Author Topic: Kickstarting translation projects?  (Read 2253 times)

Necromancer

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2015, 05:59:06 AM »
Hahaha, coming soon ... Tobias's announcement of the "official" PCE Memories "limited edition" Ys IV translation.

It'll look beautiful on your shelves, folks ... and at such a "reasonable" price!  #-o

So reasonable he's practically losing money on it!  :lol:

Just in case N.W. missed it, Puff the Magic Collectard is a 99 percenter.
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True Puffer

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2015, 06:18:03 AM »
You guys are funny but i am serious.  [-(

elmer

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2015, 06:57:35 AM »
You guys are funny but i am serious.  [-(
I know that I really shouldn't .... but OK, I'll bite and take you seriously.

You'll be happy to hear that you'll soon get the chance to buy Ys IV in a pretty package to put on your shelf, and you won't have to waste any of your money at all by donating to the guys that actually did the translation! A double-win for you!  :roll:

You can read all about it here ...

https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18596.0

The thread is a bit long, but I promise that if you keep reading, you'll get to the part about Ys IV.


Since you also seem to want SamIAm to get off his lazy ass and finish both "Anearth Fantasy Stories" and "Legend of Xanadu II" for your enjoyment, you can read about what has been taking all his time (and so selfishly delaying the progress on the other games) here ...

https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19035.0

If you read far enough, it'll give you some idea of his position on repros/bootlegs.


Donations and patch purchases doesn't look good on my shelf.  [-X
I'd like to thank you for your true understanding of why it is that the people doing the translations, and the people that originally made the games, actually put in all their hard work!  #-o

SamIAm

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2015, 03:54:49 PM »
I could spend hours replying to this. Instead, I'll keep it as short as I can.

Xanadu II and Anearth Fantasy Stories, and other projects too, are starved for hackers above all. I only translate Japanese to English. By the way, Xanadu II's English script is totally done, but the project is in limbo waiting for someone to hack that script into the game. I love Esperknight, the guy who has been the hacker so far, but his output volume isn't exactly high, and he seems to be stuck on a technical hangup.

Translation patches are basically the product of two-man hacker/translator teams. I have the endurance to work on this stuff for long hours every week, which is what it takes, but I need someone who can volley my efforts back at me. That's what makes the difference in motivation for me.

Money just isn't something I've spent time thinking about. As long as someone next to me is working hard and we're achieving real results together, that's all I need. That and a good game, of course, but there are a lot of those.

Fortune has smiled upon me recently and sent a sublime programmer my way, and together, we are about to release a translation Zeroigar on the PC-FX. I never dreamed it would look this good. I think you guys will love it.

After that, who knows what will happen...


I'm not going to lie: If I could do this work legitimately for a living, I would. However, achieving true legitimacy is incredibly difficult. I can't imagine it happening without the blessing of the people who hold the license of the original game. Supposing that they can even be tracked down, they're probably a bunch of boring old suits who would either demand impossible terms or would simply say "no".

Translations of any written work do not qualify as original works themselves; permission must be obtained from the source's author. So even free translation projects are well in the legal grey area.

Setting aside whether its really ethical to make money off of someone else's work like that, though, there's also the uncomfortable fact that you risk attracting some dubious bedfellows. I'm speaking, of course, about repro dealers. There's no question that what they do is illegal. As long as we release translation patches for free, we can thumb our noses at them (and will). But should we start accepting money for our work, it would be that much more difficult to distinguish what we do from what they do. At the very least, we would have to make a constant fuss about about only applying the patches to backups of legitimately acquired games.

My further thoughts on repros can be found here.

Certainly, if any license holder decided to threaten me with a lawsuit, you can bet that I would fold faster than Superman on laundry day. You can also be sure that the romhacking community, which has been making free translation patches for 20 years or so now, would react with hostility to someone trying to make large amounts of money from patches. It makes sense: that draws the Zeus-like giant corporations a little nearer to raining legal lightning bolts down on all of them.

Then there's the final issue: Could two people really make a decent living creating translation patches? Even if we were working full time, getting more than three translation patches done per year would not be easy. Four months salary for two professionals is a lot. A few hundred people giving an average $20 each isn't going to cut it. You'd need either more people or more money per person, and I'm not sure we could really muster that.

I appreciate it when people offer to show their gratitude by making donations, but all in all, I'm afraid that money would just poison the well.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 04:33:04 PM by SamIAm »

True Puffer

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2015, 04:15:28 PM »

You can read all about it here ...

https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18596.0.

I didn't go through all 26 pages but i found few interesting points.


Xak III is my issue and the fact that this f--k is likely getting ready to press Ys IV down the road, and so my hopes of eventually doing it myself someday, the right way (partly), by contacting members that can be, taking votes, working out deals, redubbing any voice actor who refused inclusion (e.g. like BurntLasagna's brother for a soldier character I'd definitely have to redub), etc. that's all dashed as I don't think I could ever catch up to this guy's expertise in doing this and I'm far too busy to even try this year!

If he couldn't do it himself he could strike a deal with some repro manufacturer before releasing it for free.

He does it because as we have seen, there is a demand for these...https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=17720.0

Not everyone can recreate a disc like this, and sure he is making a tidy profit, but that's only because people are paying.

I love this system and I am eager to see the coming translations...however either they need to be done in secret or done without worrying about one shitty profiteer.

