Favorite Valis game?

[esteban]

For someone who's never played a game in the series, where do you think is the best place to start? Is the story laid out in a manner that lends itself to being played chronologically, in a understandable language, or is it best to play the fourth game first in a language I don't speak?

As EmoerorIng stated, it really doesn't matter where you start.

If you wanted to give the series a fair chance, I would say that Valis III is a stronger title than most of the others.

[EmperorIng]

So I just beat Valis I last night, rounding out the trilogy of PCE-CD Valis games.

I still think it's the strongest game in the series, but one facet of the series got old really quick: bosses are impossible to kill unless you are adequately powered up. If you die twice to Rogles at the end of the game, give up trying to beat the game; you aren't going to make it.

The damage sponging was pretty ridiculous, and slowly powering down your character as you die is ok except when it spawns you right at the boss with no opportunity to regain strength.

The series is a master of frustration; I'm not sure if I want to jump into Valis IV or not. This might be a series I like in concept more than I like in execution. 

[Spooky]

Out of the ones I've played, I'd rank them as follows.

Valis 1 PCE (closest the series ever got to achieving greatness)
Valis 3 GEN (plays better and looks better than the PCE version. Some of the music sounds better, as well)
Valis 3 PCE
Valis 4 PCE (painfully average)
Valis 4 SNES
Valis 2 PCE (level design is as dull as it gets, and the bosses are a complete pushover)
Valis 2 MSX/X68K/PC-88 (unplayable. That PC-88 soundtrack is one for the ages, though)

[esteban]

Out of the ones I've played, I'd rank them as follows.

Valis 1 PCE (closest the series ever got to achieving greatness)
Valis 3 GEN (plays better and looks better than the PCE version. Some of the music sounds better, as well)
Valis 3 PCE
Valis 4 PCE (painfully average)
Valis 4 SNES
Valis 2 PCE (level design is as dull as it gets, and the bosses are a complete pushover)
Valis 2 MSX/X68K/PC-88 (unplayable. That PC-88 soundtrack is one for the ages, though)

I would flip Genesis and TG-16 versions of Valis III (edge goes to OBEY).

Also, I have to replay Valis 1 (Genny & PCE)...but I don't think it is better than Valis III on TG-16.

[Spooky]

Genesis version of Valis III has fewer bullshit moments in it than the ob3y, IMO (I absolutely loathe those water stages in the TG-16...) That combined with the superior aesthetics and controls cinch it for me.

The main thing that cements Valis 1's place is that it's the least flawed of any Valis. It's just an all-around solidly designed game. Might be more of a 'respect' thing than anything else, though... admittedly, I do play Valis III a lot more often. 

[esteban]

Genesis version of Valis III has fewer bullshit moments in it than the ob3y, IMO (I absolutely loathe those water stages in the TG-16...) That combined with the superior aesthetics and controls cinch it for me.

The main thing that cements Valis 1's place is that it's the least flawed of any Valis. It's just an all-around solidly designed game. Might be more of a 'respect' thing than anything else, though... admittedly, I do play Valis III a lot more often. 

I hear you. A lot of folks would agree with you on all points, too. I'll focus on Aquaduct, since it is infamous.

I think it comes down to a "love it or hate it" binary...

(1) Valis III has the Aquaduct Stage (and other shorter sequences) that are challenging. The (a) strategy to proceed might not be immediately obvious and/or (b) the platforming skills require some practice. Or a lot of practice.

(2) Although Valis III has these frustrating platforming sequences, some of them are so memorable, I consider them hallmarks of platforming  (first you have to figure out a strategy, then you have to perfect it). To me, the Aquaduct Stage is a fantastic moment of platforming history. It stumped me when I first got the game, and I loved, absolutely loved, when I figured out what I was supposed to do. Then, I spent a long time perfecting the technique. It was so satisfying.

(3) There are many other moments in the game like this: a genuine platforming puzzle that you simply can't spam your way out of (magic, special weapons). You can't brute force your way through either (where you simply rely on your health reserves to deplete at a lower rate than the enemy you are attacking).

BOTTOM LINE: Valis III forces you to experiment with three characters, experimenting with their physical traits as well as their different magic attacks...Aquaduct is a defining stage in platforming history.

