Author Topic: Favorite Valis game?  (Read 4109 times)

esteban

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Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #120 on: December 19, 2015, 08:27:12 AM »
Just a bump to share a few thoughts on Valis IV.

Spooky said the game was "painfully average." My feeling is closer to "painfully frustrating." While there are occasional good moments within levels, I seem to remember many more instances of enemies popping into existence and knocking you into a pit, unless you had memorized their spawn point and planned accordingly.

Ultra long levels combined with damage sponge enemies, with a dash of slow and sometimes-unresponsive attack controls (Amu's bird often decides it wants to home in exclusively on the space above enemies) - oh boy. I have to LOL at anyone who says there is a "strategy" to the game. Yeah, maybe in the broadest sense of "move out of the way of an attack, retard," but Castlevania this is not. Hope you don't die (and thus be stranded on a boss with the weakest weapon and no magic) and mash II and slide out of the way (oh, make sure you have Reina because you'll want those sliding invincibility frames to abuse). My reward for this effort was a credits scene with a musical number that repeats the same four bars over and over again; this is in stark contrast to an otherwise excellent soundtrack.

I think if the game was shorter and had been better tweaked in difficulty and balance, it would be a much stronger title, but I guess that's a complaint you can lob at every entry.

I played every Valis game that matters, perhaps sans trying out the Famicom game or getting into the nitty-gritty of the Genesis ports. You can now use this official, indisputable quality chart to decide which of these games are worth not-buying-and-just-burning (answer: all of them).

//OFFICIAL VALIS POWER RANKINGS//

UPPER QUALITY:
Valis II X68000
Valis I PCE-CD 

MIDDLING QUALITY:
Valis III PCE-CD 
Valis IV PCE-CD

LOW QUALITY:
Valis II PCE-CD

//OFFICIAL VALIS POWER RANKINGS//

Mama Mia!

Of course strategy is involved. And enemies spawning at inconvenient times/places, which may "knock you down" is so broad it can be leveled at nearly every platformer. Yes, I know you meant: you were saying that Valis III has a lot of "cheap" moments. I think you just need to spend a little more time with Valis III. Have you replayed it?

SNARKY: I submit that you would level this critique ("it's cheap") at Super Mario Brothers, too, if you had only spent a little time playing SMB.

You mention that Valis III is "not Castlvania", yet both games exhibit the same type of platforming design+ enemy placement... But I'll go further, I will argue that Castlevania is MUCH MORE LIKELY to exhibit "cheap" moments (say, a tricky jump + winged creature, or a tricky jump + an enemy with a mid- to long-range attack) than Valis III.

Valis III's aqueduct stage is brilliant. I don't think it is cheap. It is all about strategy and executing some platforming skills (freeze + jump, repeat).

Then there are moments where you use *slide attack* to overcome  challenging platforming/enemy placement.

Perhaps you need to explore/experiment with slide attack/magic/different characters.

BORING/UNINSPIRED: Sure, some stages in Valis III are boring/uninspired...but the same is true for Castlevania. Stairs in Castlevania are lame and lead to many cheap moments. I love the Castlevania series, but let's be honest in our discussions.

BOTTOM LINE: There are enough charming/satisfying segments/stages in Valis III to praise it. And it certainly holds its own against the antics in Castlevania.

IF YOU ENJOY CASTLEVANIA, you can enjoy Valis III.  :)





LOVE: Please note that I am a huge Castlevania fan... But I acknowledge that it isn't everyone's cup of tea. I don't think  the classic Castlevania series is particularly cheap, but if you are going to level that charge against Valis III, then I certainly have to call you out for ignoring how Castlevania exhibits similar "problems"... :)

NOTE: I love reading all of your recent posts. You are playing the damn games and talking about them :)

We need more discussions like this.

:)
:)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 12:59:23 AM by esteban »
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Medic_wheat

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #121 on: December 19, 2015, 08:32:10 AM »
Personally I am digging the SD Valis game for the Genesis.

Mathius

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #122 on: December 19, 2015, 12:46:57 PM »
Personally I am digging the SD Valis game for the Genesis.


You may well be the only one. ;)
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Medic_wheat

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #123 on: December 19, 2015, 01:31:26 PM »
Personally I am digging the SD Valis game for the Genesis.


You may well be the only one. ;)

That's ok with me
What's can I say I just seem to dog those chibi games.

Black Tiger

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #124 on: December 19, 2015, 02:02:15 PM »
I was shocked by how much I didn't like Syd of Valis the first time through. I thought that it would be pretty much a SD version of the Turbo Valis II, but it just wasn't any fun to play. Maybe if I spend more time with it will turn out to be better.
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blueraven

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #125 on: December 19, 2015, 04:01:25 PM »
I just realized something.

I've never, ever played any one of the Valis games... DAMN.

Just added them to my wishlist.
[Thu 10:04] <Tatsujin> hasd a pasrtty asnd a after pasrty ASDFTERTHE PARTY
[Fri 22:47] <Tatsujin> CLOSE FIGHTING STREET; CLOSE FORU; CLOSE INTERNETZ; CLOSE WORLD; CLOSE UNIVERSUM
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esteban

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #126 on: December 20, 2015, 12:50:21 AM »

I just realized something.

I've never, ever played any one of the Valis games... DAMN.

Just added them to my wishlist.

Jesuschristo. Play one, goddammit.