There always will be people who want to profit from this because there is a demand for it and instead of hiding and doing it in secret just do it yourself and give people what they want, a nice packaging and use the money to fund other projects!

My wholle point is that donations and charity are not sufficient if someone publish his work for free. Imagine if Nintendo gave their games for free and expected to make a profit from donations.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 04:38:34 PM by True Puffer »

True Puffer

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2015, 04:57:23 PM »
I'm not going to lie: If I could do this work legitimately for a living, I would. However, achieving true legitimacy is incredibly difficult.

Translations of any written work do not qualify as original works themselves; permission must be obtained from the source's author. So even free translation projects are well in the legal grey area.

Setting aside whether its really ethical to make money off of someone else's work like that, though, there's also the uncomfortable fact that you risk attracting some dubious bedfellows. I'm speaking, of course, about repro dealers.

The legal responsibility is on the person who sells. If you strike an exclusive deal with Tobias (before you release both patches for free) if anything happens, it's on him. He is responsible!

Xanadu II and Anearth Fantasy are the two hottest pce rpg's and i am sure they could generate 10k+ profits. You can use these funds to hire a hacker of your choice and finish the work but if you want to do it legit you can use the Kickstarter to fund the project. I am the first who will support that!

Imagine if Xanadu II and Anearth Fantasy get retro release like Pier Solar did. I didn't get a chance to even purchase Pier Solar back in the day they were all gone before i could type in my credit card information!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 05:04:38 PM by True Puffer »

BigusSchmuck

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2015, 05:08:25 PM »
I'm not going to lie: If I could do this work legitimately for a living, I would. However, achieving true legitimacy is incredibly difficult.

Translations of any written work do not qualify as original works themselves; permission must be obtained from the source's author. So even free translation projects are well in the legal grey area.

Setting aside whether its really ethical to make money off of someone else's work like that, though, there's also the uncomfortable fact that you risk attracting some dubious bedfellows. I'm speaking, of course, about repro dealers.

The legal responsibility is on the person who sells. If you strike an exclusive deal with Tobias (before you release both patches for free) if anything happens, it's on him. He is responsible!

Xanadu II and Anearth Fantasy are the two hottest pce rpg's and i am sure they could generate 10k+ profits. You can use these funds to hire a hacker of your choice and finish the work but if you want to do it legit you can use the Kickstarter to fund the project. I am the first who will support that!

Imagine if Xanadu II and Anearth Fantasy get retro release like Pier Solar did. I didn't get a chance to even purchase Pier Solar back in the day they were all gone before i could type in my credit card information!

Uh I don't think people want the men in black knocking on their doors.

Black Tiger

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2015, 05:43:31 PM »
Holy f*ck. I can't bring myself to post anything serious or sarcastic. It's been a long time since someone so aggressively oblivious has hit the ground running like this. Bravo True Collectard. :clap:

We really need to start updating the Hall of Shame.
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Punch

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2015, 05:50:06 PM »

The legal responsibility is on the person who sells. If you strike an exclusive deal with Tobias (before you release both patches for free) if anything happens, it's on him. He is responsible!

Xanadu II and Anearth Fantasy are the two hottest pce rpg's and i am sure they could generate 10k+ profits.

oh my god


Black Tiger

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2015, 06:22:39 PM »
Exactly! Who pays for patches anyway? I have a 3ds and every game i bought was a physical copy and i love buying video games! Same goes for retro games! What these guys need (and by guys i mean translators) is a way to the market. The most profitable market in retro gaming is collectors market dealing with tangible items. I cann't wait to put it on my shelf along with my other games. Imagine the Working Designs style packaging of Ys 4!

We don't need to imagine, Vic posted the cover art for the 100% translated, yet unreleased TurboDuo Ys IV on the old Working Designs website years ago.


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True Puffer

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2015, 06:23:44 PM »
Bravo True Collectard. :clap:

We really need to start updating the Hall of Shame.

Thank you Black Tiger i am honoured. It's a shame Vic never released it and NightWolve never got a cut for his hard work.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 06:26:06 PM by True Puffer »

esteban

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2015, 12:07:42 AM »
TrueHeffer: Stop now. You have clearly NOT considered the long-term ramifications of your posts/arguments.

If you actually want to see MORE translation/dubbing projects in the future, then stop being so willfully ignorant & selfish.

Re-read Sam's post IN THIS THREAD. He explained things so clearly.



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Necromancer

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2015, 02:20:05 AM »
This goober has got to be trolling.  Even accounting for English presumably not being his first language, nobody can be this stupid.
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BigusSchmuck

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2015, 02:42:00 AM »
This goober has got to be trolling.  Even accounting for English presumably not being his first language, nobody can be this stupid.
You would be surprised (Mad Pooper anyone?). Had a doctor call me up asking what his password was for his personal pc last week and the same doctor bitching to IT Pandora wasn't working on that same day. Even worse it was on a Mac Book, the true pc for dummies. To top it off this doc is a god damn brain surgeon. Ugh.

Black Tiger

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Re: Kickstarting translation projects?
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2015, 02:44:20 AM »
This goober has got to be trolling.  Even accounting for English presumably not being his first language, nobody can be this stupid.

Although this is if anything, a watered down version of the collectards in other forums, after skimming over more of the posts it's way too conveniently tailored to recent sensitivities in particular and not just a general caricature. The posts isolated to particular threads makes it all the more obvious. But who has the energy to put in this kind work just make people's eyes roll?
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