Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?

[Joe Redifer]

other than those JB Harold & Sherlock holmes games which don't really count because the video playback is so bad

JB Harold didn't feature any video playback at all, only digitized stills.  This is a common misconception that I think maybe even NEC made in their advertisings if I remember.

[malducci]

What hardware assistance does the Sega-CD have other than 6 megs of ram?

The SegaCDs additional CPU (68000 @ 12.5mhz) can stream data from the CD and decode the compression scheme while the main CPU is free to do other tasks. The SegaCD CPU can also do tasks the main CPU normally does(and faster) or work simultaneously with it. It's a pretty powerful setup.

[SignOfZeta]

Although I know that there are other bottle-necks involved, wouldn't the Arcade Card's 18 megs allow for some decent fmv?

Yeah, it does, which is why 3x3 eyes has such nice FMV. Its still not full screen though. Even most of the 32-bit machines didn't have full screen FMV.

[Black Tiger]

What hardware assistance does the Sega-CD have other than 6 megs of ram?

The SegaCDs additional CPU (68000 @ 12.5mhz) can stream data from the CD and decode the compression scheme while the main CPU is free to do other tasks. The SegaCD CPU can also do tasks the main CPU normally does(and faster) or work simultaneously with it. It's a pretty powerful setup.

You know, I had always thought that the Sega-CD only raised the Genesis to 12.5mhz. Even though I'm again assuming that it's not as simple as it functioning as a second suped-up Genesis(bottlenecks, eblah, blah, blah...), that's still a lot of processor speed.

Sega must've either restricted how the Sega-CD's resources could be used(ala Supergrafx) or come up with some real bunk development libraries, 'cause that's a lot of processing speed.

After looking up it's specs again, I saw that supposedly, only one game used full screen fmv. I'm assuming then that all the other games that I seem to remember looking full screen were scaled up. Which would be another fmv assisting hardware advantage of the Sega-CD.

Yeah, it does, which is why 3x3 eyes has such nice FMV. Its still not full screen though. Even most of the 32-bit machines didn't have full screen FMV.

So 3x3 Eyes actually has real fmv? I thought that it was all realtime cinemas.

[malducci]

Yeah, it does, which is why 3x3 eyes has such nice FMV. Its still not full screen though. Even most of the 32-bit machines didn't have full screen FMV.

Ehh.. I wouldn't consider it FMV - more like really fluid animation stored in the AC memory. FMV is streamed to the video display in realtime. 3x3 eyes doesn't do this. SignOfZeta, check out Gulliver Boy. Now that's impressive.

[Joe Redifer]

Sega must've either restricted how the Sega-CD's resources could be used(ala Supergrafx) or come up with some real bunk development libraries, 'cause that's a lot of processing speed.

I think probably both.  They did it with the 32X, too.  Although somehow Core was able to find the correct path to the scaling chip inside the unit with Soul Star, Thunder Hawk/Strike, etc.  I think there might be an option #3... the machine was a bitch to work with (which of course is beget by the first two scenarios).

[grahf]

Ehh.. I wouldn't consider it FMV - more like really fluid animation stored in the AC memory. FMV is streamed to the video display in realtime. 3x3 eyes doesn't do this. SignOfZeta, check out Gulliver Boy. Now that's impressive.

Besides the huvideo, is the game itself any good? I actually just bought a copy on the cheap.

[GUTS]

Holy shit yeah, Core was able to pump out some amazing visuals in their Sega CD games.  Soulstar looks absolutely incredible for a 16bit game, Sega should really have funded those guys to make some first party games and they probably wouldn't have had to release the 32x.  Hell Soulstar looks better than most of the 32x games in my opinion.

I'll have to check out Gulliver Boy, I've always wanted to play a Duo game with actual FMV for some reason.  I remember reading that Hudson had come up with some impressive video compression scheme or something called HuVideo for that game and at least one more.

[Black Tiger]

Ehh.. I wouldn't consider it FMV - more like really fluid animation stored in the AC memory. FMV is streamed to the video display in realtime. 3x3 eyes doesn't do this. SignOfZeta, check out Gulliver Boy. Now that's impressive.

Besides the huvideo, is the game itself any good? I actually just bought a copy on the cheap.

Gulliver Boy is an awesome game. It's a Hudson/RED deal like the Tengai Makyou, Bonk and 'Thunder series'. Its hard to get through(I made it far and then got stuck) because it's fairly non-linear, but its fun.

There's a scene where you wind up in a colloseum and have to battle your way out in a mech which you ram through enemies Ys style.

