly the simplest request a person can make.

It's about supporting the folks who
(1) spend time/money/energy
(2) hacking/translating/recording/managing/creating/etc.

--> fan projects.

It is short-sighted and selfish (and just plain douchebaggery) to cause needless problems in our little PCE scene.

In an effort to make it easy....just print your own stuff/burn your own stuff...

http://www.tg-16.com/print_your_own_stuff.htm

[SignOfZeta]

There are really at least three different mechanisms at play here:

1) conventional IP respect
2) respect for the fan translators
3) basic fairness and decency.

As elsewhere in life, I prefer the third one, but most people seem to need a law or a rule or a personal interaction to help them behave like human beings because anarchism is for monkeys, right? You can't just hold someone accountable for human empathy when they don't f*cking have it, right? Right?

The company that owns the software doesn't want you to pirate it, but they're in Japan and worth $4B so f*ck them.

The guy that directed the game probably wants you to not pirate it too, but f*ck him because I never met him.

The guy that translated it doesn't care about the director or the owner, but he also doesn't want you to pirate it because that opens up a Pandora's box of who knows what the f*ck in his personal life. This is totally understandable. His name on a patch is legal. The file that the patch is applied to is illegal.

The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!

And then there are everyone's own personally formed opinions on piracy, which I'm sure that's just fascinating...

One does not pirate shit by going to the most high profile web forum for that shit and announcing plans to hire a plant for significant serial production of said shit in retail worthy packaging. That's how you f*ck everything. That's how you get forums with draconian censorship. That's how you lose translators. Sure, it's a chance to make a small amount of money, but it's also a chance to cause invaluable damage to a scene built by thousands of people world wide over decades.

If I were at a convention and some guy had a cake of pressed and translated Monster Makers that just said "MM" in screen printed Impact font, I would buy one for $1. That's how you do this shit. That's how records have been bootlegged for 50 years and it works pretty well. Making fancy cases, "small profit margins", announcing as publicly as possible, all that is a bad idea.

I'm sure someone has considered locking this thread, but I think it would be a credit to the forum if the idea was simply poo-pooed into oblivion.

[Dicer]

I'm sure someone has considered locking this thread, but I think it would be a credit to the forum if the idea was simply poo-pooed into oblivion.

I have to say I agree, it's not going anywhere it's only causing a rift between opposing viewpoints...this community is small enough as it is.

Want to play a translation/hack? download it, and if you care enough make it pretty yourself.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!

Basically sums a lot of this up. Community leeches looking for new ways to turn a nickle into a quarter. We get people coming here all the time to leech off the tech support so they can sell mods on ebay and other forums. Then we have noobs come around here singing up for raffles so they can win shit to flip. Then we have those other noobs that try to suck the sales threads dry so they can complete their Turbografx collection they just started last tuesday, because they have been long time Turbo fans, since sometime last 2014 when they saw it on a youtube video.

Given all of this, the fact that we have noobs on this thread now posting why they think all of this is perfectly fine is no surprise. Basically a bunch of cum buckets with a heightened sense of self-entitlement, with no respect for the TG scene, the community here, the translation/dev scene, or any original IP owners.

[technozombie]

My personal opinion(and yes I know my opinion is meaningless) is that no one should press these CD's if they don't own the original IP. If someone wants to make repro boxes/manuals/cases, I don't see a problem with that as long as they put the files up on the net so that anyone could print/make them. Those who want too print their own, can and those who would rather pay someone to do it, could.

[BigusSchmuck]

When you see something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dragon-Quest-VI-6-English-SNES-Super-Nintendo-/321657427945?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae446d7e9
I can totally understand why any fan translator would be reluctant to have their translation pressed in any way...

[Necromancer]

This thread is chock full of giggles.  What I've learned:

-  It's okay to buy a half-assed booty for $1, but you're a piece of shit if you pay a whole $2 for a full-assed one in a case.

-  If anyone makes a booty today, they will destroy this forum.  Ignore the fact that the sky didn't fall when Sapphire booties were distributed, when peeps post manual/case/box scans or even sell prints of them, when hacked NES roms are shared, when guys have offered reproduction SNES/Genny carts, or when ripped music is posted.

