Author Topic: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora  (Read 1729 times)

EmperorIng

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Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« on: July 29, 2015, 02:14:20 PM »
I've been playing this game to decide whether or not I'd like to buy it. I somewhat enjoyed the two hours I spent with the game revved up in Ootake, but I thought I'd ask some questions to get a better handle on progressing through the game.

1) Is there any consequence for attacking NPCs other than that they all rush you and magically gain stats higher than the overworld monsters?

I ask this because the game seems to want you to grind, and at the start of the game monsters give 1 or 2 EXP. Killing the soldiers in the town, however, yields 20ish EXP. Why not? Unless there is some negative consequence (shops not selling you or killing important NPCs). I don't suspect a game this old to have that feature, but I thought I'd ask.

2) Am I stuck playing as one character the whole game? Or is it possible to switch between the two at some point?

3) Thus far I have only found items (little grass leaves?) that replenish magic. Leveling up or going to the HP-restoring house in town does not restore MP either. Are there places that sell or restore MP, or should I play more conservatively?

So far, perhaps thanks to my lack of language knowledge, my estimation of the game isn't as high as the pages of praise the Brothers Duo lavish on the game, but it's not bad (the short range of your slash though, is less enjoyable).

VenomMacbeth

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 04:56:09 PM »
Ditto, I haven't played this game yet but the answers to these questions will help sway my decision to do so.  It looks like a fun action RPG & what's-his-name (the Jimmy Happa Mobie guy) spoke highly of it.
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A Black Falcon

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2015, 08:09:56 PM »
For question 1, I wouldn't know, I'd rather not kill civilians.

For question 2, as far as I can tell the only way to "swap" is to play in the two player co-op mode... of course this requires two humans, though. :)

Question 3... good question.  I presume eventually you can buy the MP-heal herbs?


As for me, I like the game, but it's WAY too grindey.  I mean, all you do is just grind, grind, grind, often without even moving -- grind up on waves of enemies from points you can do that so that you'll be able to move forward, and then repeat.  I think I'm still pretty early in the game, but it';s frustrating so even though it is good I'm still in that stone castle environment.  I just played the game a bit, currently I';m at a boss where the guy chases you around the room and kills you while a row of archers on top of the screen fire down.  No clue how to not die here.  The new scythe-shot magic I got right next to there didn't help. (Did I miss a spell somewhere?  I know you get spells from going to specific rooms.  I have the heal and this one, but there's a blank spot in between the two...)  Bah.

EmperorIng

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 02:07:18 AM »
You gain spells as you level up. There is a Phoenix spell that helps with the fight. However you have to kill the archers first to survive. You have to bait the main soldier into not moving horizontally - if you keep moving up and down he'll do the same.

What helps is watching a play through of the game on niconico, which to my knowledge is the only play through of the game online. The guy however grinds to level 12  at the first screen of the game before taking on the castle. I was at level 9, but I was killing guards to speed up the process.

It's a little ridiculous that NPCs yield a better exp load than the castle full of monsters next door.

NPCs respawn when you leave an area which makes me suspect that it has no effect. I'm not 100% sure though (hence the thread).
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 02:09:25 AM by EmperorIng »

A Black Falcon

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 12:35:57 PM »
You gain spells as you level up.
Really?  So far the two spells I have I got from talking to people in certain rooms, not levelling up.

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There is a Phoenix spell that helps with the fight.
Where/what level? I'm currently level 5.

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However you have to kill the archers first to survive. You have to bait the main soldier into not moving horizontally - if you keep moving up and down he'll do the same.

What helps is watching a play through of the game on niconico, which to my knowledge is the only play through of the game online. The guy however grinds to level 12  at the first screen of the game before taking on the castle. I was at level 9, but I was killing guards to speed up the process.
Level 9+?  This game really is nothing but grind, isn't it... too bad, it's otherwise fun.  But just standing there grinding, I hate that...

Black Tiger

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 12:39:29 PM »
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You can partake in the madness by butchering townspeople (for lots of experience points in some instances), but their friends will hound you and attempt to murder you in turn. If you're like me, you'll enjoy E&J's dark side; but others may find the game strange and ugly.


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EmperorIng

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2015, 05:04:12 PM »
@Black Tiger

The review is the reason I am interested in the game (as per my OP), because it is quite effusive in praise. I suppose if there were any other negative side affects, the Duo brothers might have mentioned them? Either way, I feel far less bad about killing respawning NPCs when the game is so stingy with assistance.

