That Tobias f--k went after Xak III and SO II as pressed CD-ROM releases!

[BigusSchmuck]

Actually, not so much him. He doesn't seem to go after homebrew, and that's more what I had in mind with that post. There are people out there that have the mentality that if you don't sell your own stuff - someone else is free to (ethically). While this is more in the SNES, NES, and Genesis circles... it can happen with PCE. Homebrew, hacks, translation - they're one in the same for these guys.

I am being a bit myopic, aren't I?  :oops:

Yes, there are other smaller-scale and less balsy low-lifers, and even other gaming platforms, where such a tactic might be a discouragement.

I don't like the idea of grandifying those kind of folks by actually having to code booby-traps into games ... but I guess that would be up to individual development/translation teams.

 And honestly, it's the risk we take when we do translations/hacks/homebrew. I've known this for years. I would probably never go as far as to implement such drastic anti-piracy measures, but it's nice to fantasize about it - lol.

How hard would it be to insert a HuVideo on the intro of a fan translated game? If it wasn't too difficult, put in a Rick Roll video and they have to put in a code to get into the actual game otherwise it loops over and over again reminding people that this translation was free and if they paid for the repro they have to stomach Rick Roll.

[Punch]

Seriously. Tobias is a f*cking a$$hole, period. LOL if you think that his free turbo disc site isn't to make people who call him out on his practices look like raving lunatics in the eyes of the general collect(ard) public.

He's actually an evil genious, with his whole 'for the love of it' campaign. It might get to the point that even straight up inserting a text in the intro of a game/translation calling out tobias might not be effective, in fact it might even backfire and make the guy who wrote the text look like an idiot. I would guess that the only thing we can do for now is ignore him.

[SamIAm]

It might get to the point that even straight up inserting a text in the intro of a game/translation calling out tobias might not be effective, in fact it might even backfire and make the guy who wrote the text look like an idiot. I would guess that the only thing we can do for now is ignore him.

I'm not terribly concerned with how I look. If I'm going to stand by my conviction that unauthorized repros are bad, I'm going to have to be tougher than that.

Also, to me at least, there's a big difference between the RIAA making an over-the-top commercial shouting at you that downloading an mp3 is like stealing bread from a starving child and will land you behind bars FOR LIFE, and some upstart musician saying "If you like my stuff, please support me". I think it's possible to make a loading screen message that would get across the fact that we don't want to see repros, and also that would survive any test of time without becoming ridiculous.

We might see repros no matter what we do, but we should do what we can. A loading screen message does not take a lot of effort to make (I think), it does not deeply impact the player's experience of the game, and it guarantees that at least everyone will be informed. That WILL make at least some difference.

--------------------

https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18596.msg394626#msg394626

That's the email he wrote to Nightwolve back when the Xak III repros first appeared. Yes, it's a dizzying flurry of rationalization. Yes, it seems like he will print anything he can get away with printing. But it looks to me like he's transitioned from being a con-man selling fake Sapphires to being an established black market dealer who is concerned about his customers' perceptions of him. In another email, he describes a "balancing act". It's like the difference between selling knock-off Rolex watches advertised as such and selling stolen ones; he probably wants people to think he's a trustworthy knock-off seller. Most people have no qualms about buying a knock-off if the quality is good and the original company is faceless and rich. You know, like Konami.

It's not the best analogy, but the point is that in this day in age, he probably stands to earn more money as a "legit" black market dealer. He probably wants to avoid drama.

I think we should contact him by making a post in a public forum he visits...possibly shmups.com...and tell him that we want him to pledge not to make reproductions of the Xanadu translations for no reason other than that it goes against our wishes, and we're the ones providing translations.

[shonenx]

A gentleman in the Neo Geo community worked to convert Ironclad from CD to MVS when bootlegs of his work popped up for sale he fought it by making more copies and offering it cheaper than the bootleggers , unfortunately at cost to himself I believe .

 Not saying its a solution that works here (especially on CD formats) but maybe putting up a dedicated FAQ on the Facts of the situation and how individuals can make their own copies to play at home would stop the money from flowing into the wrong pockets.

Either way I mention this past case as an example that no solution will be easy or over night.

[elmer]

Tobias started giving away Xak III and Startling Odyssey II when Nightwolve contacted him after he put them up on his site. The give-aways may have resulted in bigger sales of other products, but I think it's possible that they are not part of a scheme which he will continue to apply to all translations.

I think that he was truly surprised by the negative reaction, and then turned around and tried to make it all a positive by giving some away.

Remember ... he still kept on selling (and advertising) the rest of his stock of them.

