Author Topic: Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?  (Read 6500 times)

malducci

  • Guest
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #180 on: August 23, 2006, 05:25:51 PM »
Keranu: Yeah, I was working the LoX:II translation. I put it on hold since the S-JIS text is compressed.  Dave(Shadoff) took a look at the compression scheme and noted that it wasn't the same as Ys IV or Emerald Dragon, though he did offer assistance for when I start working on it again. I'm working on Auleria currently and rapping up Spriggan Mark 2 - just waiting for the script from akamichi . Star Breaker is in the works as well - Motaw gave me the translated script from his old project.

 Runinruder: Do you have some pics of the game? It looks pretty cool, but I haven't gotten far. I was looking at the S-JIS text, seems to have a simple compression scheme.

Odonadon: Hehe, there's plenty of examples how the CPU was carelessly coded - i.e. slowdown. Then again same with SNES and MD. I actually learned some optimizing techniques from debugging game code. I have to be fair though, the 68000 has some advantages over huc6280 but there more of convience of coding or ease of use. The 68000 was very popular so more programmer were familiar with it too. The linear address is nice (no bank switching) as is the nice line of registers, but the huc6280 has zeropage (256 fast accessible slots in memory / pseudo regs) so I guess its a good trade off.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #181 on: August 23, 2006, 05:30:54 PM »
Quote
Agree with runinruder with BO. It looks awesome, but average at best game - couldn't get into it. The wasn't there a Zelda clone for Gen or was BO susposed to be it?


Raguna Centy/Crusader of Centy is the best most Zelda-y game for Genesis/MD that I can think of.

I haven't actually gotten around to playing it yet, but from what I know/seen about it, it's pretty close to the Zelda's, where as the Thor/Oasis games are more unique and/or Final Fight-y.

Keranu- I think that Anearth's battle system was reasonably traditional, but I didn't get too far into it the one time I played it.

But the battles look like Tales Of Phantasia, with large animated characters running across the screen to attack enemies. And I don't remember if TOP had it, but Anearth uses 3D'y warping floors like Street Fighter II.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

Keranu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9054
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2006, 05:52:02 PM »
What's that Zelda rip off for Genesis that's about the Bible? My friend was writing a walkthrough for that game or something, but I think stopped. Now that was a 16-bit game with NES graphics.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

PC Gaijin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #183 on: August 23, 2006, 06:14:58 PM »
Quote from: "malducci"
BTW: I'm stuck in Anearth Fantasy - nobody answers the babies cries int he beginning :x


It's been so long since I played Anearth, but I fired it up just to take a look at the graphics since Keranu mentioned it. Are you talking about right after the opening cutscene? Where the baby is left at the door of the church on a snowy night? Because a priest came out eventually and got the baby, then FF a few years to the baby as a young boy, and the game started. Maybe your copy is messed up?

Also, why are people using MIPS to compare performance between two different CPU architectures?

Joe Redifer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8178
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #184 on: August 23, 2006, 06:22:28 PM »
Quote from: "Digi.k"
haha someone post some genesis screenies of Afterburner and compare it.


haha ok:











Now before you start doing handsprings while singing "Genesis sucks" be aware that these two games here really don't take much advantage of either system.  Both could do much, much better.

Quote from: "malducci"
But we all know that any graphics the Gen can display(colors and res), the PCE can do as well

For still screens, definitely.  But what people seem to forget often on this board is that the Genesis could display an extra background whereas the Turbo had to use sprites to accomplish the same effects.  Because of this I think flicker was more prevelant in Turbo games that did this (***waits for someone to bring up Lords of Thunder***) and the Genesis didn't need to spend unnecessary sprites.  But if all you look at are colors and resolution, of course the Turbo can match and exceed the Genesis by quite a noticeable amount.

Keranu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9054
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #185 on: August 23, 2006, 06:31:28 PM »
Man, I always knew the PCE version of After Burner II looked nicer, but I wasn't aware of the Genesis version missing that much detail. But that goes without saying for a lot of early arcade ports for consoles.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #186 on: August 23, 2006, 06:33:26 PM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
Man, I always knew the PCE version of After Burner II looked nicer, but I wasn't aware of the Genesis version missing that much detail. But that goes without saying for a lot of early arcade ports for consoles.


The PCE version is also smoother(maybe just the screen spinning), which stands out the most when firing up one after the other.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

Keranu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9054
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #187 on: August 23, 2006, 06:35:00 PM »
Yeah I have compared them before and noticed the PCE version was smoother. I also like the music a lot more in the PCE one, but that's more of a personal preference.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Joe Redifer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8178
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #188 on: August 23, 2006, 06:36:38 PM »
The spinning screen is smooth on both, but the Genesis version rotates slowly (though still smoothly) when not in a barrel roll.  On still pictures the only real advantage the PCE has is the nice gradients at the horizon that are completely missing from the Genesis version.  The PCE has some nice (but slow) scaling of the Sega Enterprise and the refuel jets.  The landing strip isn't even in the Genesis version.

