Author Topic: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?  (Read 2278 times)

savageone

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2015, 06:25:14 AM »
Ya know thinking about it... I know it was far more important in the TG16's case but as far as pack-ins they absolutely killed it with the Duo didn't they?

Specifically the one with Ninja Spirit as the pack-in hucard. Ninja Spirit, Ys 1/2, Bonk 1/2, and Gate of Thunder... Wow. Maybe it was desperation and too late but that might just be the best pack-in game set that I can think of.

Honorable mentions:
Genesis w/ Sonic 1/2
Super Nintendo w/ All Stars / World (bonus points if Wal Mart strapped a Super Games Boy to it.

esteban

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2015, 06:37:02 AM »

Ya know thinking about it... I know it was far more important in the TG16's case but as far as pack-ins they absolutely killed it with the Duo didn't they?

Specifically the one with Ninja Spirit as the pack-in hucard. Ninja Spirit, Ys 1/2, Bonk 1/2, and Gate of Thunder... Wow. Maybe it was desperation and too late but that might just be the best pack-in game set that I can think of.

Honorable mentions:
Genesis w/ Sonic 1/2
Super Nintendo w/ All Stars / World (bonus points if Wal Mart strapped a Super Games Boy to it.

The NA TurboDUO pack-ins destroy all other pack-ins, but I feel like it was not the same as a the launch of a brand-new platform, so it wasn't exactly the same as the initial launch pack-ins for NES, TG-16, Genesis, Sega-CD, etc. that literally introduced a platform to North America.

That is, I am making a distinction between the huge category of "pack-in games in general" vs. "pack-in for initial-launch-only"

Both categories are interesting to discuss :)
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lukester

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2015, 06:40:22 AM »
Black Tiger, even when I agree with you on some things, you always say I'm wrong. It's getting old.

Keith Courage was a terrible pack in, I agree. But R-Type isn't necessarily the best choice. As Grolt said, R-Type is not an accessible game for the average person.

Please don't act like Astayanax is a good nes game. It's absolute trash and certainly doesn't deserve its underrated status it has been receiving lately. Legendary Axe is a very different, and much better game in every aspect. An A class game.

By that same logic, why do you think R-Type is a good choice when you already know it came out on the master system.

The people who gave Legendary Axe such glowing reviews compared the game to Rastan. That's something you can't disprove.

People wanted platformers more than shooters in the Anerican market. Mario, mega man and castlevania were all very popular. So was Gradius, but it didn't create a wave of copycats like Mario did.

Let's not forget that R-Type actually received some negative complaints. NEC was getting a large amount of calls from people upset about the flicker in the game. Legendary Axe didn't have any technical problems.

DragonmasterDan

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2015, 06:50:56 AM »
The short answer is that until Bonk's Adventure came out there was no "perfect" Pack-in.

I think the four best launch window games, R-Type, Blazing Lazers, Alien Crush and Legendary Axe are too niche in appeal.
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gheebee

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2015, 06:51:47 AM »
They did, and he was.

(1) TG-16 + Bonk's Adventure + Keith Courage (I'm looking for ad...)

(2) TG-16 + Bonk's Revenge + Keith Courage = $99.99 (early 1992?)

http://archives.tg-16.com/EB/EB_1992_03_021.jpg


Nice! I remember being a bit disappointed that I got Keith Courage in Alpha Zones with mine and had to buy Bonk's Adventure separately.

o.pwuaioc

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2015, 06:58:14 AM »
People wanted platformers more than shooters in the Anerican market. Mario, mega man and castlevania were all very popular. So was Gradius, but it didn't create a wave of copycats like Mario did.
I guess technically you're right. It was Scramble that created the wave of copycats, and Gradius was riding high. Gradius, Twinbee, and Xevious all sold over a million NES carts.

Granted that's not system-selling numbers compared to the Mario sequels, Tetris, or Metroid, but it's respectable.

I think were I running NEC with hindsight for my benefit, I'd release just a console, no pack-in title, but give out a coupon for one of three choices: Power Golf, Keith Courage, or Legendary Axe. As soon as Bonk hit the shelves, that would be the pack-in game, not unlike how Sega switched out Altered Beast for Sonic the Hedgehog.

esteban

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What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2015, 07:00:08 AM »
...
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 07:04:41 AM by esteban »
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esteban

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What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2015, 07:02:10 AM »

They did, and he was.

(1) TG-16 + Bonk's Adventure + Keith Courage (I'm looking for ad...)

