Author Topic: CD-R brands and my SCD system  (Read 2350 times)

HailingTheThings

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2015, 07:00:45 PM »
Yeah I think that also maybe my Duo isn't calibrated well enough for CDRs. I'll look at getting one of that drive but I think I'll be stuck with only pressed CDs for a while.

*sadness*

You think your Duo would play burns if Playboy publicly announced that they were joking about "No more nudes?"

kosko99

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #61 on: October 15, 2015, 07:39:06 PM »
For my DUO-R I use the common Verbatim ones you can find on every place:


Just loads and sounds as if it was an original (tried to compare the same game original and burned).

Punch

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2015, 08:08:39 AM »
^^
I'm starting to believe that it's more of a matter of Laser calibration than anything else. I'll try to open mine up and mess with the pots.

Necromancer

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2015, 08:19:54 AM »
Pretty much.  There is a measurable difference in reflectivity between different brands, but even the best cdr ever made won't work in some machines without pot adjustments or a new laser.
U.S. Collection: 98% complete    157/161 titles

SignOfZeta

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2015, 09:11:18 AM »
I never pay attention to the brand and everything I've ever tried has worked fine, this is across the one IFU setup and the two Duos I've had...also Saturn, PlayStation, Dreamcast...

Occasionally there is a read error, not often, they skip easier if you bump the system, but I've never had any issues completing entire games on CD-R. I never even heard of people having problems with CD-Rs in game systems until people started talking about it here a few years back.

This thread has made me think I should stock up on good CD-Rs though. It's a format with not a lot of life left in it, and usually when that happens the choices start getting worse and worse and the format makes its way to total obselecence, like trying to find a decent blank VHS after 2000.

Koop

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #65 on: October 17, 2015, 05:18:11 PM »
For my DUO-R I use the common Verbatim ones you can find on every place:
http://www.pasadeotros.es/images/productos/cdr-verbatim-tarrina-25uds-52x-1.gif

Just loads and sounds as if it was an original (tried to compare the same game original and burned).


For what it's worth in my ASUS DVD burner drive (DRW-24B1ST) I got graphical glitches all day long using the same disks. This drive however could only go as low as 32x burn speed so I think it had a big impact.

I too am leaning towards burner quality as I cross referenced on some forums and was pointed in the direction of getting a better burner (funny enough they recommended the drives with an NEC chipset, go figure).

This is the drive I ordered
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H2GTXKS

I wanted a blu-ray player anyway, and if it doesn't work out I have flexibility with amazon for a return. I'll report back on any difference this drive will give me.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 11:54:03 AM by Koop »

Punch

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2015, 08:11:39 PM »
Now my laser is stuck. Thanks, Feena.

OK I'm forced to open this bitch up. Do I need an oscilloscope to calibrate the laser?

Punch

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2015, 08:14:41 PM »
This thread has made me think I should stock up on good CD-Rs though. It's a format with not a lot of life left in it, and usually when that happens the choices start getting worse and worse and the format makes its way to total obselecence, like trying to find a decent blank VHS after 2000.

That's actually a great idea. Even Taiyo Yuden left the market as far as I know, and I'm not sure if Mitsui will keep manufacturing discs, even the "Medical Grade" ones, so it's good to have a stock of good CDs. Unfortunately technology moves forward and old stuff is forgotten, we are just lucky that CDs are insanely expensive (imagine finding someone that can record or backup Laserdiscs nowadays).

kosko99

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2015, 11:18:55 PM »
For my DUO-R I use the common Verbatim ones you can find on every place:


Just loads and sounds as if it was an original (tried to compare the same game original and burned).


For what it's worth in my ASUS DVD burner drive (DRW-24B1ST) I got graphical glitches all day long using the same disks. This drive however could only go as low as 32x burn speed so I think it had a big impact.

I too am leaning towards burner quality as I cross referenced on some forums and was pointed in the direction of getting a better burner (funny enough they recommended the drives with an NEC chipset, go figure).