Both suck balls compared to the 32X version, anyway.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #189 on: August 23, 2006, 06:44:46 PM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
Yeah I have compared them before and noticed the PCE version was smoother. I also like the music a lot more in the PCE one, but that's more of a personal preference.


Yeah, I like the music in both versions and am glad that they're so different. I almost bought the Saturn version a few minutes ago during a Saturn shopping spree(if only to here the "arcade" music).

If anyone's intersted in hearing the soundtracks, both are up on my site(and currently in my car stereo).  :)
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

Keranu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9054
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #190 on: August 23, 2006, 06:47:43 PM »
Sweet I haven't checked your site in awhile, I didn't know you had the soundtracks for both of those. Last time I checked you had the Aero Blasters soundtrack up, which was nice. Keep up the fantastic work on the site, dude!
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Joe Redifer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8178
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #191 on: August 23, 2006, 06:55:16 PM »
I have the Saturn version as well as the 32X version (the sound is almost identical between the two).  I also have the Genesis version and the Master System version which has the melodies.  Does the PCE version have the melodies?  I really hate how they removed the melodies from After Burner 2.

Oh, and just for fun, more colors simultaneously doesn't always equal spooge-fest graphics.  It is probably more important to have better colors to choose from in the first place.  Here are some pics of a couple of Genesis games that put more than 64 colors onscreen simultaneously:


71 colors


70 colors


75 colors


95 colors


105 colors


163 colors

malducci

  • Guest
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #192 on: August 23, 2006, 07:43:40 PM »
Quote
Also, why are people using MIPS to compare performance between two different CPU architectures?


 Because games/systems in the 16bit era were not CPU intensive in the way it would be on a PC or MAC or even PS 2. Games in the 16bit era in general performed mostly of non complex instructions - alot of read/compare/add-sub/store. These can easily be converted to MIPS - average cycle of all instuctions divided by the number of cycles per second. It's not the end all, but it's a very good point of reference for speed between the two architectures since it applies more true to these games systems.

 But your right, they are two different architectures - each with there own strengths and weaknesses. Ofcourse anyway you look at it, the PCE and MD CPUs still faster than the NES and SNES.


Quote
For still screens, definitely. But what people seem to forget often on this board is that the Genesis could display an extra background whereas the Turbo had to use sprites to accomplish the same effects.


 Yeah, that's the PCE's achilles heel. That's why I love the SGX  :D
Another thing the Gen had was priority setting on the BG tiles. The PCE has to do a detection routine and use a sprite mask when the main sprite gets with in a few pixels of it - i.e. Ys I&II when Adol goes behind the BG parts - pillars, trees, etc.



Quote
Because of this I think flicker was more prevelant in Turbo games that did this (***waits for someone to bring up Lords of Thunder***) and the Genesis didn't need to spend unnecessary sprites. But if all you look at are colors and resolution, of course the Turbo can match and exceed the Genesis by quite a noticeable amount.


 Gen also ran standard in 340/320 x 224 mode which really helped it out. Both has the same sprite to scanline limit, but the Gen can have 8x8 sprite size. This seems like a dis-advantage, but it's not. The PCE can have 16 16x16(min) sprites and the Gen 20 8x8(min) sprites. On the PCe if you have a bullet the size of 4x4, it takes the whole 16x16 space. So on a shooter with 8x8 or smaller bullets, the Gen could have more smaller sprites on a scanline before flicker starts to happen. GOT and LOT are good examples of designing around limitation, instead of just running a scripted game without concern for limitations.

 There are some plus' on the PCE side video side - you can write to the video memory at any time, the video processor has it's own DMA independent of the CPU, the tile map can address a tile anywhere in video memory, sprites size up to 32x64, sprites have there own palette (256colors) that is seperate than the back ground palette entry(256), background tile map up to 128x64(1024x512 pixels), block transfer (DMA) instruction to and from video memory.


 Joe: Besides the vectorman pics, the others look good.


Quote
Because a priest came out eventually and got the baby, then FF a few years to the baby as a young boy, and the game started. Maybe your copy is messed up?


 Hehe, maybe I didn't wait long enough.

Joe Redifer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8178
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #193 on: August 23, 2006, 08:56:03 PM »
Quote from: "malducci"
Joe: Besides the vectorman pics, the others look good.

Yeah, that's what I mean.  Vectorman looks like ass, yet it has 70 colors or more onscreen pretty much throughout the entire game.

T2KFreeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
Pc engine on par technically with snes / genesis ?
« Reply #194 on: August 23, 2006, 09:09:20 PM »
Truthfully, I could care less which machine is more powerful than the other, I just like my Turbo machines more, again, personal preference, but it's the truth, it had better games for the most part, at least I thought so. Of all three, the SNES is my least favorite as it stunk of Corporate America, well here in the US at least, and corporate isn't always good, and usually never is! :evil:
END OF LINE.