(2) TG-16 + Bonk's Revenge + Keith Courage = $99.99 (early 1992?)

http://archives.tg-16.com/EB/EB_1992_03_021.jpg


Nice! I remember being a bit disappointed that I got Keith Courage in Alpha Zones with mine and had to buy Bonk's Adventure separately.


^ gheebee! I updated that post with a link to 1991? Bonk's Adventure free w/ system


NOTE: Sadly, sending away for a free game is NOT the same as a pack-in...I'm not sure the items I linked to are actual "pack-ins" vs. "wait several weeks/months for mail delivery"




People wanted platformers more than shooters in the Anerican market. Mario, mega man and castlevania were all very popular. So was Gradius, but it didn't create a wave of copycats like Mario did.

I guess technically you're right. It was Scramble that created the wave of copycats, and Gradius was riding high. Gradius, Twinbee, and Xevious all sold over a million NES carts.

Granted that's not system-selling numbers compared to the Mario sequels, Tetris, or Metroid, but it's respectable.

I think were I running NEC with hindsight for my benefit, I'd release just a console, no pack-in title, but give out a coupon for one of three choices: Power Golf, Keith Courage, or Legendary Axe. As soon as Bonk hit the shelves, that would be the pack-in game, not unlike how Sega switched out Altered Beast for Sonic the Hedgehog.


You want a person to be able to play the console immediately!

You can still have a free game giveaway (based on person's preferences), but IT IS SO MUCH MORE FUN TO PLAY IMMEDIATELY!

:)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 07:05:51 AM by esteban »
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VenomMacbeth

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What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2015, 07:12:53 AM »
Personally, if we're only talking about Turbo games, then I would have to go with Legendary Axe.  They needed a good platformer to start off with, and Axe is unanimously better than KC.  I think it definitely has the biggest "wow" factor of all the launch games, and the Conan-esque theme would have vibed better with US audiences than the somewhat whacky Japanese theme of Keith Courage.


If time weren't a factor, I think Genji Tsuushin Agedama would have made for a much better localization for a U.S. Pack-in than KC.  It's based on an equally-relevant anime/manga series, but is probably about twice as fun.  It's also way less unforgiving difficulty-wise (some might say too easy) and better graphically.
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johnnykonami

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2015, 07:16:25 AM »
I feel like we just talked about this not a week or two ago, but I think KC was a pretty perfect fit.  It's what sold me on the TG-16 from the TV commercials, so it at least worked on my young gullible ass.  And I had a reasonably good time playing through it despite some overworld tedium.

R-type, on the other hand I remember getting pretty pissed at, even though I eventually beat it through sheer determination.  I feel like it would have made a lot of unhappy kids because of it's difficulty.

Dungeon Explorer would have been a great choice, but as someone pointed out, a little on the graphically unimpressive side.  Still, a title I enjoyed playing a lot.  In retrospect, this is the game I would have liked to get with the system given the choice.

I personally got Alien Crush right away as my extra game when I got the TG-16, so I loved it, but a pinball pack-in just wasn't right for the overall gaming populace at that point.  I think it had to be a platformer considering the competition at the time.  And Legendary Axe would have been a great alternative to Keith, can't deny that.

Black Tiger

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2015, 07:25:59 AM »
Some people like to say that R-Type was on SMS and therefore that somehow ruins it as a pack-in and how the TurboGrafx-16 really needed an exclusive arcade port pack-in like Altered Beast...


-which was alson on SMS. :roll:

Apples and oranges there.  Altered Beast is a SEGA property and had brand exclusivity - it wasn't on any competing consoles (in the US).  R-Type was previously released (in a pretty solid port, nonetheless) on an older, less powerful SEGA console.  In addition, Altered Beast on the SMS is a severely handcuffed game - it is missing multiple levels, single-player only and a huge step down in graphics.  If anything, having a far inferior version of Altered Beast on an older console only helped SEGA to tout the power of their new system.  Looking at R-Type, many praise Compile's work in porting the game to the SMS - it's the complete game (which the PC Engine can't even claim, at least on a HuCard) and even adds in a bonus level not found in the arcade or the TG-16 port.  There's no question the TG-16 version is graphically superior, but it's far less impressive of a jump than Altered Beast SMS to Genesis, and many would argue the SMS's FM sound is more appealing than the sound on the TG-16 version.  In my opinion, even if R-Type were a far better game on the TG-16 (which it is not), launching with a game found on the competition's system (that's 5 years older than your current flagship) just cannot happen.

