Author Topic: Taking my Duo out of storage  (Read 744 times)

MNKyDeth

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Taking my Duo out of storage
« on: February 28, 2015, 06:44:45 AM »
I will be going to my dads later today and getting my TurboDuo out of storage. It was in a box in a closet for the past 15-20yrs. I have been doing some extensive research on the Duo for problems that plague the system.

I plan on doing a full cap replacement on it. However I have seen two ways to do this. I believe from what I have seen GameTechUS on youtube has a very good way of going about doing this. He has two vids though one using regular caps and another using ceramic.

What in you're opinions is the better way to go for this?

I am leaning toward the non ceramic caps as those are similar to what the Duo originally had. But the ceramics if there are no issues at all going that route imo is a better solution for longevity and simplicity. I would really like input on this as if ceramics are the better option I would want to try and match the caps a bit better and use class 1 ceramics.

If going ceramic, would matching the voltages etc of them be better or is it not needed? Like he used the 6.3v ones in the vid.

Just for reference.
Non-ceramic

Ceramic


Also, I am confident my soldering skills are up to this task, but when doing this mod should I do other things while I have the Duo opened? Like, should I replace the HOP-M3 Laser pickup and the 9v motor, just for the sake of making them new?

The next major thing I have been thinking of doing is trying to change the video out on this console to something other than composite. I have read the thread here on the forums for the RGB-to-YPbPr/Component Circuit & Mod. I feel this may be a slight bit over my head. I understand most of it but have never done anything like that so I feel uncomfortable with it.

However since I know I can do the soldering part of that job are there any pre-made parts available for something like that out there? I most likely am open to ideas for a nice upgrade in video quality if possible even if it is not in that specific format. HDMI, s-video, anything that I can do or possibly do that is better than straight component. I am planning to hook the console up to my computer with a capture card so before I purchase that I want to make sure I have my video output as good as I can get it and buy the card according to the type of output I have.

I love this console as it has always been my favorite from when I was a teenager.
Any info or links to my questions is greatly appreciated.

Edit: Final

Pics are basically from start to finish. I didn't include them all, just the ones that told a story.

1. My Duo.


2. When my Duo was made.


3. Before the caps came off.


4. Ceramic cap next to a pen.


5. The corrosion OMG, WTF BBQ Sauce. :(


6. Close up of possibly the worst cap on my board.


7. Cap is removed, those pads lifted when I applied heat to them to clean them.


8. The trace I wrecked, I was very angry with myself. I freaked out for a couple minutes wondering what I was going to do to fix it.


9. There are little bumps of solder sticking out of some traces. I followed where the trace went and found some within range of the legs of the cap. I will most likely redo this when my wire comes in as I would like to reduce any stress on those incredibly small bumps of solder from the traces. The one leg is connected to the trace that runs under the #2 in R929


10. My board, completed. There is one old cap still on the board as I dropped one of my ceramic caps. I however spent another 45min after getting my system to work digging through my carpet very methodically. I found it and that old cap has been replaced.


Edit 2:

Controllers... My controllers seemed to work well after my full system recap. I started swapping my controllers back and forth as I played to make sure they were both the same feeling as I thought one might have had a delay in it compared to the other.

Well, some more pics to tell the story with. :)

1. I opened up both controllers. One looked way more used, older than the other. Although I have had them both since the day I got my Duo, some 20-23yrs ago. The main thing of notice was the turbo slider switches.


2. I cleaned up the metal on the entire piece making sure not to bend the contacts at all.


3. The cleaned up piece with the tool I used. It is a fiberglass scratch brush. I am sure there might be something better to clean it with but it seemed to work very good. My controller actually felt better than the one I didn't clean up so I opened that one up as well and there was some tarnish on those contacts as well just not near as bad. Both my controllers feel the same now. So if you have any laggy feeling in the controller this might be causing it.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 04:58:26 AM by MNKyDeth »

cjameslv

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 06:56:52 AM »
I used the ceramic ones on my duo. They work great and look even better. Definitely recommend them. Bought them all from mouser electronics, believe it ran around $17 bucks and took a week or two to get them.

MNKyDeth

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 06:56:57 PM »
Ok, well, I got home and hooked the TurboDuo up to my LG 42" 720p plasma tv. At first everything seemed to be working just fine.

I had put in Dragon Slayer: The Legend of Heroes. It started playing the cd just fine and the audio was good. After the first part of the intro movie when it finally went to the next scene I lost all audio. The video was still playing as normal it seemed just without the audio.

Next I put in Air Zonk and played through the first level without any audio issues. The one problem I did run into was that the rapid fire would not work properly when I held down the button to shoot. When I would tap the button it would sometimes shoot but not always. Hopefully that is just a dirty contact that I can clean up. I have two controllers and the second controller I tried worked like normal, no issues.

