Remember that Tengai Makyo Ziria translation project?

[shubibiman]

Thanks for all the details Dave

[SamIAm]

Sheesh.

Most of the dialogue in Tengai Makyo games is basically your ordinary modern Japanese, but the subject matter can be pretty esoteric to non-Japanese people, and for some lines there just aren't any great translation options.

There's one scene where Ziria (that's the main character's name) is at an inn where some haiku poets are having a gathering, and some of them tell you their poems. Looking up an archaic word, I found out that one poem in the game is a reference to an actual poem written in the 18th century about mating frogs. Specifically, the poet is cheering on the weaker male frogs during what is basically a springtime frog orgy.

And this is at the heart of a joke, which is all contained in a just a couple of text boxes. It's not an amazing joke or anything, it's just like "Times are tough, but we poets are cheering for you, like we cheer for all living things. [haiku]".

Now, if anyone can come up with a good original haiku to fit this context that preserves the intention of the original poem, I would be glad to credit you in the readme as "Frog Sex Haiku Composer".

[Dicer]

Frogs like to have sex
Multiple partners are had
They do not feel shame

[esteban]

Weak frog wants to cum
We poets want frog to cum
...and Ziria, too

[seieienbu]

A weak frog wants in
survival of the fittest
I wish him good luck

I took something of a 16 bit Nintendo approach to this and rather than make it explicit.  For the 3rd line, I think "god speed" sounds better than "good luck" but that particular idiom seems out of place in a Japanese Haiku for some reason...

[dshadoff]

In springtime, frogs are mating in muck,
but the weak ones are down on their luck.
Though I tried for Haiku,
I guess a limerick will do...
And to the weak frogs, I say "Have a good ... screw."

[NightWolve]

Dave wins I think!

[seieienbu]

Agreed.  That's quite clever.

[dshadoff]

Closer to the original meaning (but still a limerick):

It's springtime, and creatures will mate,
So their bloodlines don't meet a cruel fate,
The dominant do,
And the weaker should too....
Go on, get some - before it's too late !!!

It is possible that a limerick among haiku could create a moment of fun.  Not sure whether it would be suitable for the situation though.

[SamIAm]

The original poem by Kobayashi Issa from the 18th century, translated straight and without forcing the 5-7-5 structure, is like this:

やせがえる 負けるな一茶 これにあり
Weak frogs
You must not give up. Issa
is here for you

So it's kind of subtle, and that's something I'd like to be reflected in the translation. A lot of Japanese people have no idea what the original poem is really talking about until they research it. I might put the original in as-is and credit the actual poet, and leave it to the curious to google it.


Alternatively, this is something I came up with:

Despair not, weak frogs
for courage is rewarded
with springtime peaches

I like this because peaches are a very common metaphor in Japanese poetry for...well, I'm sure you can guess. Also, it doubles as a kind of encouragement for Ziria, which I think is ultimately the point of the dialogue.

I do like the limerick idea. Granted, they're so long that it would have to be literally one line per text box. Anyway, there are several poems, so I might keep that idea in mind for another one.

[esteban]

Weak frog wants peaches
We poets want frog peaches
...and Ziria, too

[dshadoff]

So it's kind of subtle, and that's something I'd like to be reflected in the translation. A lot of Japanese people have no idea what the original poem is really talking about until they research it. I might put the original in as-is and credit the actual poet, and leave it to the curious to google it.


Alternatively, this is something I came up with:

Despair not, weak frogs
for courage is rewarded
with springtime peaches

I like it... it reminds me of the "Frog and Peach" by Peter Cook and Dudley Moore.

[Arjak]

The original poem by Kobayashi Issa from the 18th century, translated straight and without forcing the 5-7-5 structure, is like this:

やせがえる 負けるな一茶 これにあり
Weak frogs
You must not give up. Issa
is here for you

So it's kind of subtle, and that's something I'd like to be reflected in the translation. A lot of Japanese people have no idea what the original poem is really talking about until they research it. I might put the original in as-is and credit the actual poet, and leave it to the curious to google it.


Alternatively, this is something I came up with:

Despair not, weak frogs
for courage is rewarded
with springtime peaches

I like this because peaches are a very common metaphor in Japanese poetry for...well, I'm sure you can guess. Also, it doubles as a kind of encouragement for Ziria, which I think is ultimately the point of the dialogue.

I really like your localization of the haiku, Sam. It gets the point across while still being a bit subtle and also maintaining a Japanese flavor with the peach metaphor. I think keeping the general feeling of the original script is important, so I wouldn't want it to be too on-the-nose and crass, or to have the whole mood changed for the sake of a cheap joke.

I do like the limerick idea. Granted, they're so long that it would have to be literally one line per text box. Anyway, there are several poems, so I might keep that idea in mind for another one.

While suddenly throwing in a limerick would be funny, I think it would alter the mood too much.  I assume most people nowadays know what a haiku is, so that's not exactly a localization issue, but more importantly, it would disturb the Japanese flavor of the story and setting, which from what I understand, is a key element of the series' identity. I don't know...Unless you can think of some clever way to do it that fits in with the original script, I'm against the limerick idea. It just feels a little too...Working Designs to me.

[SamIAm]

Thanks for the positive feedback.

I basically agree about the tone, and I don't think I would bust out a limerick unless one of the other poems is truly outlandish, like not even a haiku.

They all seem to be based on real haikus, though. Ever hear these ones? They are about three famous Japanese generals, and as a metaphor for their characters, the generals are talking to a cuckoo bird that won't sing:

織田信長 Nobunaga：
「鳴かぬなら、殺してしまえ　ホトトギス」 "If you do not sing for me, I'll kill you."
豊臣秀吉 Hideyoshi：
「鳴かぬなら、鳴かせてみせよう　ホトトギス」 "If you do not sing for me, I'll make you sing."
徳川家康 Ieyasu：
「鳴かぬなら、鳴くまで待とう　ホトトギス」 "If you do not sing for me, I'll wait till you sing."


In the game, it's a joke like "If you do not sing for me, I will wait for the nightingale."

EDIT: Ugh, the next one has a reference to a famous enka song. I might use an English song as a reference. Quick, what is the corniest, most well known love song in English that you know?

[seieienbu]

And IIiiiiiiiiiIIIIiiiiiiiiIIiiiiiiiiii, will always love yoooooOOOoooooOOooooOOooouuuuu