Ignoring the entire Altered Beast/R-Type port debate, shooters, especially at that time, were far more niche than platformers or action games.  There's a higher barrier for entry, since those games are generally more difficult (and in R-Type's case, definitely) than your typical platformer or hack and slash game.  Plop a kid in front of Keith Courage and s/he could do okay, but R-Type would be over in a matter of seconds.  Even though it's an inferior game, Keith Courage would have more appeal to a broader audience than R-Type, which I'm sure weighed on NEC's decision.

The topic is about what pack-in the TurboGrafx-16 should have launched with. The PC Engine versions have nothing to do with this discussion, aside from the impact the game had for the PCE.

Most people in North America did not know that the Sega Master System even existed. The SMS also does not have FM sound. Altered Beast is a slow clunky game in any form. R-Type TG-16 is at least as much of an improvement over the SMS version and delivers much more  of an arcade experience.

I rented a Genesis with Altered Beast at launch and got one by the end of the year. Altered Beast looked poor in color and shading and created the impression for me that the Genesis was like the NES and had weird unique color limitations. Altered Beast was a newer arcade, but was just gimmicky and not the kind of long lasting hit that R-Type was, nor was it as influential (or at all). R-Type has a major place in gaming hostory. Altered Beast is only remembered for being the initial pack-in of a console that eventually became successful, right around the time they dropped Altered Beast as the pack-in.

Shooters weren't niche until late in the 16-bit generation. When the Genesis and TG-16 launched, shooters were just considered normal games. R-Type is only really difficult for people used to loose games and refuse to pay attention. At the time, R-Type was easier than many NES games.

I'm one of the few people who appreciate Keith Courage and it was part of what converted me from Genesis as it had the things I had really wanted in next gen games that I wasn't getting on Genesis. I totally get why they picked it and think it's much better as a game and pack-in than Altered Beast. From a business perspective, R-Type makes the most sense as a pack-in from what was available. Altered Beast got tired quick. It didn't work out well for the consumer. It's impact was simply luring in people to buy the console. R-Type was at least as attractive. The fact that the end user would get more value out of it isn't as important.
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grolt

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2015, 07:57:48 AM »
Some people like to say that R-Type was on SMS and therefore that somehow ruins it as a pack-in and how the TurboGrafx-16 really needed an exclusive arcade port pack-in like Altered Beast...


-which was alson on SMS. :roll:

Apples and oranges there.  Altered Beast is a SEGA property and had brand exclusivity - it wasn't on any competing consoles (in the US).  R-Type was previously released (in a pretty solid port, nonetheless) on an older, less powerful SEGA console.  In addition, Altered Beast on the SMS is a severely handcuffed game - it is missing multiple levels, single-player only and a huge step down in graphics.  If anything, having a far inferior version of Altered Beast on an older console only helped SEGA to tout the power of their new system.  Looking at R-Type, many praise Compile's work in porting the game to the SMS - it's the complete game (which the PC Engine can't even claim, at least on a HuCard) and even adds in a bonus level not found in the arcade or the TG-16 port.  There's no question the TG-16 version is graphically superior, but it's far less impressive of a jump than Altered Beast SMS to Genesis, and many would argue the SMS's FM sound is more appealing than the sound on the TG-16 version.  In my opinion, even if R-Type were a far better game on the TG-16 (which it is not), launching with a game found on the competition's system (that's 5 years older than your current flagship) just cannot happen.

Ignoring the entire Altered Beast/R-Type port debate, shooters, especially at that time, were far more niche than platformers or action games.  There's a higher barrier for entry, since those games are generally more difficult (and in R-Type's case, definitely) than your typical platformer or hack and slash game.  Plop a kid in front of Keith Courage and s/he could do okay, but R-Type would be over in a matter of seconds.  Even though it's an inferior game, Keith Courage would have more appeal to a broader audience than R-Type, which I'm sure weighed on NEC's decision.

The topic is about what pack-in the TurboGrafx-16 should have launched with. The PC Engine versions have nothing to do with this discussion, aside from the impact the game had for the PCE.

Most people in North America did not know that the Sega Master System even existed. The SMS also does not have FM sound. Altered Beast is a slow clunky game in any form. R-Type TG-16 is at least as much of an improvement over the SMS version and delivers much more  of an arcade experience.

I rented a Genesis with Altered Beast at launch and got one by the end of the year. Altered Beast looked poor in color and shading and created the impression for me that the Genesis was like the NES and had weird unique color limitations. Altered Beast was a newer arcade, but was just gimmicky and not the kind of long lasting hit that R-Type was, nor was it as influential (or at all). R-Type has a major place in gaming hostory. Altered Beast is only remembered for being the initial pack-in of a console that eventually became successful, right around the time they dropped Altered Beast as the pack-in.