I was shocked by how much I didn't like Syd of Valis the first time through. I thought that it would be pretty much a SD version of the Turbo Valis II, but it just wasn't any fun to play. Maybe if I spend more time with it will turn out to be better.

Agreed. I just don't find it particularly engaging, which is funny, because I give everything a chance.

I'm always willing to give it another chance...but at this point...

I actually like the cute chibi/SD designs! Most of the small, generic enemy designs have far more personality in Syd than in the original source material. What a shame...


Personally I am digging the SD Valis game for the Genesis.


You may well be the only one. ;)


Hjahahahahjajaha. I concur with Mathius.

However, to defend medic_wheat, I actually wanted and expected to enjoy Syd of Valis...so maybe my expectations led to "disappointment" that I would not otherwise have felt.

I'll give Syd another chance. Someday.
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Punch

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #127 on: December 20, 2015, 05:25:05 AM »
Telenet games mediocre-to-bad, sky blue, water wet

Mathius

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #128 on: December 20, 2015, 12:50:24 PM »
Okay already! I'll give it another chance. *sigh* peer pressure
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esteban

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2015, 10:05:17 AM »

Okay already! I'll give it another chance. *sigh* peer pressure

I've been so harsh on the crappy Syd of Valis since it was released...

I feel like I am biased.

Also...peer pressure :)
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EmperorIng

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #130 on: January 04, 2016, 09:50:07 AM »
Bumping the Valis power-rankings because they are so right they deserve to be on a second page. I am messing around with the Mega-Drive/Genesis Valis game on emulator, and I kinda like it. It's way sloppier than the good PCE-CD remake, but it's sorta charming.

//OFFICIAL VALIS POWER RANKINGS//

UPPER QUALITY:
Valis II X68000
Valis I PCE-CD 

MIDDLING QUALITY:
Valis III PCE-CD 
Valis IV PCE-CD

LOW QUALITY:
Valis II PCE-CD

//OFFICIAL VALIS POWER RANKINGS//

Of course strategy is involved. And enemies spawning at inconvenient times/places, which may "knock you down" is so broad it can be leveled at nearly every platformer. Yes, I know you meant: you were saying that Valis III has a lot of "cheap" moments. I think you just need to spend a little more time with Valis III. Have you replayed it?

I was talking more about my experiences with Valis IV, which suffers because it is a much longer game and enemies have way more health than they need to. Valis III has its problems but Valis IV magnifies them.

Quote
You mention that Valis III is "not Castlvania", yet both games exhibit the same type of platforming design+ enemy placement... But I'll go further, I will argue that Castlevania is MUCH MORE LIKELY to exhibit "cheap" moments (say, a tricky jump + winged creature, or a tricky jump + an enemy with a mid- to long-range attack) than Valis III.

The difference is that Castlevania gives you far more time to react. The enemies are spaced fairly and you are not forced to memorize stage layouts to the degree that you are in Valis. In the best CV games (X68000, CV1&3, etc.), a mixture of reflex and skill can get you out of nearly any situation. The attack animations are measured and consistent, and you and your enemies follow rules that are exacting, but ultimately fair.

This contrasts with Valis IV, which seems fond of placing you on a moving platform and activating a turret-enemy's debilitating attacks before he has even entered the screen. You are given less time to react, and thus skill is downplayed while memorization is brought to the forefront. And furthermore, Castlevania enemies that like to surprise you while jumping are usually one-hit-wonders, whereas the fetuses in Valis IV like to take upwards of 12 hits to kill - or soldiers with mid-range attacks 5 (or up to 8 if you are not powered up).

Quote
Valis III's aqueduct stage is brilliant. I don't think it is cheap. It is all about strategy and executing some platforming skills (freeze + jump, repeat).

It's novel, but requiring the use of freeze magic (and thus punishing the player by making them wait... slowly... for enemies that drop random refills gets old. It's very much something you need to do correctly, the first time, with little room for improvisation (especially with the huge knockback). I agree that it's a neat concept but it needs to give a lot more for the player to work with.

Quote
BORING/UNINSPIRED: Sure, some stages in Valis III are boring/uninspired...but the same is true for Castlevania. Stairs in Castlevania are lame and lead to many cheap moments. I love the Castlevania series, but let's be honest in our discussions.

Stairs -can- lead to frustrating moments, but it's a quirk of the series that has been proven through clever levels (the great tower stage in CV3) or giving players plenty of tools to react to situations. Climbing the stained-glass window tower in the Sharp X68000 Castlevania is no problem, even with pesky bats, because there are multiple routes through the section, and bats are never so strong or cumbersome as to be more than a whip-lash away from death.

Quote
NOTE: I love reading all of your recent posts. You are playing the damn games and talking about them :)

We need more discussions like this.
Thanks for the compliment; misery loves company and I love sharing my misery about frustrating games. I still don't hate the Valis series but as Punch pointed out, Telenet games are pretty infuriating in their sketchiness. I'm playing Travel Eple right now and am wondering why I bothered.  :|

esteban

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Re: Favorite Valis game?
« Reply #131 on: January 04, 2016, 12:21:37 PM »
^ EmperorIng: I did not realize you were also referring to Valis IV...yeah, IV was a letdown after III, for me.

I concur about the mediocrity of Telenet PCE titles...but I have a soft spot for them, nonetheless. I also tend to love the Telenet House Band responsible for the soundtracks. Composers/musicians/whatever...many Telenet games share a common feel/sound that I like.

Anyway, POWER RANKINGS.

:)
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