[grahf]

Sounds pretty good. Is it heavy on kanji? I can handle hiragana and katakana, but i only know about 1% kanji For this reason, i was thinking about trying to play through Tenjai Makyou Zero on SFC instead of Manji or Kabuki, since Zero is pretty devoid of kanji.

[SignOfZeta]

Ehh.. I wouldn't consider it FMV - more like really fluid animation stored in the AC memory. FMV is streamed to the video display in realtime. 3x3 eyes doesn't do this. SignOfZeta, check out Gulliver Boy. Now that's impressive.

If the video comes from RAM, or a disk, its still video. 3x3 eyes definitely has video, and its much more impressive with the AC than when its just running as a Super CD.

[malducci]

Is it heavy on kanji?

 If I remember, not anymore than your average '94-95 title. There's a walkthrough for the game - < here >. I played good amount of game, it has beautiful graphics. I kid you not when I say " super nintendo graphics" - atleast IMO.]

 The weird thing is - back in the day I prefered heavily used kanji over hirogana/katakana. To me it was easier to translate as all of the hirogana had not spaces, so I couldn't tell were a word would begin and end. With kanji, the hriogana was used as a prefix or a suffix so it was easer to translate. I still have a few of my translated notes from Xanadu and Ys IV

If the video comes from RAM, or a disk, its still video. 3x3 eyes definitely has video, and its much more impressive with the AC than when its just running as a Super CD.

 Eveything is video in the end  But yeah, it's still not FMV - although it's damn fluid. I do have the arcade card, but man it takes for ever to buffer the scenes/animation. I actually like to play this on the emu though as the loading is hellava lot quicker


 Edit: Oh yeah, make no mistake - Gulliverboy is on my list of games to translate.

[Keranu]

Wow, this thread is a mess. I'll briefly sum up my thoughts on all the subjects talked about in this thread .

1. ) "Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?" - Most definitely, malducci and nodtveidt's posts give proof of that and shows how the PCE also has some advantages over both.

2. ) Memory expansions - PCE was far from being a failure in Japan and the reason it failed in the USA really had nothing to do with the memory expansions. In fact, the memory expansions for the PCE only helped it more in Japan, with the exception of the Arcade Card maybe. Memory expansions also didn't hurt the N64 sales either and the N64 still lived on quite well.

3. ) Sega CD - Sega CD is awesome. Lots of neat shooters and RPGs for it and if you are into cheese like me, you have a shit load of FMV titles to enjoy .

4. ) Best looking console - For me it's a tie between NES and PCE with CDROM2 briefcase. 80's-tastic.

5. ) Sturdiest console - Model 1 Genesis' are pretty good (though I have had a couple problems with them before), but the model 2's are absolute shite. My PCE and Duo have worked great ever since I got them. I only have a second model SNES, which has a couple of annoying problems, but I imagine the original models are a lot better.

6. ) Impressive-looking PC Engine games - There's plenty, here's a small list: Bomberman '94, Gates of Thunder (level 3, 5, 6 especially. They have my favorite backgrounds than any shooter), Lords of Thunder, Sapphire, Ys IV, Dodge Danpei, Shape Shifter, both Legend of Xanadus.

7. ) Legendary Axe II graphics - I always admired the unique graphic style in this game a lot.

8. ) Black_Tiger's Johnny Turbo references - lol

9. ) Exile has NES-level graphics - Big lol. I really like the graphics in the Turbo version of Exile, especially the parts with waterfalls but saying it looks like NES graphics is sooooo wrong . The Genesis version looks a lot worse than the Turbo version but it's still definitely a lot above NES level.

10. ) FMV Games - Everyone knows I love to play these, but what makes me mad is how everyone will STRONGLY diss a FMV game like Sewer Shark, yet rate a game like Revenge of the Ninja so awesomely when they  essentially share the same gameplay. I know most people won't find Sewer Shark's style as appealing as Revenge of the Ninja, but c'mon you should at least respect it somewhat if you are going to rate Revenge of the Ninja or Dragon's Lair so high .

11. ) Gulliver Boy - Wow I didn't know this game used FMV and thanks for making this game sound sweet. I will have to check this game out now.

[GUTS]

Sewer Shark is an ugly mess, if I'm going to watch video and press a button every few seconds I want something cool to look at, not the same length of grainy sewer over and over.  The Sega CD version of Road Avenger is the BEST fmv game ever made, btw.  Nothing is cooler than that intro song, it gets me so pumped to get revenge.

[Keranu]

I think Sewer Shark is cool to look at and it's hilariously cheesy. I like Revenge of the Ninja as well, but I prefer Shark's cheesy style over it any day.