For example, where is YsIV? We've heard that he pressed them and is supposedly sitting on them. However, that was a while ago. Could it be that Tobias's morals are not so totally black and white, and that being asked by the translator not to release a repro made him decide not to? If only for the bad press it might generate?

I doubt it. He's supposed to have a lot of product in his queue, all ready to go.

I just don't think that he wants to flood the market. It's a chance for his customers to refill their wallets ready for his next offer.

Dracula X is pretty special, and it's no surprise that he went out on a limb for it. Nearly every other translate-able game on the system, however, including Xanadu I and II, is completely different. The originals are cheap, and most people don't know the franchises. Therefore, there's much less reward for any risk even if he gives away pressed copies for free.

What risk? He's already neutered our complaints by giving the translations away.

You have to go to his "freebie" site and write a note explaining why you deserve to get one for free.

Want to bet that all of his customers that have bought DraculaX will somehow be deemed "worthy" of getting a free copy of the translation?

Sure, he won't be able to charge as much for other games as he's doing for DraculaX, but his profit margin is high, and don't forget that he's already released plenty of other games that don't have the profile of DraculaX.

His buying public will lap them up anyway. Particularly if there's a place in the CD case already pre-prepared for a free English-translated version. He does put together a beautiful product.

-We should talk to him. Seriously. Before a release, let's just message him and say "Hi. We're about to release a translation, and we'd really appreciate it if you didn't make reproductions of it. We aren't accepting money for these because we believe it's wrong to do so, and it discourages us from doing what we do when we see people selling reproductions of our work. If you really love the PCE and would like to see more translations, please respect our wishes. Thank you."

You're asking him to somehow have respect for our wishes, when it's already been shown that he has no respect for other people's property rights.

Somehow, I really just can't see that working. Doesn't hurt to try, though. 

Like it or not, Tobias does love the PC Engine. He's posted on shmups.com for years, and I bet he knows more about PCE shooters than a lot of you do. Again, what he's done with Sapphire and other works is inexcusable, but I think he just might be more complex than the mustache-twirling villain we have been making him out to be. He might respond positively to positive engagement.

Errr ... I honestly suspect that he thinks that he's doing a good thing.

Furthermore, if adding a loading screen message moves even a small fraction of the people who would pick up an unapproved repro, I think it's worth it.

It can be done. It's just a bit of a PITA.

The thing is ... people aren't going to see it until they've already paid for the product.

[ClodBuster]

The logic of desperately begging Tobias not to produce more discs based on fan translations is the same as wearing a T-Shirt that says "please do not rape my ass" in public. Cause you know, just in case somebody wanted to do that to you, he'd now be informed that he shouldn't.

Tobias reads this forum anyway, so he knows exactly what kind of an immoral guy he is. There's no way he could be surprised at all about the reactions. From common sense, he should be the one asking for permission first instead of the other way around. And a morally intact person would refrain from making discs of other people's work if he isn't allowed to.

[SamIAm]

I think the logic of putting in a loading screen message is more like "See this fake Rolex you bought? It's actually stolen."

I do believe that some people would be influenced by that.

I do not think Tobias is really a moral guy who is just a little misunderstood. He's basically a thief. But I do think we ought to give him the chance to do the right thing, and we should do it publicly. He just me surprise us, for one thing, and for another, even if he doesn't, I don't think we'll regret it.

You're asking him to somehow have respect for our wishes, when it's already been shown that he has no respect for other people's property rights.

I think that he was truly surprised by the negative reaction.
.
.
.
I honestly suspect that he thinks that he's doing a good thing.

He doesn't care about respecting the original IP holders*, and he doesn't care about ripping off collectors. However, he might care about ripping off people actively doing translations for a system he enjoys, and he might care about more widespread negative reactions.

*by releasing translations, some might say neither are we.

[esteban]

A well-written disclaimer, that appears as a loading screen, can only help.

The disclaimer can inform ANYONE who plays the game, not simply the original owner of a physical copy.

As soon as the original owner sells/gifts the bootleg to a new person, the PSA has a chance to inform.

Likewise, anyone downloading/burning a copy of the game can be informed.

At the very least, we need folks to be informed.

Some folks will never bother reading the disclaimer—but that doesn't mean it is futile.

And we should never mention Tobias/PCE Works specifically in the disclaimer. It is the general principle we are imparting, applicable to all media across all platforms.

[Koop]

A well-written disclaimer, that appears as a loading screen, can only help.

The disclaimer can inform ANYONE who plays the game, not simply the original owner of a physical copy.

