That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!

[BlueBMW]

It's like a lock on a door...  even a very small deterrent will prevent most thieves from bothering

[Jibbajaba]

Are there any of these fan translations where the original game is unusually expensive?  Xak III is about a $20 game, and Startling Odyssey II is even cheaper.  Why can't someone use some contacts in Japan to buy up as many copies of the game as they can find and ship them over here.  Then Nightwolve or whoever can have pressed & patched "backups" of the game made complete with custom disc label art.  Then they sell the original game to people, and it includes a back-up for "free" (charge people for the cost of the pressed disc, plus your time for performing the service if you see fit).  This way they are not providing a pressed repro copy of the game to anyone who does not have the right to a backup copy, and they are offering consumers the option of both buying a legitimate copy of the game and a patched disc directly from the people who did the translation (or an approved third-party.)

It just seems to me that as long as some of these people who do the translations are completely unwilling to make some type of physical product available to those who want something other than a CD-R, there are going to be people like Tobias who are happy to fulfill that need. 

[Jibbajaba]

Accidental double post.

[Punch]

It would not be hard. It seriously would not be hard. You just run a hash check on whatever section of code you want to stay put. The entire intro sequence, for example.

The message itself doesn't have to actually be in the check, that only needs to be on the CD once. If you write the check in a number of significantly different ways then they won't stand out significantly when some bag is looking for the code in the ISO. Put one right before the first boss fight, one at the end, one in the save screen, etc. The only way to find them all would be to basically have a really good programmer play all the way through the game and debug the entire thing for ages until he's thwarted by every check and fixes them all one at a time. This is certainly possible, but it's way beyond the normal Tobias way of doing things (file the numbers off, make up a story, octuple the price, profit). At the very least it would require this sponge to do some work.

This. Joe talks as if this is something from another world, but in fact it's relatively easy, just make a function to check the areas with the warning text, the nametable and custom palette for the special screen in ROM, and that's it. You could even add hidden, compressed routines to check the integrity of the checksum code itself, triggered by something random like a particular enemy being spawned, a sample scheduled to play, etc. See: Mr. Gimmick's BLACK HOLE, Earthbound.
It's literally a JMP/JSR $ChecksumRoutine thing to start the verification, what, 3 bytes? And the code itself is likely to be small and will definitely run independently from the "original program"...

Of course it would be even better if Tobias didn't knew at all about this but there's no way that someone like him would bother hunting for all the anti modification routines, he would either half ass it or not press the game at all.

[Bernie]

I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this. 

[Jibbajaba]

I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this. 

I agree.  The fact that he so quickly changed his plans and offered the discs up for free when it certainly looks like he had everything already printed up and ready to go suggests that he is wary of pissing off the community (although not wary enough to avoid selling those translations in the first place).  I would bet that he sticks to repros from now on.

I really don't understand the guy.  The attention to detail and little extras that he includes with his boxed sets (and the completely redone artwork and manuals) would lead you to believe that this is someone who REALLY loves the Turbo/PC Engine.  But the same guy pressed copies of Sapphire and tried to pass them off as real, sold the Rockman translation without permission, and was about to sell two more translations without permission?    I don't get it.  If the guy is a total scumbag then why isn't he just making straight-up bootlegs and selling those?  The little bookmark things, the commemorative coin.  Those aren't selling the set.  They're just little extras.  So why is he doing stuff like that if he's just a bootlegging thief?  But then if he isn't a bootlegging thief, then why is he stealing people's work?  His behavior totally contradicts itself.

[Gentlegamer]

I had wondered that myself, he obviously has the ability to make very professional looking product and has shown to have few scruples, why not just straight up counterfeit and sell on ebay?

[esteban]

I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this. 

I agree.  The fact that he so quickly changed his plans and offered the discs up for free when it certainly looks like he had everything already printed up and ready to go suggests that he is wary of pissing off the community (although not wary enough to avoid selling those translations in the first place).  I would bet that he sticks to repros from now on.

