Retro VGS Game Console

[dan Iacovelli]

none at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro,  if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

[poponon]

And using a Jag case...I'd have to see the specifics but this doesn't make much sense to me. The advantages should be few if any. The PCB should be a fraction of the size of the Jag's, so it'll need to be designed, unnaturally, to stretch to to the mounting points inside the case. You could retool the case or produce an in-between riser peg system or something, but if you're doing this at a level of mass production needed for a machine like this then it seems extremely unlikely that using old Jag molds would be cheaper than just drawing up a new case. This is 2015 after all. Then there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

l000000000000000l. 100% agreed

[SignOfZeta]

It's a fair point, we haven't seen anything. I have a pretty good nose for lameness though. I don't think its a scam or anything, I just don't see the seeds of awesome here.

[Arkhan]

So, it's going to look like an Atari Jaguar?

If the cartridges are going to look as stupid as the Jaguar ones:  Pass.

I am not sure what people's obsession is with new retro consoles.   It just seems dumb.  There's plenty to do with existing stuff.

 

none at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro,  if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

Yeah, if it weren't for Intellivision, future console makers wouldn't have had a solid list of "things you shouldn't do".

[SignOfZeta]

none at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro,  if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

It isn't retro. It's brand new. It doesn't even exist yet it's so new.

[dan Iacovelli]

they can't clone any internals to the jaguar something about atari I think even though it open market.
again listen to the podcast he tlaks about the cost wise of making a new mode and getting the jag mold.
the system is new but the games it self are based on retro games.
the fact all games go back to retro: ie tempest evolved to tempest 2k to tempest 3k and so on.

[Mathius]

I love all the points being made, but we should really wait and see what the outcome is going to be. They have an uphill battle to make this all work though. I remembered a quote by RJ Mical regarding the 3DO where he states that when something stinks it continues to stink forever. Or something along those lines. The same is true for the Jag (sadly, even though I like the machine). It will be take a miracle of marketing to wash the old stink of the Jag off.

With all that's being said though I'd still hate to see general pessimism ruin the machine early.

[Punch]

This isn't just plain old pessimism Mathius, few people will want to have one, even fewer people will want to program games for it, and a small portion of potential programmers are going to want to pay for cartridge production unless the creators of the console "publish" it. If digital media is used to distribute games, great, but it gets closer to the OUYA with little to no differences (besides the Jaguar shell and cart slot).

The best case scenario, if they're lucky and competent, is a year of relevance with ports of other platforms like PC and Android and then attention of the small userbase wil go exclusively to emulation support on the device. It's logic + prior history of similar devices. They should stick to manufacturing Jaguar shells and publishing Jaguar homebrew cartridges because that makes more sense and will contribute to retrogaming more than this "retro" console.

[elmer]

listen to this podcast with mike  why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not.

OK, I listened to it ... and got bored by the BS at about 40 minutes.

At least one of the guys in the podcast is doing a pack-in game for the Retro VGS ... and therefore has a financial interest in its initial sales. Excellent objective reporting, I can certainly trust these guys' opinions!

I loved the bit about them not being able to get anyone to design the hardware for them ... all the guys that they start working with suddenly become busy on other projects after a while and bail out. That's a really good sign.

As is Mike's (the guy behind it ... and a marketing guy) commenting on how very hard it is to design a 2D console these days, and how they can't figure out if it should have a composite or hi-def output.

Hahahahahaha ... look around for 10 minutes at what's already out there ... FPGA retro machines with VGA outputs that can connect to an LCD OR an old TV. Not a difficult design decision ... lo-res s-video/rgb output for a TV, plus a built-in scan-doubler for 720p VGA output to an LCD.

Yes, HDMI would be nicer than VGA ... but there are prohibitive licensing fees for using the proprietary/patented HDMI connector/bitstream.

Then there's their agony of what a 2D sequel to the Neo Geo would have been capable of ... well perhaps they could just look at the 5th gen machines and the mid 1990's 2D arcade boards ... that's maybe a week's worth of research.

Anyway ... this all means that the current crop of their pack-in indie developers don't have a real clue what they're developing for, and are probably all just hoping to port bloody Unity projects to the machine.