Because the audio worked perfectly fine on the Hucard I am assuming my issue is in the cd-rom area. Either with the caps or the pickup lens. So, I feel the proper thing to do is to go ahead with the cap replacement. I am still wondering if I should just replace the 9v motor and the HOP-M3 laser pickup, just to make those parts new so I won't have to go back in later on.

I used the standard cable for the Duo to hook up to my TV and it seemed to look fairly ok. I was expecting it to be washed out a bit more and stretched out but it actually looked pretty normal to me.

Looks like I will start shopping at mouser to see what caps I can get. I would like to kind of catalog my changes to the system so I will most likely update this thread as I get each mod done.

Edit: Well, I just ordered all the caps I hope. I also went with mostly ceramic with a few Aluminum Electrolytic from Nichicon. All of the ceramics were from TDK.

I also bought a  HOP-M3 Hitachi CD/VCD Laser Pickup. I also needed to buy the gamebit socket that fits this console. Once I have this I can open up the TurboDuo and see the electric motor for better judgement on replacing that as well. I am only going this far as I want to make everything that is mechanical in the console as new as possible.

I do have another question though.... Is the battery backup memory capacitor listed in the diagram in the other thread? I want to make sure I get that replaced so I don't have to worry about my save games.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 03:17:45 AM by MNKyDeth »

crans

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2015, 09:44:44 AM »
good luck to you sir and make sure to clean all the old junk off prior to new caps.

any issues many good members hear can chime in on where to look
ModItAll.com

MNKyDeth

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2015, 08:09:45 AM »
Ok, after a long drawn out process with the USPS delivery from Amazon it looks like I will finally be getting the needed equipment this coming week to start working on my Duo hopefully next weekend.

I have everything except the gamebit to open the console and some odd's and ends I wanted to make the job a bit easier.

Out of the options available that I am heavily considering doing to my Duo when I open it up I would prefer recommendations on which ones people prefer to use.

1. Buy an Everdrive 2 when it comes out that might have an expanded backup memory, or go with the current Everdrive and then region mod my console with GameTechUS region mod chip with a tennokoe. However, I may do the region mod anyways to allow for PCE games. I just really want a larger backup area available to me.

1a. In the scenario above the new revision of GameTechUS converter is not out yet as there was an issue with it I think. I am subbed to his youtube so I know I need to wait on that. Or I can go with the one on tg16pcemods.com the OBEY chip. It just seems the GaeTechUS mod chip would be a bit easier for me I think.

2. I plan on buying the RGB to Component video converter V.2 from the above mentioned site. I really have not seen any other or better solutions than that specific mod for RGB for the Duo's. If there is a better solution let me know please as I plan on buying this before this weekend it over.


So... Planned mods hopefully for the following weekend are....

1. Full cap replacement
2. Replace laser pickup lens unit with a new HOP-M3
3. Install RGB mod
4. (optional, undecided) region mod

After completion of each mod I will test before moving to the next one to help eliminate issues if any should arise.

schweaty

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2015, 10:21:35 AM »
i wouldnt mess with the HOP-M3 unless you know for certain that it is fuct.  the failure rate on the chinese HOP-M3s (i'm sure they are all chinese, but i'm talking about the modern ones... so i digress) is reported to be as high as 75%.  stick with the stock laser until you know it needs to be replaced.

the jury is still out on the ceramic caps.  very few people have used the ceramics so far.  my personal opinion is it wont make a huge difference which one you use (though the lack of a polarity on the ceramics will make it easier) as long as it gets done.

Keith Courage

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2015, 12:42:25 PM »
I agree, keep the stock lens. generally minor pot adjustments get it working well once again. Also, make sure to clean off and regrease those lens rails.

wilykat

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2015, 10:28:47 PM »
If you're getting Turbo Everdrive, don't bother with region mod.  TED handles that and there's been complaint that some region mod actually cause problem with TED.  From what I can tell, it seems problem is mostly the version that is switchable via controller button on power up and not physical switch.

Also if you're going to wait before getting TED, you could get an used TED 1.x cheap when people buys their new TED 2 and sell off older TED.  AFAIK the 2.0 would only help with Populous game and any future homemade game that needs extra RAM.  2.0 still won't work with Arcade card (it uses a lot more memory) so unless you really want extra RAM for future homemade game, just get an used TED 1.x cheap and get Populous game separately.

MNKyDeth

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2015, 05:50:23 AM »
wilykat, I am mostly considering the Everdrive version 2 if it has a storage space for save games.

If it does not then the region mod is the way I think I need to go so I can use a tennokoe bank card.
Honestly either way works for me but I need more space for my save games.

Keith Courage, I will wait on replacing the lens as I trust the more experienced people here over my own judgements at this point relating to fixing up my system. Thanks for reaffirming schweaty's advice. I appreciate both of you're guys advice on that.

