trying to understand scanlines....

[bullethell666]

So I've went on Craig's list to hopefully find a better tv to use with my core grafx. I've also been reading up a little about scanlines and such. To my suprise I searched the "free stuff" section and found it overflowing with televisions , monitors,etc . Mainly I found a ton of Sony Trinitron tv's ,some labeled "wega".  I think I'm gonna pick up a 27"   My question is this ... If I get a wega/trinitron crt television(there's actually several models to choose from) bring it home and connect my Core Grafx to it via composite ,will I now have scanlines? Or am I gonna need another component / device ?  The tv I'm using now isn't horrible but I figured picking up a free Sony trinitron wouldn't hurt (with the exception of my back after lugging it upstairs) I'd really appreciate anyone who could weigh in on the matter. Thanks-

[whisper2053]

If all you're looking for is scanlines, then no you shouldn't need any additional equipment beyond the monitor you named. Bear in mind, you'll need to make sure that it's an SD model and not an HD...as the HD ones do not have scanlines.

[Joe Redifer]

The HD CRT that I used to have had scanlines in 480p, but that's it.

[bullethell666]

Thanks fellas. I'll try and keep you posted. I haven't been a member of a forum on years. What's the best and easiest way to post pics? Also, is there a thread with page upon page of pc engine set up/collections ? If so can someone post a link? Thanx

[SuperDeadite]

Scanlines depend on the TV/monitor you are using.  The thick heavy scanline look came from tri-sync arcade and PC monitors.  When displaying 31khz (VGA) about 480 lines, scanlines are tiny, however when those monitors display 15khz, only about 240 lines are used, hence there is empty space between each line resulting in those thick scanlines.

However older mono (15khz) and dual (15/24khz) displays do not display the image that way, they still do have scanlines, but they are only as thick as the space between pixels, and the spaces are the same distance in both the horizonal and vertical lines, meaning you get a tiny grid as opposed to the above lines.

What you prefer is in the eye of the beholder.  I prefer the older original grid look, but with the popularity of candy cabs in home use, the super thick lines are what a lot of people have become used to.

Since scanlines are the space between pixels, generally the larger the display the wider they will become.  For a more accurate measurement the dot pitch rating is the amount of space between pixels.

Sony TVs work a bit differently, their Trinitron tech displays differently then standard types.  Iirc, tritrons use octogonal pixels as opposed to the standard squares.  For this reason even the standard SD Wegas tend to have thick heavy scanlines.

The Sony HD-CRTs use special tech and upscales everything.  Hence 240p/480i content is upscaled and you lose the scanlines completely, they also will have issues with things like 3D LCD shutters and light-guns because of this.

In the end though you really need to find a look that suits you.  For years lots of people were quite happy with their Sony PVMs, but then the thief fudoh proclaimed that Sony BVMs were the best picture ever, so everyone started dumping their perfectly good PVMs for BVMs.  Don't fall into that trap, just get a decent RGB display that fits your needs and be happy with it.

For myself I prefer to use a dual-sync when I can, but the X68000 requires a tri-sync so I have both.  Not counting weirdo devices that need specialty monitors (FM Towns).

[imparanoic]

or you can use a xrgb 2/2+/3 or the nice but pricey xrgb mini for scanlines on hd tv.

definitely the best way to visualise retro game, though the availability in the west for this upscan converter is pretty rare, the official cables are also rare ( I have official super famicom rgb and sony ps1 official rgb cable)

I have also modified my pc engine duo for rgb (though no rgb amp, use xrgb to control the rgb levels)

[xelement5x]

In the end though you really need to find a look that suits you.  For years lots of people were quite happy with their Sony PVMs, but then the thief fudoh proclaimed that Sony BVMs were the best picture ever, so everyone started dumping their perfectly good PVMs for BVMs.  Don't fall into that trap, just get a decent RGB display that fits your needs and be happy with it.

So true.  I've got a nice 27" Trinitron and a 20" PVM and I am really happy with how everything looks when I play it.  Could the picture be better in some ways, sure, but I'm happy

[Mzo]

I far prefer a CRT or a PVM to the XRGB.  I like the softer look that games have on them, even through RGB.  The most convenient solution I've found is a CRT using an RGB to component box.

Plus, lightgun games!

[Grandiloquence]

Not got the room for a CRT and can't stretch to a PVM/BVM so I invested in one of those "SLG-in-a-Box" gadgets from Arcadeforge. Looks good, can't wait to try it out!

[ProfessorProfessorson]

Personally myself, I am using a iScan Pro and a GBS 8200 on a smaller crt SVGA monitor. I could add a scan line generator into the mix, but just have not felt the need. I may do so however if I ever ditch the crt VGA in favor of using a LCD again. Just depends on my mood.

If you can get a decent old crt based TV, then great. If not, then you may want to invest in something like a iScan Plus or Pro and add a SLG to it and run it into a LCD that accepts VGA in and it will be a fairly cheap solution. Plus you will have the option of outputting via vga or component with a iScan Pro. Buying a SLG and a iScan Pro would be about 200 bucks cheaper then a XRGB.

This here is my s-video modded Duo and Snes mini running into the iScan. I wish I could get betters pics then this, but my camera kinda blows when trying to get screen shots off monitors. Trust me, it looks much better in person. Looks like a high quality, fairly clean image without that emulated look some upscalers end up appearing like. The iScan also seems to minimize the shimmering you get in the image from movement in certain games.

[Arkhan]

I just use an XRGB3 on a giant ass TV.   Sometimes I take it somewhere and plug it into a monitor.   

I find the image quality it produces is better than composite + CRT, and it's easier/more longlasting/flexible than getting a PVM or some shit.

I mean, I can plug two composites, svideo, RGB, and VGA into the thing, and it outputs the audio to my stereo system.

and it is ON A 60" TV.

[seieienbu]

I think scanlines are cool and all on a TV that actually has them but I've never liked adding in scanlines via upscalers.  Emulated scanlines always look a little bit odd to me...  If you want a clean picture use an upscaler on an HD monitor.  If I want a retro scanlines look I'd hook up an old TV that actually had them.

[imparanoic]

I think scanlines are cool and all on a TV that actually has them but I've never liked adding in scanlines via upscalers.  Emulated scanlines always look a little bit odd to me...  If you want a clean picture use an upscaler on an HD monitor.  If I want a retro scanlines look I'd hook up an old TV that actually had them.

xrgb doesn't actually upscale, they are line doublers,

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=630556

[Keith Courage]

Some  CRT sony trinitrons do not have scanlines. This may only apply to the larger HD ones. I used to have two 36 Inch CRT trinitrons. One was from 2000 and the other 2001. Neither one had scanlines and S-video also looked like poop. I think this was because it actually had an upscaler much like newer HD TVs. Also light guns would not work.

Now I stick with 27 inch CRT TVs. I can also confirm that I have tested out at least 10 different brands of CRT 27inch TVs and all work well with the s-video mod. Even if the 27 inch TV claims to be HD.

[munchiaz]

I currently use a Sony PVM, and i really love it. I do someday want to get a xrgb so it would be easier to capture footage