I really don't understand the guy.  The attention to detail and little extras that he includes with his boxed sets (and the completely redone artwork and manuals) would lead you to believe that this is someone who REALLY loves the Turbo/PC Engine.  But the same guy pressed copies of Sapphire and tried to pass them off as real, sold the Rockman translation without permission, and was about to sell two more translations without permission?    I don't get it.  If the guy is a total scumbag then why isn't he just making straight-up bootlegs and selling those?  The little bookmark things, the commemorative coin.  Those aren't selling the set.  They're just little extras.  So why is he doing stuff like that if he's just a bootlegging thief?  But then if he isn't a bootlegging thief, then why is he stealing people's work?  His behavior totally contradicts itself.

He is clearly a bootlegger who takes pride in the product...mostly because it allows him to charge a premium price. You gotta hand it to him, he knows his customers (be they collectors or PCE fiends): finicky bastards who love attention to detail, the concept of a "deluxe edition", the occasional unique item (PCE coin) and an overall pleasing aesthetic.

He knows that this will appeal to us (fanatic PCE fans, collectors in general).

...BUT THERE IS ALSO PART OF ME THAT FEELS THAT HE WOULD LOVE FOR SOME CUSTOMERS TO THINK THAT THESE RELEASES were legitimate, "special editions"....legitimate products that are licensed.

 

I think the overall aesthetics of his offerings are quite nice, actually. I thought he was the designer behind them, but someone has suggested that he actually commissions the design work. Either way, he chooses excellent design work.

[SamIAm]

He can probably unload bootlegs faster if he sells them directly from his own site, and so he has to create some sort of facade about doing it out of pure love for the games.

It would not be hard. It seriously would not be hard. You just run a hash check on whatever section of code you want to stay put. The entire intro sequence, for example.

The message itself doesn't have to actually be in the check, that only needs to be on the CD once. If you write the check in a number of significantly different ways then they won't stand out significantly when some bag is looking for the code in the ISO. Put one right before the first boss fight, one at the end, one in the save screen, etc. The only way to find them all would be to basically have a really good programmer play all the way through the game and debug the entire thing for ages until he's thwarted by every check and fixes them all one at a time. This is certainly possible, but it's way beyond the normal Tobias way of doing things (file the numbers off, make up a story, octuple the price, profit). At the very least it would require this sponge to do some work.

This is exactly right.

As the saying goes in encryption, any knot that can be tied can be untied. But it would not take much time for one of our better hackers to load this thing up with several checks that would be enormously time consuming to deal with and would require a really skilled programmer.

And there are a couple of other sneaky tactics that I won't even bring up here.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

I doubt he will do translations anymore after all this. 

I agree.  The fact that he so quickly changed his plans and offered the discs up for free when it certainly looks like he had everything already printed up and ready to go suggests that he is wary of pissing off the community (although not wary enough to avoid selling those translations in the first place).  I would bet that he sticks to repros from now on.

I really don't understand the guy.  The attention to detail and little extras that he includes with his boxed sets (and the completely redone artwork and manuals) would lead you to believe that this is someone who REALLY loves the Turbo/PC Engine.  But the same guy pressed copies of Sapphire and tried to pass them off as real, sold the Rockman translation without permission, and was about to sell two more translations without permission?    I don't get it.  If the guy is a total scumbag then why isn't he just making straight-up bootlegs and selling those?  The little bookmark things, the commemorative coin.  Those aren't selling the set.  They're just little extras.  So why is he doing stuff like that if he's just a bootlegging thief?  But then if he isn't a bootlegging thief, then why is he stealing people's work?  His behavior totally contradicts itself.

I've run into bootlegs of 3DO and Neo Cd stuff that was of pretty decent quality. It really just depends on who is doing it. Even in the bootleg world there are people who take pride in their presentations. Also, it helps their products sell better.

[Gentlegamer]

We need to invent a single use encryption key that is distributed by the translation makers that can patch a single disc. Let the translators distribute it on an individual basis to the community and keep out leachers and bootleggers.

But then again, I'm sure that would get cracked like everything else.

[Arjak]

I don't know what good it will do (probably none), but I have just sent the following e-mail to Tobias:

Tobias,

I am writing this email as a result of a controversy that has arisen regarding your latest releases through PCEWorks. There has been a lot of bad blood going around about your recent releases of fan translations of Xak III and Startling Odyssey II because, from what I've heard from the translators and hackers themselves, you had no permission from or previous discussion with them before you created a product based on their work.