As soon as the original owner sells/gifts the bootleg to a new person, the PSA has a chance to inform.

Likewise, anyone downloading/burning a copy of the game can be informed.

At the very least, we need folks to be informed.

Some folks will never bother reading the disclaimer—but that doesn't mean it is futile.

And we should never mention Tobias/PCE Works specifically in the disclaimer. It is the general principle we are imparting, applicable to all media across all platforms.

I mean just look at the homebrew channel on wii. "If you paid for this you were duped" or whatever every time you boot it up.

[Mathius]

Way to go, me. I lost another bookmark and hadn't been keeping up with this thread. I got to page 43 before I was exhausted from 2 hours of reading posts.

Holy damn. Konami isn't Konami anymore (they sexed up my Castlevania! I puked in my mouth), Tobias sold his soul to the king of collectard hell, and Necro and Esty bicker. At each other! I don't ever want to see that again, you two.  Oh and Tats comes home. Finally.

I love you all and I want this shit to cease for all our sake.

Can't we just buy a South Pacific island, invite the dudes from old NEC-HE to live with us there, set up manufacturing plants for CRT TVs, circuit boards, micro-processors and the like, and live happily ever after? This is all getting too crazy for me lately. Maybe it was because of my accident but I'm a lot more aware of just how blessed we are to have the hobby that we do and to have this particular community. It's all so fragile and I fear the collectards are ruining things for everybody.

All I know is I'm going to fight for it til my dying breath.

[esteban]

Holy damn. Konami isn't Konami anymore (they sexed up my Castlevania! I puked in my mouth), Tobias sold his soul to the king of collectard hell, and Necro and Esty bicker. At each other! I don't ever want to see that again, you two.  Oh and Tats comes home. Finally.

I love you all and I want this shit to cease for all our sake.

Mathius, I was going through menopause.

I don't ever want to argue with Necro or Professor again.

I probably will (ha!), but that's what happens during hot flashes.



I really wish Necro, Prof and I could have hugged/spooned after our spat.

Luckily, we still can do that on an isle in the South Pacific.

Obviously, Mathius, you and I will play Monster Lair. A lot.

Just promise not to get sand in the CD drive. Or the HuCARD slot.

[Mathius]

Holy damn. Konami isn't Konami anymore (they sexed up my Castlevania! I puked in my mouth), Tobias sold his soul to the king of collectard hell, and Necro and Esty bicker. At each other! I don't ever want to see that again, you two.  Oh and Tats comes home. Finally.

I love you all and I want this shit to cease for all our sake.

Mathius, I was going through menopause.

I don't ever want to argue with Necro or Professor again.

I probably will (ha!), but that's what happens during hot flashes.



I really wish Necro, Prof and I could have hugged/spooned after our spat.

Luckily, we still can do that on an isle in the South Pacific.

Obviously, Mathius, you and I will play Monster Lair. A lot.

Just promise not to get sand in the CD drive. Or the HuCARD slot.

Sand and slots.... There is a joke in their somewhere. 

I missed prof jumping in on the action but my eyes were holding up white flags from trying to catch up with over 30 pages of drama so I'm not surprised I missed it.

[esteban]

^hahhahaa!

I remember the days when I would trudge through hundreds of posts...trying to catch up with things.

[Gredler]

^hahhahaa!

I remember the days when I would trudge through hundreds of posts...trying to catch up with things.

Hahaha glad to hear I am not the only one who can't keep up, or the only one going through manopause

I agree with the idea of a difficult to remove informative splash screen. Granted it will only be seem by the people who not only purchase these boots but also - God forbid - open the game, it will at least inform that small group.

Judging by how many you tubers and bloggers do play and advertise these games, but are completely oblivious to their shady roots, perhaps they would second guess promoting the product, of at least relay the info to their audience.

I do think the media needs to play a larger role in this knowledge transmission. People are uninformed, and I fear our little voices come across as a foil hat rant.

[seieienbu]

I think the logic of putting in a loading screen message is more like "See this fake Rolex you bought? It's actually stolen."

I do believe that some people would be influenced by that.

Maybe I'm just too cynical on this point, but I see two dumb flaws with this.  First, the unknowing public quite likely won't find out about the disclaimer until after they have already bought and played the game.

The second flaw I see?  I honestly don't believe that people buy these games to play them.  They are merely shelf ornamentation to show how collectard-y the owners are.  I would be super interested in statistics of how many people actually played the games they bought/were given by Tobias. 

Dracula X potentially being the sole exception, here as it's a well known game with a good reputation and people actually want to play it.