-  Only noobs have interest in booties.  Every single person that's been around for a couple years or more would rather punch their own mother in the face than buy a booty.... unless it's only a buck.

-  It's wrong to infringe on data IP rights, but it's okay to steal the artwork.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

This thread is chock full of giggles.  What I've learned:

-  It's okay to buy a half-assed booty for $1, but you're a piece of shit if you pay a whole $2 for a full-assed one in a case.

Dont really care for option A or B there.

-  If anyone makes a booty today, they will destroy this forum.  Ignore the fact that the sky didn't fall when Sapphire booties were distributed, when peeps post manual/case/box scans or even sell prints of them, when hacked NES roms are shared, when guys have offered reproduction SNES/Genny carts, or when ripped music is posted.

Fudoh lied to this forum concerning the Sapphire mess, and that shit had consequences that took some time to sort out, both here, in import shops in Japan that had to start checking over stock, on ebay, etc.

As far as anyone else doing it now besides cunt faced Fudoh, as long as they don't publicly associate it with Aaron's forum and website, and I mean this IS Aaron's site and forum, I don't see anything destroyed. Even then if it did happen, it would be more or less a stain on this place, much like it is on other forums. Honestly I don't see Aaron allowing his site to be associated with any of it. If it happened I don't see him letting his forum be used as an open market place for new repros, so I imagine he will come in with the ban hammer.

-  Only noobs have interest in booties.  Every single person that's been around for a couple years or more would rather punch their own mother in the face than buy a booty.... unless it's only a buck.

Wish that was true, but its not. We even had people from here buying cd-r shit from Fudoh at one point......

-  It's wrong to infringe on data IP rights, but it's okay to steal the artwork.

Ehh.... Reprinting doesn't really affect the sales of IP when it is re-released on stuff like Xbox Live Arcade, Virtual Console, PSN, or collection disc released at retail. I don't think anyone is going to be like "Oh I reprinted this insert for R-Type to stick in a blank empty case, so I don't need to buy the game on Virtual Console now.". Most people I would think that are buying inserts actually already own original legal copies of the game. Just loose is all, and they want to make their legit copy of the game presentable on a shelf. Unless said game companies start offering their own reprints again for customers to buy, this is a non-issue.

Outside of maybe a very ambitious SNK Playmore filing subpenas on April Fools, I don't see any company coming after anyone over reprinted inserts being purchased and used for legit copies of their games. They care about the software because it can and does still make them revenue. 20 year old boxes and manuals don't. It's a gray area that just no game company is going to care about because it affects nothing they are doing now or would plan to do with their software in the future, and it would be too difficult to prove it harmed their revenue in court if they no longer offered sales of replacement boxes and manuals through their company, let alone physical copies of the games, since almost everything is a digital re-release anymore.

Also, I cant imagine anyone ordering anything like Sparky's sets just to slap them with cd-rs in an act of promoting bootlegging or selling their bootlegs either. Its not even remotely economically viable to do that anyway.

[toymachine78]

Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator) when your are straight up jacking a piece of software that was created (not modified) by a team of 100 people and owned by a corporation that can sue the shit out of you and even maybe send you to prison?

Does this make sense to anyone?

If you're going to jack it, just jack it. Don't talk about it, just do it. That's how bootlegging is done. I don't have a problem with bootlegs, IMO they are essential to virtually any scene, but this isn't how it's done.

As for the subject to be bootlegged, I don't see Drac X making much sense. The PCE original can still be had for a price not much higher than the original retail and there are multiple ports that are progressively cheaper. It also has almost no speech or text of any kind so the patch doesn't put it in the category of "must mass produce".

  Amen!

[SignOfZeta]

This thread is chock full of giggles.  What I've learned:

-  It's okay to buy a half-assed booty for $1, but you're a piece of shit if you pay a whole $2 for a full-assed one in a case.

-  If anyone makes a booty today, they will destroy this forum.  Ignore the fact that the sky didn't fall when Sapphire booties were distributed, when peeps post manual/case/box scans or even sell prints of them, when hacked NES roms are shared, when guys have offered reproduction SNES/Genny carts, or when ripped music is posted.