I really enjoyed your Turbo Duo box set, as I do not wish to have to take out a bank loan to own and enjoy even just ONE of these four games, and seeing how the only alternative was to burn some CD-Rs and hope for the best, I was very willing to buy your product.

However, the fact that you apparently made no attempt to contact the people responsible for these translation patches before attempting to profit from their work (Let's be honest here; the fact that your individual releases have different prices, seemingly based on the desirability of the game, is a pretty clear indicator that you hope to profit from this. I'm pretty sure that CDs don't cost more to create depending on the data put on them.) is something that I find disgustingly dishonest.

I know that this is not the first time something like this has occurred with you. I understand that you also attempted in the past to sell a port of the original Mega Man to PCE-CD that was made by a friend of mine without permission as well. Before that, I heard that you initially tried to pass off your first reproduction, Sapphire, as legit unsold stock.

These actions have caused you to have a very bad reputation with parts of the PCE community, especially those whose work you have attempted to profit from, including friends of mine whom I have great respect for. I was willing to look the other way for your Turbo Duo repro set, but after this, I wish to inform you that I will NOT be purchasing your reproductions of the Xak III and SO2 fan translations, and unless you make a serious attempt to make amends and change your strategies for dealing with the PCE fan and hobbyist programming communities, and attempt to work with them, and not just profit from them, I will not be purchasing ANY of your future products.

You make great repros, Tobias, but I cannot purchase them in good conscience, and I won't, until you stop hurting my friends and the PCE community at large, whether intentionally or not.

Sincerely,

Collin

[Jibbajaba]

Damn 'jak, that's a good e-mail.  I was thinking of e-mailing him myself, but you spoke much more eloquently than I could have. 

I have absolutely no problem with his bootlegs nor with the price he charges.  He's going after those of us who have collectardy tendencies.  Those without them can just play burned CD-Rs.  But there is just no excuse for his other behavior.  Like the Sapphire thing.  He should have just printed up nice manuals and inserts with vastly different artwork, like he's doing now, and sold them as high-end repros.  He would have made plenty of money.  And as far as the translations go?  He could have and should have reached out to the guys who did the translations to try to work out a business arrangement.  And when that didn't work out, he should have gone back to making repros of other high-dollar games.

[SignOfZeta]

Why he does it:

I don't know the guy, but I've seen this kind of behavior before, most famously from ChrisR and Crazy Dion of Neo Geo Freak USA.

When you love something so much (PCE and Neo being the two coolest systems of all time) there is a certain part of many fans that makes them want to be in on the action. They want to be part of it. They want some of that awesomeness to somehow rub off on them. This kind of shit happens all the time in many scenes in many weird and f*cked up ways, but with Tobias and NGF it resulted in them pretending to be publishers of shit when in fact they just took some existing shit, f*cked it up, and sold it as their own. Obviously NGF wanted to be SNK, Tobias wants to be...Working Designs, aparently. WDs contrived tat being the closest to a gilded coin and cardboard that is way way too glossy.

The way he refered to certain games as "requested" makes him seem like...awesome and popular. He can't actually make anything himself that would honestly earn praise, so he's trying to sell other people's awesome shit and get on that bandwagon. That's why he's not selling pirate Avatar Blurays at the pub for $1, there is no hype to vampire off of. He needs to feel like he's a part of the creation.

And it works. Personally, I'll collect anything I feel like, but any PCE game that was not manufactured with the approval of Hudson back in the day will never be real*, and since that door is long closed, I'll not be buying any "new release" or "special edition" PCE stuff from him or anyone. However, younger generations have no respect for "legitimate authority". A genuine game and a bootleg are the same thing to them, games. This is why he'll have customers. That guilder coin just BLOWS PEOPLE'S MINDS, but to me its and terrific as Sparky's carbon fibber fuel filler flap. **

And he will have his defenders, I'm sure, forever. People still defend NGF, astoundingly, usually people that are even more mentally ill than NGF are.

*homebrew is obviously excluded
**fake as f*ck

[NightWolve]

https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=11637.msg396400#msg396400

Oh look, a proud new owner...