I guess as well I should mention I pretty much went all out on the caps for my Duo trying to adhere as close as possible to the original specs with the ceramics.

I think the RGB mod will be huge for me as my console does display on my tv just fine at the moment. I have a LG 720p 42" Plasma tv. I know it's just a touch older but it honestly works great with games, great colors and I never see any blur like I do on 1080p 120hz tv with gaming consoles.

Just went to go order the RGB mod chip http://tg16pcemods.bigcartel.com/product/new-and-improved-component-video-converter but I have no idea if I need the sync stripper board or not. I am not sure exactly what it does. Guess I will do some more reading but any advice if I need that stripper board or not is appreciated.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 06:37:07 AM by MNKyDeth »

MNKyDeth

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2015, 06:05:29 AM »
Ok, I think I have everything I want except one thing for my Duo.

I want a RGB to HDMI converter box. Similar to this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1K029H7400 The main reason for this is that I am going to install the RGB chip from http://www.tg16pcemods.com but I want to hook it straight to my computer. I have an Avermedia Live Gamer HD capture card that works good with my other consoles.

The problem I am having it that the Duo outputs 240p according to the tg16pcemods site. All of the converters I am finding only support as low as 480i or 480p.

Does anyone know of a RGB to HDMI converter that supports a 240p input signal?

poponon

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2015, 06:18:22 AM »
you want a lenkeng lkv362a if you're going cheap. If money is not an option get a framemeister or xrgb3

MNKyDeth

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2015, 06:59:37 AM »
Woooooo... that xrgb3 looks mighty nice. But alas, I think I may want to stay on the less expensive side for now.

Will any rgb to scart cable work, like this one? http://www.amazon.com/Component-YPbPr-Audio-Scart-Video/dp/B0060HOY5O/ref=sr_1_cc_4?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1429206344&sr=1-4-catcorr&keywords=component+to+scart+cable I mention it as it doesn't look like that lenkeng comes with one.

So, I am looking just shy of $100 and that seems good to me. Who knows down the road I may go with that XRGB unit but I would rather make sure everything works before slapping that money down.

Also, since I do plan on adding the rgb ports to the backside of my Duo I didn't see a guide or anything for routing the left and right audio to their own ports on the back of the Duo. I would like to do this to remove the need to use the stock/original cable. Any advice on where to get the audio signals from is appreciated.


Edit:

Ok wow... After some serious reading on this subject I think even if I am just getting my feet wet. In the long run that XRGB  is the way to go. Mostly for the full upscaling features it provides. It seems like it covers all the bases where as if I go cheap I could just be banging my head against the wall.

Some of the info I read, not all but very good none the less for information on this. Lots of other sites and reviews based exactly on this subject are out there. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=630556

So... I think for the time being on the RGB to hdmi conversion I will settle for it on my TV as that has RGB inputs and I can get a picture already with the standard rca cable my Duo has. Start putting some extra pennies away for that mini XRGB upscaler. Also, I think in the long run it will be the better buy especially as I move to 4k or more TV's.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 07:26:20 AM by MNKyDeth »

mickcris

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2015, 07:32:03 AM »
shameless plug, but i have some rgb amps for sale:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18845.0
you can just replace the din5 with a din8 and not have to modify your case.

the mod you were talking about earlier is not RGB.  Its a board that converts the RGB signal to component video.  I think that it is not meant to be plugged into a scaler and its for going directly to your tv.  you would be adding an extra layer of processing if you would run it through another scaling/converting device.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 07:47:58 AM by mickcris »

ProfessorProfessorson

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2015, 08:03:57 AM »
shameless plug, but i have some rgb amps for sale:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18845.0
you can just replace the din5 with a din8 and not have to modify your case.

the mod you were talking about earlier is not RGB.  Its a board that converts the RGB signal to component video.  I think that it is not meant to be plugged into a scaler and its for going directly to your tv.  you would be adding an extra layer of processing if you would run it through another scaling/converting device.


Turbokons RGB to component board works fine with the GBS-8200, so I am sure it would work on other scalers too that can accept component. The real issue is that some Turbo/PCE games experience a minor loss of sync when flashing occurs on screen on the GBS, like when battling one of the bosses on Side Arms. This does not happen with the Snes on the GBS, so this seems to be a PCE/TG sync issue.

MNKyDeth

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Re: Taking my Duo out of storage
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2015, 10:24:24 AM »
Currently De-capping my Duo. Almost every single cap has corrosion. I never thought it would be this bad. No wonder my Duo had low audio, controllers not working right and couldn't read the cd's anymore.

I really hope this is all it needs to be in working condition again. Just going slow, taking my time hopefully by morning I have the recapping done so I can get some sleep.