@Black Falcon

I thought I had just gained them through leveling. I am not sure if talking triggered anything. I talked to every NPC in the large village and the old man who triggers that long cutscene (where Jiliora runs off). I think I gained the phoenix spell by leveling up; at least I thought that happened with the Japanese player.

On the plus side camping at a map edge (like the top-left edge in the map south of the town) allowed me to go back and forth killing the random guard and level up very quickly. Other than that you might be stuck camping at that corner of the castle while monsters stream out.

A Black Falcon

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2015, 08:04:28 PM »
I thought I had just gained them through leveling. I am not sure if talking triggered anything. I talked to every NPC in the large village and the old man who triggers that long cutscene (where Jiliora runs off). I think I gained the phoenix spell by leveling up; at least I thought that happened with the Japanese player.
No, not from NPCs in the towns, from rooms out in the levels.  I'm pretty certain the first spell, the healing spell, came from a specific room in the first area, the one before you get to the city.  And then the scythe-shot came from the room next to the boss room I'm stuck at, the one with the soldier and archers in it.  That sure seems to me how I got the two spells I have.

On a related note, does the scythe shot even hurt enemies?  It doesn't seem to do much of anything, against the boss at least...

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On the plus side camping at a map edge (like the top-left edge in the map south of the town) allowed me to go back and forth killing the random guard and level up very quickly. Other than that you might be stuck camping at that corner of the castle while monsters stream out.
I honestly don't understand why they'd require you to grind as much as you have to in this game.  I want to be able to fight a boss once I can reach it!

Necromancer

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 03:17:34 AM »
I beat it and don't recall having to excessively grind; maybe a bit above average for rpgs of the day, but I've seen worse.  Are you trying to bull rush your way through the game by vastly overpowering enemies instead of developing effective tactics?

As for killing villagers, I don't think it matters long term.  Leave town and return and they'll forget you're a murderer.  :mrgreen:
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A Black Falcon

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 12:40:56 PM »
I beat it and don't recall having to excessively grind; maybe a bit above average for rpgs of the day, but I've seen worse.
Well, most RPGs from back then are horribly grindey, so this really doesn't let the game off the hook at all.  I'm not exactly a fan of most 3rd/4th-gen RPGs, some action-RPGs aside.  Even my favorite 4th-gen RPGs, the Lunar games on Sega CD, the repetition of the endless battles gets old.  And even there, when the games get grindey I stop playing -- this is why I dropped Secret of Mana for SNES midway, for exaple, the grinding required got really tedious.

Think of my favorite console game series, Zelda -- you don't need to turn around and grind up levels after reaching the boss room in a dungeon, you can just go in and fight the boss (provided you've found the required dungeon item).  That's how I'd want a game to play.  But with games like this one or Secret of Mana that regularly gets you killed.  Go level up.

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Are you trying to bull rush your way through the game by vastly overpowering enemies instead of developing effective tactics?
If just trying to get through the levels is a bad tactic then that's the game's fault (for being designed around grind instead of moving forward), but otherwise I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

I mean, I got to this boss I'm at, the one with the row of archers, at level 5, and that's with a bit of grinding -- I had to grind up several levels in order to be high enough level to make it through that long passage at the start of the action area with this boss in it, right after you leave the town.

As for tactics and strategy, this is a fairly simple game so there isn't all that much to it. 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 12:45:01 PM by A Black Falcon »

Necromancer

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2015, 08:47:59 PM »
I guess the Ys games suck too, right?  All that grinding!  :roll:

If you're rushing ahead so you get swarmed by enemies instead of fighting 'em one at a time, that's a bad tactic.  If you walk over all the environmental hazards instead of dodging them, that's a bad tactic.  If you run at enemies pell mell, slashing away wildly instead of timing your attacks so only the enemy takes damage, that's a bad tactic.  If you can't figure out how to use magic and items effectively, that's a bad tactic.

Honestly it sounds like this game is too much for you.  Turn it off and go play Dragon Egg or Mystic Quest.
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A Black Falcon

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2015, 09:57:29 PM »
I guess the Ys games suck too, right?  All that grinding!  :roll:
Ys... I definitely have mixed feelings for that series.  On the one hand, basically the entire series is almost 100% grind, but on the other hand it's mostly very well-designed and polished grinding, so it's more fun than most.  Still, I have never finished an Ys game.  Hopefully I will eventually, I am partway through several of them.  I like Ys I for the Master System for some reason, that's probably the Ys game I am farthest in.  (Of course, I like Efera & Jiliora too, grinding aside.)