Shooters weren't niche until late in the 16-bit generation. When the Genesis and TG-16 launched, shooters were just considered normal games. R-Type is only really difficult for people used to loose games and refuse to pay attention. At the time, R-Type was easier than many NES games.

I'm one of the few people who appreciate Keith Courage and it was part of what converted me from Genesis as it had the things I had really wanted in next gen games that I wasn't getting on Genesis. I totally get why they picked it and think it's much better as a game and pack-in than Altered Beast. From a business perspective, R-Type makes the most sense as a pack-in from what was available. Altered Beast got tired quick. It didn't work out well for the consumer. It's impact was simply luring in people to buy the console. R-Type was at least as attractive. The fact that the end user would get more value out of it isn't as important.

The SMS was a distant second compared to the NES, but people still knew of it.  Certainly SEGA as a brand through its successful arcade division had a lot more cache with US buyers at the time than NEC or Hudson, and if someone is buying a system other than an NES in 1989, they'd likely be informed enough to know what games are on the systems, since early adopters tend to be more savvy.  Someone who knew what R-Type was would very likely know it was not an NEC exclusive.

Technically, yes, the US SMS could not play FM, but Japanese SMS's and MarkIII's (with the FM adapter) could play them, and even the US carts of R-Type do contain the FM tracks.  I play the FM tracks on my US R-Type all the time on my SMS.  I was more mentioning the FM music to support my claim that the SMS R-Type is no slouch and in ways just as impressive as the TG-16 version.  If you've played both versions of Altered Beast and R-Type between the 8-bit and 16-bit consoles, there is no question that Altered Beast is a much bigger leap on the Genesis than R-Type was to the TG-16.  The SMS version of Altered Beast isn't even close to the full game!  There's virtually nothing missing from the SMS R-Type.

If you look at the best selling games of the previous generation, they are dominated by platformers or action games.  Mario, Ghosts n' Goblins, Metroid, Castlevania, DuckTales, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mega Man, Kirby's Adventure, Blaster Master, Commando, Adventure Island.  You have to go a long ways down best-selling lists to find your Xeviouses, 1942s or Gradiuses.

From a business sense platformers or action games are perfect for a new console.  They can be enjoyed by novice gamers and advanced gamers, and in Altered Beast's case, I'd argue that it getting tired quick is exactly what SEGA wanted.  People would appreciate the arcade port and the power of the system, but quickly finish or grow tired with the game and look to buy a new one, increasing software sales.  R-Type would have alienated younger gamers and would have kept hardcore gamers out of Toys R Us longer as they'd work their way through the game and its nuances.
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gheebee

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2015, 09:51:56 AM »
^ gheebee! I updated that post with a link to 1991? Bonk's Adventure free w/ system


NOTE: Sadly, sending away for a free game is NOT the same as a pack-in...I'm not sure the items I linked to are actual "pack-ins" vs. "wait several weeks/months for mail delivery"

Now that I see it I think I remember that free Bonk's Adventure ad from comic books ages ago, as well as others; I'll probably be trying to find the others on that site later on now. Sounds like neither was actually packed in but Bonk's Adventure seems as good as pack in since you didn't have to mail away for it; I wonder if it was in the regular retail box or just the hu card case like Keith Courage if you got it that way.

Dicer

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2015, 03:49:20 PM »
Some good stuff in here, and I picked a pack with DE simply for the fact it would have solved the 1 controller port issue...yes it's not a graphical powerhouse, but it's still a fantastic multiplayer game.

Bomberman wasn't readily available at the time (or was it) that would have been my other go to for a multiplayer pack in.


neopolss

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Re: What game would YOU have packed in with the Turbo?
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2015, 04:13:37 PM »
Bonk was probably the best overall choice, but the mail in portion wasnt a great move.  I was sold on the system with blazing lazers in my youth, nice graphics, sound, and music, and the difficulty wasnt over the top.  Keith courage was good for what it was, but something more like neutopia may have been a better game to promote.  The biggest challenge for the system was games that had good play length.  In an age when most games could be cleared in an hour or two, a game that offered a long playthrough was seen as progress from the slew of arcade ports.

Btw, who hasnt heard of rastan?  I restore arcade games, and almost half of the conversions from that time period are rastan kits.  It was an extremely popular title, and bizarre that it didnt see a home port.