[Black Tiger]

Genesis version of Valis III has fewer bullshit moments in it than the ob3y, IMO (I absolutely loathe those water stages in the TG-16...) That combined with the superior aesthetics and controls cinch it for me.

The main thing that cements Valis 1's place is that it's the least flawed of any Valis. It's just an all-around solidly designed game. Might be more of a 'respect' thing than anything else, though... admittedly, I do play Valis III a lot more often. 

Although I love the Genesis version, it has fewer "bullshit" moments because it has much less content in general. Although they did a great job polishing up the visual assets which made it into the Genesis/Mega Drive game, there is so much more in the Turbo/PCE version, plus the quality of the music and cinemas. So it's not nearly so cut and dry as choosing to only compare the small amount of shared aspects and ignoring the majority of the game. I think that having about twice as much content and aesthetics, especially considering the quality of much of what is exclusive to the Turbo/PCE version, heavily favors it as having the better aesthetics. That's also ignoring the compromised player sprites in the Genesis/MD version.


VALIS III AESTHETICS COMPARISON

TURBO/PCE <---------------------------------------------------> GENESIS/MD

[Mathius]

Some of the above MD pics are blacked out.

[Black Tiger]

Some of the above MD pics are blacked out.

That's because that content was cut from the MD version.

[Mathius]

Some of the above MD pics are blacked out.

That's because that content was cut from the MD version.

Do'h!

[EmperorIng]

You should compare the stages that are there.

For some reason, level 1 on the genesis looks waaaay better than the turbo-cd version. They really messed up the background color palettes.

[Black Tiger]

You should compare the stages that are there.

For some reason, level 1 on the genesis looks waaaay better than the turbo-cd version. They really messed up the background color palettes.

The reason for aspects that are more polished on the Genesis version is that it is a port of the Turbo/PCE version. There are many shared-content comparisons online and we already have the one in the screenshot comparison thread.

The point is, is the stage in the Genesis version '5 stages + more' better than the same stage in the Turbo/PCE version? If the Genesis/MD version looks better overall in up to 6 stages, but in around 6 other stages it simply does not exist, that doesn't really balance out in its favor. Plus several of the stages where the Genesis version adds parallax, it loses detail and various assets.

Getting back to that intro stage, the layer you walk on is less detailed on Genesis, the water towers look much worse, the large and medium sized building artwork is missing, the neon size is not as nice and the sky no longer lights up.

Also, don't forget that the Genesis version moves like molasses, as though it's running on SNES. It's so slow that the player animation looks hokey, as though you are watching someone pretend to run in slow-mo.

Have none of the new guys commenting on these games actually played them?

[esteban]

OBLIGATORY LINK:

http://tg-16.com/screenshot_comparisons_action.htm#Valis_3

[Spooky]

Black Tiger, I know we're on a PC Engine forum and everything... but c'mon. A little intellectual honesty, here?
 

http://tg-16.com/screenshot_comparisons_action.htm#Valis_3

As illustrated in those shots, the Genesis has the better detailed backgrounds, more layers of scrolling, and a less dim color palette. The issue of cut content does not factor into this equation. Advantage goes to Genesis.

Music is a toss-up. Some tracks are better on the Genny, some the PCE. If I was forced to choose, I'd probably give the edge to the Genesis, just because it has this.

Regarding the cut content... normally this would be a problem, but since the aqueduct section was part of what got trimmed, I'd argue this is a positive. 

Curiously, you didn't bring up the controls in any of your rebuttals, and it's easy to see why. The PCE version is clunky and less responsive in comparison, there's no denying this. Genesis has a dedicated button for sliding, less delay on projectiles, magic comes out quicker, certain magic attacks are more effective, smoother jumping, you can turn around while in crouched position without standing up (later levels in the PCE version can be quite frustrating due to the lack of this ability)... as important as aesthetics are, gameplay is king, and even if the PCE did have the superior aesthetics, I'd still pick the Genny over it for that reason alone.

Again, I'm not knocking the PCE game, it's one of the more enjoyable Valis titles, to be sure. Just that it's outclassed by its Genesis counterpart, is all.

[ClodBuster]

I know we're on a PC Engine forum and everything

THIS.