BTW ... I know a team that got a 2D "retro" project funded through Kickstarter ... apparently they don't have a clue about building a real retro game with limited resources, and are having problems hitting framerate on modern console hardware. I'm sure that they're not the only modern "retro" developer that would scream if they really had to develop on something running at less than 1GHz with 1GB of RAM.

But that's all irrelevent ... after all, the whole thing is about the love of the "retro" games and the joy of owning real cartridges.

So, let's see about those beautiful cartridges.

Well, he saying that there's an approx $8 manufacturing cost for a cart+box+manual. I suspect that that means that they can't go for anything larger than a 128MB flash chip ($1.70 at 1000 qty) ... i.e. 1/5 the size of a CDROM.

That's not a lot these days ... but hey, it's "real retro" so everyone will be happy with limited sound/graphics compared to the latest "less-real retro" iPhone game.

Anyway, back to money ... taking their "high" $40 selling price ... there is mention of a "high" $25 back to the developer.

$40-$25-$8 = $7 for their "royalty" ... BTW, you did hear the quickly-glossed-over mention of their "royalty" didn't you?

So ... it's got nothing to do with the love of "retro" ... it's about the money ... surprise, surprise.

As usual with the marketing guys ... they've identified their market-segment, and they've decided what those people might be willing to pay for a "product" ... but they still don't have a clue about exactly what it is that they'll be selling ... that's up to someone else to figure out.

This sounds like a really well planned operation that couldn't possibly go wrong.

I remembered a quote by RJ Mical regarding the 3DO where he states that when something stinks it continues to stink forever.

I'm glad that you mentioned the 3DO ... this has exactly the same stink of ego and marketing wishfulness that Trip Hawkins was spouting when the 3DO came out.

At least he had the decency to get large companies to fund the disaster rather than asking the general public to do so (on KickStarter).

With all that's being said though I'd still hate to see general pessimism ruin the machine early.

I'd rather see someone with a plausible plan come forward.

BTW ... I know that I'm coming off as a totally-negative ass here ... but I'm getting really tired of seeing KickStarter being used to fund someone's half-thought-through scheme to get-rich-quick.

These guys are supposed to have been in the industry for ever ... if none of their rich friends/contacts will fund this damned thing, then there's a reason.

[SignOfZeta]

they can't clone any internals to the jaguar something about atari I think even though it open market.
again listen to the podcast he tlaks about the cost wise of making a new mode and getting the jag mold.
the system is new but the games it self are based on retro games.
the fact all games go back to retro: ie tempest evolved to tempest 2k to tempest 3k and so on.

Wait, are you saying older things came before present day things?

MY MIND IT CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

If a developer exists that can make the most of this machine they should just make Neo carts.

Btw, why on God's earth would anyone even want to clone Jag internals? Is there a shortage of these POS machines? Did they all suffer BIOS bit rot and melt? Last I checked they were pretty worthless and common, but then I don't follow Atari stuff.

[Mathius]

^^Hey Zeta! Good to see you back, brother. I was worried about you. Hope all is swell.

This isn't just plain old pessimism Mathius

Point taken.

I guess I am just really wanting to see a return to the old days in this world of digital downloads and zero risk taking. Maybe this isn't the console that'll make it happen, but it is a nice dream.

[Arkhan]

The whole thing sounds dumb to me.   I'll stick to developing for MSX and PC Engine instead.

Inferno has working doors now.

and really, if they can't decide between retro or hi-def, it says they're out of touch with anything retro gamers are currently doing, and they honestly shouldn't be bothering.

[TurboGrafx]

Curious to see the price when it's finished.

[ProfessorProfessorson]

This thing...umm...uhhh...nah, I will pass. No f*cks given.

[elmer]

Curious to see the price when it's finished.

The podcast mentioned "less than $200, probably $180" ... that's for the console, 2 controllers and the pack-in game.

Not a bad price at all for a major-manufacturer's heavily-marketed new console.

But for this ... to play small indie iPhone games ... I think that I can spend my "retro" money better elsewhere.