This is the drive I ordered
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H2GTXKS

I wanted a blu-ray player anyway, and if it doesn't work out I have flexibility with amazon for a return. I'll report back on any difference this drive will give me.


I can't remember now since it's been a while when I burned the last pce game... but it was between 16x and 24x minimum.

vacantplanets

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #69 on: October 20, 2015, 02:23:32 PM »
I'm not going to lie: I play CD-Rs. Often it's of games that I actually have real copies of. Often enough, it's not. Let's just say I'm doing my part to keep market prices low. No, don't thank me.

Anyway, in the past, I always used TDK CD-Rs with green bottoms burned at 8x. I wish I could tell you exactly what type of dye they use, but at the moment, I can't. Anyway, in my two Duo-RXs, these have always done fine. The systems never seemed to have more trouble reading them than they did real CDs, and the drives never sounded like they were struggling or anything. After hundreds of hours of CD-R gaming, I can't detect any signs of deterioration in either of them.

However, I recently got a Super CD system, and a different phenomenon with it was instantly obvious. When playing my TDK CD-Rs, the drive will occasionally emit a weird "thunk" like sound when it seeks something. Interestingly, this is not accompanied by a noticeable delay in reading the track, as sound tests from certain games seem to prove. However, it happens quite often. In my TDK CD-R burn of Dracula X, the "Op. 13" track in the sound test almost always causes this thunk to happen, especially if I play it after playing a different track later on in the CD.

So, maybe the Super CD system just doesn't like CD-Rs? That's what I was thinking. I was even resigning myself to never playing CD-Rs with this particular console. But then just for the heck of it, I burned a couple of other CD-Rs using my recently purchased, blue-bottom Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs at 16x...

The "thunk" sound doesn't happen with the Taiyo Yudens.

Now, maybe the cause is the 16x burning, or maybe it's that I'm using a different burner from when I burned the TDKs. Unless I buy some TDK CD-Rs again, I won't be able to properly isolate the problem. Anyway, this is a relief, as I can now go back to playing my favorite shooters with the audio tracks pre-amplified (if you haven't tried this, you should).

I do know that the effect of CD-Rs on these old systems is something that people around here worry about a lot. A popular theory is that CD-Rs cause the laser to work harder in order to focus and read the data. It sure seems reasonable to me that subjecting my SCD to 10,000 "thunks" might cause some real mechanical trouble. However, given the ease with which it's reading these Taiyo Yudens, I'm going to keep on playing CD-Rs. It just means I have to reburn some things.

If you have experienced trouble with CD-Rs on your system, and you aren't scared of ever trying them again, I really do recommend spending a few dollars and trying some different brands, and possibly even experimenting with different burners and burning speeds if you can. FWIW, it has always seemed to me, whether making CD-Rs for this system or for others, that the brand is the most important factor.

I guess that's all. I'm off to do some burning!


(I didn't read the entire thread.)

As others have said, the 650MB Mitsui, MAM-A or Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs are ideal. Also, here's something that I'm not sure if anyone mentioned--you actually don't want the gold ones because the silver ones perform better due to being more reflective. I found conflicting information on this so I e-mailed MAM-A and that's what I was told. The gold ones are for avoiding corrosion and having a long shelf life when storing/backing up data. If you can't find silver ones for whatever reason, the PhthaloCyanine gold ones are second best so avoid the green and blue (Cyanine and Azo) ones. Remember to check the speed rating too. Look for CD-Rs that are specifically made for low speed.

Here's another source: http://www.sincom.com.au/CD%20and%20DVD%20Media%20Info.pdf
"A gold or silver reflective layer is applied under a vacuum. This layer reflects the laser beam when reading the
CD. For economic reasons, silver has gradually replaced gold so as to reduce the cost of the end product as
well as increase the reflectivity.
Nevertheless, CD-R s with silver rather than gold layers have a shorter lifespan. "

I use my old laptop (from 2007) to burn my games at 4x with ImgBurn. I think all of the PCE drives are only 1x so you really want the lowest possible. Buy an old burner made for the low speed if you have to.