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If you're rushing ahead so you get swarmed by enemies instead of fighting 'em one at a time, that's a bad tactic.  If you walk over all the environmental hazards instead of dodging them, that's a bad tactic.  If you run at enemies pell mell, slashing away wildly instead of timing your attacks so only the enemy takes damage, that's a bad tactic.  If you can't figure out how to use magic and items effectively, that's a bad tactic.

Honestly it sounds like this game is too much for you.  Turn it off and go play Dragon Egg or Mystic Quest.
Most of the things you say here you really can't do in this game, so there's no need to be so insulting.

Rushing ahead -- You really can't do that in this game, you'll die.  You don't have much health early in the game.  You also can't really move while attacking, attacking causes you to stand still.  This isn't Ys.  Facing more than one enemy at a time is almost certain death unless you have plenty of room to move around in or you're in a place they can't easily get to.  You've got to take your time and find a place you can take them out from without them swarming you.  Maybe the warrior is better at dealing with multiple enemies, but I'm playing the mage.

As for "slashing away wildly instead of timing your attacks so only the enemy takes damage", I don't know what you're talking about there.  Again, you can't just charge enemies, you'll die.  Enemies charge straight at you when they see you, you press down the attack button to attack them when they get in range (while trying to do so from a position where another enemy won't get too close before the first one is dead, since you an only hit one at a time), there isn't much more to it than that.

Environmental hazards - there aren't many of those so far in this game, but of course you avoid them, what are you talking about?  Taking damage is very bad in a game where only a couple of hits kills!

Magic and items - Items heal you.  Magic, one spell heals and the other is a very basic short-range attack.  There is more magic later, but I don't have it yet.  Nothing there of any complexity or challenge to learn.  Easier ways to heal your magic, and more spells from early on, would be things I'd have loved to see in this game, I like magic systems (best of all, for me, is D&D's).


Really, is it so hard to understand?  I expect that once I get to the end of an area in action-RPGs through normal, reasonable play, I should be able to continue on, fight the boss, and progress.  But instead, in games like Ys or Efera & Jiliora, it doesn't work like that at all.  You need to stand around grinding for some time before you are able to compete in each area, or against each boss.  It's a design style that covers for the moderately-sized levels and limited amount of content or puzzles with high jumps in required level between each area or bossfight in the game.  Newer games would at least probably give you alternate tasks to do, quests in the current area and the like, but these early games have none of that. Note how the Niconico playthrough of this game apparently has the guy start by grinding to level 12 right at the start!  It's got very little to do with how quickly you get through an area.  Quickly or slowly, unless you stand around grinding a lot, you'll be far too low level to progress.  I know plenty of people don't mind this, but I always have.

wildfruit

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2015, 10:40:05 PM »
I like this sort of punishment. I'm going to get this and enjoy it.

Necromancer

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2015, 10:58:07 PM »
Most of the things you say here you really can't do in this game, so there's no need to be so insulting.

You most certainly can do those things, but you'll pay for it and therefor shouldn't, which was my point.  What do you think "bad tactic" means?!?  Bro, do you even english?

The bulk of your post isn't worth discussing.  Contrary to your repeated claims of you not 'understanding what I'm talking about', you obviously did but just want to argue non-points.

Really, is it so hard to understand?

Nope, I get that you're an rpg wuss that can't handle a little grinding.  Not being able to beat Ys is a dead giveaway, as those games are quite easy and comparatively light on grinding.  The vast majority of RPGs require grinding to some extent or another anyway, so you whining and crying about it is akin to complaining that there's too many bullets in a bullet hell shewty.
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esteban

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Re: Some questions about playing Efera & Jiliora
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2015, 11:11:23 PM »

Really, is it so hard to understand?

Nope, I get that you're an rpg wuss that can't handle a little grinding.  Not being able to beat Ys is a dead giveaway, as those games are quite easy and comparatively light on grinding.  The vast majority of RPGs require grinding to some extent or another anyway, so you whining and crying about it is akin to complaining that there's too many bullets in a bullet hell shewty.

THIS.

Falcon, nothing more needs to be said. Ys games are easy, save for an occasional segment (such as a final boss) that might require some genuinely dexterous maneuvers.

Let's move on...
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