-  Only noobs have interest in booties.  Every single person that's been around for a couple years or more would rather punch their own mother in the face than buy a booty.... unless it's only a buck.

-  It's wrong to infringe on data IP rights, but it's okay to steal the artwork.

Like I said, some people just need rules to function. I'm afraid there is no GUT that unifies human behavior in the realms of morality, legality, practicality, and table manners. People have tried, I don't know if it's ever coming.

The point I was trying to make is that different situations require different behaviors. People don't like it when you swear in church. So, don't swear, or don't go to church, or make your own church where you can swear all you want.

I'll pirate shit all day all night, most likely EVERYONE here has multiple bootlegs, regardless of how many originals they have, including the same people who don't want this project to have a home/presence at PCEFX, but PCEFX is not the place for organizing these things.

Now this certainly puts us way behind the trends seen in other software scenes, where protos and hacks are bootlegged onto non-volatile media left and right and nobody cares at all, but it's a request from people who currently contribute way more than average to this scene so I feel it's more than worth it. When the noobs are bringing more to the table than the vets, and this will happen eventually, then the scene will have changed and we won't be having this conversation.

[esteban]

NOTE: Stop getting lost in the old debates (pirating vs reproductions vs preservation)...

...and acknowledge that we only have a few folks actively (or even semi-actively) working on fan translations/hacks/ports/dubs etc.

I, for one, do not want to demoralize and disrupt our tiny group of creators because of the petty, selfish and short-sighted actions of others.

THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. f*ck EVERYTHING ELSE.

It really is that simple. You either support the creators, or you are a selfish douchebag.

It really is that simple.

[vestcoat]

The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!

Basically sums a lot of this up. Community leeches looking for new ways to turn a nickle into a quarter. We get people coming here all the time to leech off the tech support so they can sell mods on ebay and other forums. Then we have noobs come around here singing up for raffles so they can win shit to flip. Then we have those other noobs that try to suck the sales threads dry so they can complete their Turbografx collection they just started last tuesday, because they have been long time Turbo fans, since sometime last 2014 when they saw it on a youtube video.

Given all of this, the fact that we have noobs on this thread now posting why they think all of this is perfectly fine is no surprise. Basically a bunch of cum buckets with a heightened sense of self-entitlement, with no respect for the TG scene, the community here, the translation/dev scene, or any original IP owners.

Posts like these are why I'm still a member here.

[Greg2600]

NOTE: Stop getting lost in the old debates (pirating vs reproductions vs preservation)...

...and acknowledge that we only have a few folks actively (or even semi-actively) working on fan translations/hacks/ports/dubs etc.

I, for one, do not want to demoralize and disrupt our tiny group of creators because of the petty, selfish and short-sighted actions of others.

THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. f*ck EVERYTHING ELSE.

It really is that simple. You either support the creators, or you are a selfish douchebag.

It really is that simple.

I respect that.  If the translators don't want a pressing, I wouldn't go around their wishes.  I wasn't even asking for a translated version, the original version is fine with me (just patched to run on non-modded systems).  My point was that beyond emulation, the only way to play the original disc (without paying $200 for PCE-CD copy) is by burning it to a blank CD-R.  Many people like having this kind of thing in their collection. 

Did you create the game yourself? Is it your IP? Are you going to reimburse the creators of said work if it is not yours, per a legal agreement worked out between you and the original owners of said IP? If your answer is no to all the above, then you already know what the harm in it is. As stated prior, don't publicly involve this forum in that activity. If you plan to do this kind of crap, keep it to yourself and behind the scenes. This forum does not need to be attached to open bootlegging, especially for profit, no matter how low those profits may be.

There's a MASSIVE reproduction community for cart-based systems on retail games that didn't make it to North America.  Again, my point was how is this any different?  Konami says NOTHING about all it's games patched to NTSC and sold as complete repros on NES, Genesis or SNES.  There are folks doing Dreamcast reproduction, albeit usually without pressing the discs with an OEM-looking label.  Shoot, I'd take a North American looking CD insert/manual, and a CD-R with a printed label on it (doesn't even have to be clear).  Konami won't care, the translators aren't involved, etc.   If someone does it, I'll order one.  Then come here, and say my penance and 10 Hail Mary's, etc. and ask for forgiveness....