SamIAm, I'm dying to hear about amplifying the audio tracks! Can you elaborate?
I'd rather be playing guitar or listening to a PC Engine CD soundtrack.

Currently playing PC Engine, Saturn, and SNES MSU1.

SignOfZeta

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2015, 02:33:59 PM »
Obviously silver reflects more than gold. That's just...basic physics. Silver is colorless, therefore absorbs no specific spectrum. 2nd graders know this.

The question is if it matters or not in any relevant way. After all, CDs don't just act like a mirror. They need pits and lands both, ie: variation in reflectivity. If reflectivity of lands is increased, great, but if it reduces the opacity of pits all you did was move the operating band over a bit. The amplitude of the signal will be the same.

FYI; when I talked up there about how every system I've ever owned plays CD-are without problem, I didn't mention that most of my CD-Rs are the green/blue ones. :)

SamIAm

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #71 on: October 20, 2015, 02:36:18 PM »
SamIAm, I'm dying to hear about amplifying the audio tracks! Can you elaborate?


You're in luck, because I made up a little guide about this:
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=19673.0

Enjoy!

vacantplanets

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2015, 11:15:19 AM »
SamIAm, your guide is genius and I will be doing that to a lot of games! Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 12:23:08 PM by vacantplanets »
I'd rather be playing guitar or listening to a PC Engine CD soundtrack.

Currently playing PC Engine, Saturn, and SNES MSU1.

NightWolve

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2015, 11:52:31 AM »
Obviously silver reflects more than gold. That's just...basic physics. Silver is colorless, therefore absorbs no specific spectrum. 2nd graders know this.

The question is if it matters or not in any relevant way. After all, CDs don't just act like a mirror. They need pits and lands both, ie: variation in reflectivity. If reflectivity of lands is increased, great, but if it reduces the opacity of pits all you did was move the operating band over a bit. The amplitude of the signal will be the same.

FYI; when I talked up there about how every system I've ever owned plays CD-are without problem, I didn't mention that most of my CD-Rs are the green/blue ones. :)

"obviously" "2nd graders know this"

Wow, do you always put people down? Do you just have sand in your HuCard slot or do you always talk to everyone like that?

Heh. That's just SignOfZealotry, that's how he rolls. Not only that, he especially likes to throw pennies at the freshmen, so there's that too. ;) However, I do you think you're overreacting a bit.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 11:56:39 AM by NightWolve »

SamIAm

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Re: CD-R brands and my SCD system
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2015, 11:57:03 AM »
Obviously silver reflects more than gold. That's just...basic physics. Silver is colorless, therefore absorbs no specific spectrum. 2nd graders know this.


The thing is, this would only be applicable if the laser were using white light. What matters for a CD and any other optical medium is how well it reflects a single color, not all colors.

Wikipedia says that CD player laser wavelengths are 780nm. Since the spectrum visible to humans ends at about 750nm, it's pretty much impossible for us to judge how easy it is for CD lasers to read a given type of disc based on how we perceive its color alone. This probably has something to do with why those black Playstation discs work.

EDIT: Looking into this a little bit more, I found this chart:


Pretty interesting. Silver is more reflective as a whole in the general visible spectrum, but gold is slightly more reflective in the red and infrared spectrum.

Apparently, DVD players use 650nm lasers, and blu-ray players use 405nm. Therefore, a blu-ray player would have an easier time reading a silver disc, while DVD and CD players have a slightly easier time reading gold. Perhaps the reason why the MAM-A representative told vacantplanets that silver is better is because it's a good catch-all.

Of course, we're only talking about pure elements here. Who knows what happens when you start getting into all the different chemical compounds out there?

Meanwhile, it's ironic that aluminum doesn't look very good on that chart. I suppose that the reason why pressed aluminum discs read better is because of better contrast between pits and better uniformity in the way the pits are strewn about the disc.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 02:53:37 PM by SamIAm »